Two MN-700s

Here's what I am trying to do:

One MN-700 (192.168.1.1) is in my office, connected to my cable modem.
I am trying to add a second MN-700 (192.168.1.2) in my bedroom, to
extend the range of my network (I have a computer, an Internet radio,
and an Xbox 360 in my bedroom). There is NO Ethernet cable running
between the two MN-700s, nor can there be. (So don't even suggest it.)

Is it possible for the second MN-700 to talk to the first MN-700,
assuming that all settings are set up correctly (SSID, channel, WEP
key, etc.)? I've tried but I cannot get the second MN-700 to talk to
the first one.

Thanks!
Clay Johanson

Unfortunately, without an ethernet cable connection, the two MN700 will not
'talk' to each other.

--
Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP

Find out about the MS MVP Program -
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx

"Clay Johanson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> Here's what I am trying to do:
>
> One MN-700 (192.168.1.1) is in my office, connected to my cable modem.
> I am trying to add a second MN-700 (192.168.1.2) in my bedroom, to
> extend the range of my network (I have a computer, an Internet radio,
> and an Xbox 360 in my bedroom). There is NO Ethernet cable running
> between the two MN-700s, nor can there be. (So don't even suggest it.)
>
> Is it possible for the second MN-700 to talk to the first MN-700,
> assuming that all settings are set up correctly (SSID, channel, WEP
> key, etc.)? I've tried but I cannot get the second MN-700 to talk to
> the first one.
>
> Thanks!
> Clay Johanson
>

Well, that sucks.

As a former Microsoft employee, I'm not only disappointed that they
have seemingly gotten out of the networking business (no new products,
no new firmware updates, etc.), but also that they failed to add such
basic functionality as allowing two WIRELESS routers to talk to each
other wirelessly. It REALLY sucks that the documentation implies that
this is possible to do, which is the reason I bought a second MN-700 in
the first place. I quote from the Microsoft Broadband Network Utility
Help:

"If you already have a base station, router, or gateway connected to
your network and that device provides a network address translation
(NAT) service, you may want to set the Microsoft Wireless Base Station
(MN-500) to bridging mode. In bridging mode, the base station simply
EXTENDS THE RANGE OF AN EXISTING WIRELESS NETWORK [my emphasis] or
connects a wireless network to a wired network."

Since when does a WIRELESS network require WIRES? Do me a favor and
tell the MSBBN folks, or whoever your contact at Microsoft is, to get
off their asses and add wireless bridging capability to the MN-700 and
MN-500.

A wireless network requires wires when you're changing a wireless router
into an access point. You still have wireless, but the hardware was never
designed to handle both incoming and outgoing wireless at the same time. As
for Microsoft getting out of the Broadband Networking line, that was done
nearly two years ago.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"Clay Johanson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> Well, that sucks.
>
> As a former Microsoft employee, I'm not only disappointed that they
> have seemingly gotten out of the networking business (no new products,
> no new firmware updates, etc.), but also that they failed to add such
> basic functionality as allowing two WIRELESS routers to talk to each
> other wirelessly. It REALLY sucks that the documentation implies that
> this is possible to do, which is the reason I bought a second MN-700 in
> the first place. I quote from the Microsoft Broadband Network Utility
> Help:
>
> "If you already have a base station, router, or gateway connected to
> your network and that device provides a network address translation
> (NAT) service, you may want to set the Microsoft Wireless Base Station
> (MN-500) to bridging mode. In bridging mode, the base station simply
> EXTENDS THE RANGE OF AN EXISTING WIRELESS NETWORK [my emphasis] or
> connects a wireless network to a wired network."
>
> Since when does a WIRELESS network require WIRES? Do me a favor and
> tell the MSBBN folks, or whoever your contact at Microsoft is, to get
> off their asses and add wireless bridging capability to the MN-700 and
> MN-500.
>

"A wireless network requires wires when you're changing a wireless
router into an access point."

An oxymoronic distinction which is COMPLETELY missing both from the
Help and from any Microsoft Knowledge Base article on the subject. Why
couldn't someone, somewhere (besides here in this newsgroup) actually
SAY that in the KB or in the documentation for the product? "You cannot
wirelessly connect two MN-700s to each other. An Ethernet cable MUST be
used when one MN-700 is acting as an Access Point."

"You still have wireless, but the hardware was never designed to handle
both incoming and outgoing wireless at the same time."

Not to quibble, but it DOES handle both incoming and outgoing wireless
at the same time. If it didn't, you wouldn't be able to both send AND
receive packets when using a WiFi-connected computer or other device.
Apparently, the hardware was never designed to allow two MN-700s to
talk to each other... that's unfortunate, but it seems technically
possible for it to work if they'd just update the firmware. Other
companies' routers can talk to each other wirelessly, so why can't
Microsoft's? Sorry, but I find this lack of functionality incredibly
lame.

And sorry if I seem difficult, but I'm finding the MN-700 to be
incredibly inflexible when it comes to making it work the way it should.

As I said previously, Microsoft dumped the product line nearly two years
ago, and the department there has been disbanded. There will be nothing
else from them for the products.

You are correct, the signals are wireless, however there is a distinction
between acting as a router (wired to a broadband connection) and acting as a
router AND access point at the same time. The MN-700 was never designed to
do that.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"Clay Johanson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
> "A wireless network requires wires when you're changing a wireless
> router into an access point."
>
> An oxymoronic distinction which is COMPLETELY missing both from the
> Help and from any Microsoft Knowledge Base article on the subject. Why
> couldn't someone, somewhere (besides here in this newsgroup) actually
> SAY that in the KB or in the documentation for the product? "You cannot
> wirelessly connect two MN-700s to each other. An Ethernet cable MUST be
> used when one MN-700 is acting as an Access Point."
>
> "You still have wireless, but the hardware was never designed to handle
> both incoming and outgoing wireless at the same time."
>
> Not to quibble, but it DOES handle both incoming and outgoing wireless
> at the same time. If it didn't, you wouldn't be able to both send AND
> receive packets when using a WiFi-connected computer or other device.
> Apparently, the hardware was never designed to allow two MN-700s to
> talk to each other... that's unfortunate, but it seems technically
> possible for it to work if they'd just update the firmware. Other
> companies' routers can talk to each other wirelessly, so why can't
> Microsoft's? Sorry, but I find this lack of functionality incredibly
> lame.
>
> And sorry if I seem difficult, but I'm finding the MN-700 to be
> incredibly inflexible when it comes to making it work the way it should.
>

If the MN700 doesn't do it for you, I'd suggest you get a router that is
more current in nature with the features that you want.

There won't be any updates coming for the MN700, as there is no MSBBN team
anymore.

--
Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP

Find out about the MS MVP Program -
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx

"Clay Johanson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
> "A wireless network requires wires when you're changing a wireless
> router into an access point."
>
> An oxymoronic distinction which is COMPLETELY missing both from the
> Help and from any Microsoft Knowledge Base article on the subject. Why
> couldn't someone, somewhere (besides here in this newsgroup) actually
> SAY that in the KB or in the documentation for the product? "You cannot
> wirelessly connect two MN-700s to each other. An Ethernet cable MUST be
> used when one MN-700 is acting as an Access Point."
>
> "You still have wireless, but the hardware was never designed to handle
> both incoming and outgoing wireless at the same time."
>
> Not to quibble, but it DOES handle both incoming and outgoing wireless
> at the same time. If it didn't, you wouldn't be able to both send AND
> receive packets when using a WiFi-connected computer or other device.
> Apparently, the hardware was never designed to allow two MN-700s to
> talk to each other... that's unfortunate, but it seems technically
> possible for it to work if they'd just update the firmware. Other
> companies' routers can talk to each other wirelessly, so why can't
> Microsoft's? Sorry, but I find this lack of functionality incredibly
> lame.
>
> And sorry if I seem difficult, but I'm finding the MN-700 to be
> incredibly inflexible when it comes to making it work the way it should.
>

the other vendors that offer extended functionality do so via the WDS
system which requires you to enter the Mac addresses of the remote
device in a configuration field on each device. many of these vendors
support both repeaters and access point client mode.

it's pretty obvious that MS designed the MN-700 as an entry level
device and considered this additional functionality to complex for
their target market (and for their support staff).

as others have replied, MS has left the networking business and no
longer has staff that can or will write firmware upgrades. the MN-700
was a first generation G router. it could not get certified with WPA
and in fact their are notes that running WPA produces much slower
speeds than are acceptable.

donate your MN-700 to a school or boys/girls club or some local non
profit org, get a receipt for tax purposes and look for something that
better meets your needs.


On 11 Mar 2006 16:28:47 -0800, "Clay Johanson"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> that's unfortunate, but it seems technically
>possible for it to work if they'd just update the firmware. Other
>companies' routers can talk to each other wirelessly, so why can't
>Microsoft's? Sorry, but I find this lack of functionality incredibly
>lame.
--

Barb Bowman
MS Windows-MVP
Expert Zone Columnist
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/

"Chris H." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> As I said previously, Microsoft dumped the product line nearly two years
> ago, and the department there has been disbanded. There will be nothing
> else from them for the products.


I bet the reason they dumped the product line is because the need for
technical support was huge and costly.

There are so many variables involved in setting up a wireless network and so
many configuration variables that I'm betting that the tech support issues
were affecting the bottom line.

The fact that the first version of the MN-700 drivers were essentially
flawed didn't help either.

Oh well, my MN-700 is still viable for my needs, so I'm OK for a while.

Ed Chait

8-) I don't believe they wanted to get involved in WPA2 encryption. My
MN-700, the original Xbox adapter and a couple laptop wireless devices are
still working fine here, too. 8-)
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"Ed Chait" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:8XxRf.3912$(E-Mail Removed) ink.net...
>
> "Chris H." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> As I said previously, Microsoft dumped the product line nearly two years
>> ago, and the department there has been disbanded. There will be nothing
>> else from them for the products.
>
>
> I bet the reason they dumped the product line is because the need for
> technical support was huge and costly.
>
> There are so many variables involved in setting up a wireless network and
> so many configuration variables that I'm betting that the tech support
> issues were affecting the bottom line.
>
> The fact that the first version of the MN-700 drivers were essentially
> flawed didn't help either.
>
> Oh well, my MN-700 is still viable for my needs, so I'm OK for a while.
>
> Ed Chait
>