Two ADSL lines - only one works at a time!

I've got two phone lines, both enter the house down the same cable from the BT
pole.

Until recently I only had ADSL on one of the lines, and everything worked fine.
I've now got ADSL on the other line, but I've found that I can only use one at a
time!

The new ADSL seems to work fine provided the router on the other line is
switched off! As soon as I switch it on, ADSL drops on the other line! And yes
they are definitely plugged into separate phone lines. Voice is fine on both
lines.

Any ideas? I've tried the test socket but it's the same there.

The two phone lines are with different telcos, so I guess it could turn into a
pissing contest...

TIA,

Andy

"Andy Pandy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I've got two phone lines, both enter the house down the same cable from
> the BT
> pole.
>
> Until recently I only had ADSL on one of the lines, and everything worked
> fine.
> I've now got ADSL on the other line, but I've found that I can only use
> one at a
> time!
>
> The new ADSL seems to work fine provided the router on the other line is
> switched off! As soon as I switch it on, ADSL drops on the other line! And
> yes
> they are definitely plugged into separate phone lines. Voice is fine on
> both
> lines.
>
> Any ideas? I've tried the test socket but it's the same there.
>
> The two phone lines are with different telcos, so I guess it could turn
> into a
> pissing contest...
>

But who provides the ADSL services? Are they different ISPs, or the same?

Test both from their respective master sockets, and report any failures to
the (respective) ISPs. If the ISPs are competent they will get BT to to
investigate.

(I have two separate phone lines - both with BT - each with a different
ISP - Zen and Demon - and both work fine. However whenever a BT technician
is seen working in the village he can usually break both our phone
services - along with those of about 20 other people - so the concept of
having two phone lines and two ISPs hasn't actually improved the overall
reliability!)
--
Graham J

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Andy Pandy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>The new ADSL seems to work fine provided the router on the other line is
>switched off! As soon as I switch it on, ADSL drops on the other line! And yes
>they are definitely plugged into separate phone lines.

You don't have both routers configured for the same account, do you?

-- Richard
--
Please remember to mention me / in tapes you leave behind.

In uk.telecom.broadband, on Thu, 10 Jul 2008 22:47:36, Andy Pandy wrote:

>I've got two phone lines, both enter the house down the same cable from
>the BT pole.
>
>Until recently I only had ADSL on one of the lines, and everything
>worked fine. I've now got ADSL on the other line, but I've found that I
>can only use one at a time!

I have two phone lines, with ADSL on both, all with different suppliers.
No problems. Both NTE5's are side by side, they both have filtered
faceplates.

>The new ADSL seems to work fine provided the router on the other line
>is
>switched off! As soon as I switch it on, ADSL drops on the other line!
>And yes
>they are definitely plugged into separate phone lines. Voice is fine on
>both lines.
>
>Any ideas? I've tried the test socket but it's the same there.
>
>The two phone lines are with different telcos, so I guess it could turn
>into a pissing contest...

The pertinent point here is that a router loses sync when another router
is turned on and vice versa - could be noisy power supplies. Try
separating the routers and their supplies as far apart as possible.

--
Jim Crowther

"Graham J" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:48768b77$0$26082$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > I've got two phone lines, both enter the house down the same cable from
> > the BT
> > pole.
> >
> > Until recently I only had ADSL on one of the lines, and everything worked
> > fine.
> > I've now got ADSL on the other line, but I've found that I can only use
> > one at a
> > time!
> >
> > The new ADSL seems to work fine provided the router on the other line is
> > switched off! As soon as I switch it on, ADSL drops on the other line! And
> > yes
> > they are definitely plugged into separate phone lines. Voice is fine on
> > both
> > lines.
> >
> > Any ideas? I've tried the test socket but it's the same there.
> >
> > The two phone lines are with different telcos, so I guess it could turn
> > into a
> > pissing contest...
> >
>
> But who provides the ADSL services? Are they different ISPs, or the same?

Different, I think. One's a company line, paid for by work so haven't got a clue
who it is. The other (new one) is TalkTalk.

> Test both from their respective master sockets, and report any failures to
> the (respective) ISPs. If the ISPs are competent they will get BT to to
> investigate.

On the company line (the one I've had ADSL for ages on) I never have a problem.

On the TT line I unplugged the bottom faceplate from the master socket and
plugged into the test socket and it makes no difference.

However, I'm not entirely sure this actually is the master socket. It looks like
one, and has a test socket, but there are no capacitors in it. And when I take
the bottom half of the faceplate off, most of the extensions in the house still
work. So clearly the extension wiring is not isolated, so there could be a fault
in the extension wiring.

When the company line was put in many years ago (before ADSL was even
available), I got a new double socket, I opened this and it has capacitors for
both lines, but no test socket. I'm not sure whether this is actually the
master socket for both lines?

> (I have two separate phone lines - both with BT - each with a different
> ISP - Zen and Demon - and both work fine. However whenever a BT technician
> is seen working in the village he can usually break both our phone
> services - along with those of about 20 other people - so the concept of
> having two phone lines and two ISPs hasn't actually improved the overall
> reliability!)

I wasn't after resilience - just the separation of work use and personal use.
The kids are getting into high bandwidth applications and work might start
whinging if too many GB are downloaded per month on the work line!

--
Andy

"Richard Tobin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:g563i5$1tpt$(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Andy Pandy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >The new ADSL seems to work fine provided the router on the other line is
> >switched off! As soon as I switch it on, ADSL drops on the other line! And
yes
> >they are definitely plugged into separate phone lines.
>
> You don't have both routers configured for the same account, do you?

Nope - completely different.

--
Andy

"Jim Crowther" <Don'(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) nvalid...
> >I've got two phone lines, both enter the house down the same cable from
> >the BT pole.
> >
> >Until recently I only had ADSL on one of the lines, and everything
> >worked fine. I've now got ADSL on the other line, but I've found that I
> >can only use one at a time!
>
> I have two phone lines, with ADSL on both, all with different suppliers.
> No problems. Both NTE5's are side by side, they both have filtered
> faceplates.

I have an NTE5 for one of the lines but not the other. I'm not even sure the
NTE5 socket still is the master (it would have been originally, but may have
changed when the second lines was put in - as per my other post).

> >The new ADSL seems to work fine provided the router on the other line
> >is
> >switched off! As soon as I switch it on, ADSL drops on the other line!
> >And yes
> >they are definitely plugged into separate phone lines. Voice is fine on
> >both lines.
> >
> >Any ideas? I've tried the test socket but it's the same there.
> >
> >The two phone lines are with different telcos, so I guess it could turn
> >into a pissing contest...
>
> The pertinent point here is that a router loses sync when another router
> is turned on and vice versa - could be noisy power supplies. Try
> separating the routers and their supplies as far apart as possible.

They're in different rooms, in fact they're even on different rings.

However I have a lot of double sockets for the phone wiring. But both work fine
independantly for voice (can't hear any cross-talk).

--
Andy

"Andy Pandy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Graham J" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:48768b77$0$26082$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> > I've got two phone lines, both enter the house down the same cable from
>> > the BT
>> > pole.
>> >
>> > Until recently I only had ADSL on one of the lines, and everything
>> > worked
>> > fine.
>> > I've now got ADSL on the other line, but I've found that I can only use
>> > one at a
>> > time!
>> >
>> > The new ADSL seems to work fine provided the router on the other line
>> > is
>> > switched off! As soon as I switch it on, ADSL drops on the other line!
>> > And
>> > yes
>> > they are definitely plugged into separate phone lines. Voice is fine on
>> > both
>> > lines.
>> >
>> > Any ideas? I've tried the test socket but it's the same there.
>> >
>> > The two phone lines are with different telcos, so I guess it could turn
>> > into a
>> > pissing contest...
>> >
>>
>> But who provides the ADSL services? Are they different ISPs, or the
>> same?
>
> Different, I think. One's a company line, paid for by work so haven't got
> a clue
> who it is. The other (new one) is TalkTalk.
>
>> Test both from their respective master sockets, and report any failures
>> to
>> the (respective) ISPs. If the ISPs are competent they will get BT to to
>> investigate.
>
> On the company line (the one I've had ADSL for ages on) I never have a
> problem.
>
> On the TT line I unplugged the bottom faceplate from the master socket and
> plugged into the test socket and it makes no difference.
>
> However, I'm not entirely sure this actually is the master socket. It
> looks like
> one, and has a test socket, but there are no capacitors in it. And when I
> take
> the bottom half of the faceplate off, most of the extensions in the house
> still
> work. So clearly the extension wiring is not isolated, so there could be a
> fault
> in the extension wiring.

Once you have taken off the bottom half of the faceplate, ONLY the test
socket should work - certainly no other extensions.

> When the company line was put in many years ago (before ADSL was even
> available), I got a new double socket, I opened this and it has capacitors
> for
> both lines, but no test socket. I'm not sure whether this is actually the
> master socket for both lines?

It would appear that this is the master socket for both lines. Each line
should have a capacitor and resistor (See:
http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wi...telephone.html) the
purpose of which is twofold. (1) The capacitor carries the ring current to
the "bell wire" - but on most phones the bell wire is not actually used.
(2) BT's test equipment measures the impedance of the pair at the exchange.
If value matches that of the R and C the tester reports that the line to the
customer's premises is intact, otherwise it will suggest there is a fault.
There should also be a surge suppressor.

You should replace this double socket with two separate NTE5 master sockets
wired so that ONLY the incoming pair terminates on the screw terminals.
Then connect all the extension wiring to the removeable faceplate. Ideally,
use a faceplate filter so that all the extension phones are filtered and the
clean ADSL signal appears on the RJ45 socket; and connect your router to
that socket. BT will do this for you at a price. In theory it is their
property and you should not do the work yourself.

Then repeat the tests. If you still see failures, report exactly what
happens, in the form:
Power off both routers
Power on Line A router
Line A router reports ADSL sync and can make/receive phone calls without
problem
Power up line B router: does A retain sync? does B retain sync?
Repeat test in reverse order, ie power off both, power on B, then A, etc...

--
Graham J

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 22:47:36 +0100, "Andy Pandy"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I've got two phone lines, both enter the house down the same cable from the BT
>pole.


I have the same to my house. One line is BT (isp adsl24) and one is
TalkTalk. If there's a blip in the power, the router connected to the
BT line will resync in a few seconds while the TalkTalk router will
take several hours. Last time it was four hours and the time before
that ten hours but eventually it synched and then everything works as
expected and can remain okay for weeks.

It is still something I am trying to resolve with TalkTalk. In fact
one of their support people phoned me up today to say they are looking
into it.


Jim.

"Graham J" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:4877c92e$0$2929$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > However, I'm not entirely sure this actually is the master socket. It
> > looks like
> > one, and has a test socket, but there are no capacitors in it. And when I
> > take
> > the bottom half of the faceplate off, most of the extensions in the house
> > still
> > work. So clearly the extension wiring is not isolated, so there could be a
> > fault
> > in the extension wiring.
>
> Once you have taken off the bottom half of the faceplate, ONLY the test
> socket should work - certainly no other extensions.

Looking at the wiring more closely, it would appear that the cable from the
outside (ie both lines) goes into a small rectangular box (a choc block?), this
has two cables out of it - one goes onto an small ancient box (has GPO on it!),
and then this goes onto the NTE5. The other cable from the choc block goes onto
the double socket with the capacitors.

Now, this work was must have been done by BT when I moved in - since that's when
the company line and the double socket (new master?) was put in. So BT have
wired the new master socket direct off the choc block while leaving the old
master socket also directly wired off it!

> > When the company line was put in many years ago (before ADSL was even
> > available), I got a new double socket, I opened this and it has capacitors
> > for
> > both lines, but no test socket. I'm not sure whether this is actually the
> > master socket for both lines?
>
> It would appear that this is the master socket for both lines. Each line
> should have a capacitor and resistor (See:
> http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wi...telephone.html) the
> purpose of which is twofold. (1) The capacitor carries the ring current to
> the "bell wire" - but on most phones the bell wire is not actually used.
> (2) BT's test equipment measures the impedance of the pair at the exchange.
> If value matches that of the R and C the tester reports that the line to the
> customer's premises is intact, otherwise it will suggest there is a fault.
> There should also be a surge suppressor.
>
> You should replace this double socket with two separate NTE5 master sockets
> wired so that ONLY the incoming pair terminates on the screw terminals.
> Then connect all the extension wiring to the removeable faceplate. Ideally,
> use a faceplate filter so that all the extension phones are filtered and the
> clean ADSL signal appears on the RJ45 socket; and connect your router to
> that socket. BT will do this for you at a price. In theory it is their
> property and you should not do the work yourself.

I don't really trust myself to do it anyway - and it'll be a lot of rewiring. It
seems BT made this mess, but how will things stand with the new telcos sorting
it out?

Thanks.

--
Andy