UK National Statistics - Internet connectivity

National Statistics has published its monthly report showing the status of
the ISP market.

Apartantly, over 24.3% of internet users now have a "permanent
connection"/broadband... with dial-up accounts showing an annual decrease of
5.7%

http://www.nationalstatistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/inc0404.pdf

Regards
Sunil

Sunil Sood wrote:
> National Statistics has published its monthly report showing the status of
> the ISP market.
>
> Apartantly, over 24.3% of internet users now have a "permanent
> connection"/broadband... with dial-up accounts showing an annual decrease of
> 5.7%
>
> http://www.nationalstatistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/inc0404.pdf

Having been on the receiving end of one of their surveys, I would not
believe a word they say, sorry.

--
_ Rev. Adrian Kennard, Andrews & Arnold Ltd / AAISP
(_) _| _ . _ _ Broadband, fixed IPs, no min term http://adsl.ms/
( )(_|( |(_|| ) Asterisk VoIP based PABXs, SNOM200 http://aa.gg/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bond two ADSL lines? http://www.FireBrick.info/

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:14:44 +0100, Rev Adrian Kennard <`@o.gg> wrote:

| Sunil Sood wrote:
| > National Statistics has published its monthly report showing the status of
| > the ISP market.
| >
| > Apartantly, over 24.3% of internet users now have a "permanent
| > connection"/broadband... with dial-up accounts showing an annual decrease of
| > 5.7%
| >
| > http://www.nationalstatistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/inc0404.pdf
|
| Having been on the receiving end of one of their surveys, I would not
| believe a word they say, sorry.

If one looks at the month by month figures themselves, these are internally
consistent and only show wild swings, as one could reasonably expect, at
Christmas. Were ISPs to be telling outright lies in answer to the
questions in the surveys wild swings would occur. I therefore conclude
that ISPs, as Adrian suggests, may well not give *totally* correct answers,
but generally do the best they can. IMO the surveys give generally good
results, but are not as accurate as statistical theory may suggest.

It is clearly a Good Idea that the Government, and others, know roughly
what is happening in specific markets to facilitate planning. Perhaps
Adrian cold suggest anothher method of collecting this data.

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> Sick of Marketing SMS
Register your: real name, mobile number, snail mail address,
with Telephone Preference Service, (E-Mail Removed).
IME it *works* :-)

In MsgID<408770e5$0$39891$(E-Mail Removed)> within
uk.net.providers, 'Rev Adrian Kennard' wrote:

>> Apartantly, over 24.3% of internet users now have a "permanent
>> connection"/broadband... with dial-up accounts showing an annual decrease of
>> 5.7%
>>
>> http://www.nationalstatistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/inc0404.pdf
>
>Having been on the receiving end of one of their surveys, I would not
>believe a word they say, sorry.

Details of why?

--
Dave Johnson - (E-Mail Removed)

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:17:29 +0100, Dave J <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

| In MsgID<408770e5$0$39891$(E-Mail Removed)> within
| uk.net.providers, 'Rev Adrian Kennard' wrote:
|
| >> Apartantly, over 24.3% of internet users now have a "permanent
| >> connection"/broadband... with dial-up accounts showing an annual decrease of
| >> 5.7%
| >>
| >> http://www.nationalstatistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/inc0404.pdf
| >
| >Having been on the receiving end of one of their surveys, I would not
| >believe a word they say, sorry.
|
| Details of why?

Surveys are the bane of Company owners/directors/managers lives ATM.
As a result of one which took 1/2 hr, my reply is "I have given up
surveys". Except for ?official? ones.

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
Sick and tired of Junk Snail Mail? Register your family
surname and address with www.mpsonline.org.uk
IME it works :-)

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:14:44 +0100, Rev Adrian Kennard
<`@o.gg> wrote:

> Sunil Sood wrote:
>> National Statistics has published its monthly report showing the status of
>> the ISP market.
>>
>> Apartantly, over 24.3% of internet users now have a "permanent
>> connection"/broadband... with dial-up accounts showing an annual decrease of
>> 5.7%
>>
>> http://www.nationalstatistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/inc0404.pdf
>
> Having been on the receiving end of one of their surveys, I would not
> believe a word they say, sorry.

If they are the same quality as the MORI poll which says that 80% of
people want a national ID card, I wouldn't believe them either.

Or the polls which say that the average houshold only has 6 books in it
(just the SF fans I know of would push that average way above that, and
there are plenty of non-SF readers with equally large collections).

The census is likely to be reasonably accurate (modulo people putting
intentionally false information). Any poll which surveys well under a
thousandth of the population is automatically suspect...

Chris C

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
>...
> If one looks at the month by month figures themselves, these are internally
> consistent and only show wild swings, as one could reasonably expect, at
> Christmas. Were ISPs to be telling outright lies in answer to the
> questions in the surveys wild swings would occur. I therefore conclude
> that ISPs, as Adrian suggests, may well not give *totally* correct answers,
> but generally do the best they can. IMO the surveys give generally good
> results, but are not as accurate as statistical theory may suggest.
>
> It is clearly a Good Idea that the Government, and others, know roughly
> what is happening in specific markets to facilitate planning. Perhaps
> Adrian cold suggest anothher method of collecting this data.

I am not sure surveys, as such, are a bad idea. In practice it would be
better to try and collect stats that an ISP can easily automate, and
perhaps collect the stats in an automated way (if we have to have thsi
in the first place). It would also help to collect stats in a way that
avoids duplication in the first place.

The problem with the survey (which, incidentally they don't include us
in any more!) was that it asked questions which often made no sense,
contradicted themselves, and were not the most appropriate of questions
anyway. They also seemed to lack any concept of normal statistical
methods (and I only did O-level stats).

They failed to define, even when challenged, what they meant by terms
like "dialup" and "permanent connection". They failed completely to
sensibly define "virtual ISP" which was a term key to the whole survey.

We made no differenciation as to whether someone is residential or
business, but they had no way to take stats that were not broken down as
residential or business. They said to "estimate" the ratio but would not
accept my estimate of 50%+/-50%! They also failed to understand that
someone may use a service for both, and indeed the terms "residential"
and "business" are not mutually exclusive or fully inclusive anyway.

Apparently return of the survey was a legal requirement, but they failed
to answer if completion of the survey was a legal requirement (the
wording was odd which made be suspicious that the requirement may simply
be to return it!).

There were many other stupidities in the whole thing. I am concerned
that if the survey was typical of their stats collection then their
results may be dubious as best in other areas too.

All IMHO, of course.

--
_ Rev. Adrian Kennard, Andrews & Arnold Ltd / AAISP
(_) _| _ . _ _ Broadband, fixed IPs, no min term http://adsl.ms/
( )(_|( |(_|| ) Asterisk VoIP based PABXs, SNOM200 http://aa.gg/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bond two ADSL lines? http://www.FireBrick.info/

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:17:29 +0100, Dave J <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> | In MsgID<408770e5$0$39891$(E-Mail Removed)> within
> | uk.net.providers, 'Rev Adrian Kennard' wrote:
> |
> | >> Apartantly, over 24.3% of internet users now have a "permanent
> | >> connection"/broadband... with dial-up accounts showing an annual decrease of
> | >> 5.7%
> | >>
> | >> http://www.nationalstatistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/inc0404.pdf
> | >
> | >Having been on the receiving end of one of their surveys, I would not
> | >believe a word they say, sorry.
> |
> | Details of why?
>
> Surveys are the bane of Company owners/directors/managers lives ATM.
> As a result of one which took 1/2 hr, my reply is "I have given up
> surveys". Except for ?official? ones.

If you are bloddy minded enough, then the official ones give up on you <-:

--
_ Rev. Adrian Kennard, Andrews & Arnold Ltd / AAISP
(_) _| _ . _ _ Broadband, fixed IPs, no min term http://adsl.ms/
( )(_|( |(_|| ) Asterisk VoIP based PABXs, SNOM200 http://aa.gg/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bond two ADSL lines? http://www.FireBrick.info/

In MsgID<40880f7e$0$39890$(E-Mail Removed)> within
uk.net.providers, 'Rev Adrian Kennard' wrote:

>> It is clearly a Good Idea that the Government, and others, know roughly
>> what is happening in specific markets to facilitate planning. Perhaps
>> Adrian cold suggest anothher method of collecting this data.
>
>I am not sure surveys, as such, are a bad idea. In practice it would be
>better to try and collect stats that an ISP can easily automate, and
>perhaps collect the stats in an automated way (if we have to have thsi
>in the first place). It would also help to collect stats in a way that
>avoids duplication in the first place.

Standardised automated data collection helps greatly with consistency
too, an important factor when it comes to the processing of the
information.

--
Dave Johnson - (E-Mail Removed)

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:31:25 +0100, Rev Adrian Kennard <`@o.gg> wrote:

| Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| >...
| > If one looks at the month by month figures themselves, these are internally
| > consistent and only show wild swings, as one could reasonably expect, at
| > Christmas. Were ISPs to be telling outright lies in answer to the
| > questions in the surveys wild swings would occur. I therefore conclude
| > that ISPs, as Adrian suggests, may well not give *totally* correct answers,
| > but generally do the best they can. IMO the surveys give generally good
| > results, but are not as accurate as statistical theory may suggest.
| >
| > It is clearly a Good Idea that the Government, and others, know roughly
| > what is happening in specific markets to facilitate planning. Perhaps
| > Adrian cold suggest anothher method of collecting this data.
|
| I am not sure surveys, as such, are a bad idea. In practice it would be
| better to try and collect stats that an ISP can easily automate, and
| perhaps collect the stats in an automated way (if we have to have thsi
| in the first place). It would also help to collect stats in a way that
| avoids duplication in the first place.
|
| The problem with the survey (which, incidentally they don't include us
| in any more!) was that it asked questions which often made no sense,
| contradicted themselves, and were not the most appropriate of questions
| anyway. They also seemed to lack any concept of normal statistical
| methods (and I only did O-level stats).
|
| They failed to define, even when challenged, what they meant by terms
| like "dialup" and "permanent connection". They failed completely to
| sensibly define "virtual ISP" which was a term key to the whole survey.
|
| We made no differenciation as to whether someone is residential or
| business, but they had no way to take stats that were not broken down as
| residential or business. They said to "estimate" the ratio but would not
| accept my estimate of 50%+/-50%! They also failed to understand that
| someone may use a service for both, and indeed the terms "residential"
| and "business" are not mutually exclusive or fully inclusive anyway.
|
| Apparently return of the survey was a legal requirement, but they failed
| to answer if completion of the survey was a legal requirement (the
| wording was odd which made be suspicious that the requirement may simply
| be to return it!).
|
| There were many other stupidities in the whole thing. I am concerned
| that if the survey was typical of their stats collection then their
| results may be dubious as best in other areas too.
|
| All IMHO, of course.

Computing people and political people look at the world in different ways.
Computing people expect questions to be specific and to have exact answers.
Political people hope to glean some useful indications, and are probably
aware that the results produced are inaccurate.

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
Sick and tired of Junk Snail Mail? Register your family
surname and address with www.mpsonline.org.uk
IME it works :-)