Was told by DSL tech support that

Hi,

This morning, I did sbc yahoo DSL installation at family member's
house using a modem router combo unit from sbc. Brand is 2WIRE; model
is 1800HG Gateway.

With the old DSL service, the same unit modem+router combo unit was
used but I didn't do the setup. Current DSL was initially set up with a
"speed stream" modem unit bought from sbc DSL. (My brother just buys
things instead of hcekcign what's at home.)

During set up with this 2WIRE unit, I didn't do any security thing and
I am wondering whether I should after realizing that that 2WIRE unit
was wiresless according to the tech guy. Right now, network cable is
used to connect to the only desktop.

Hoe excatly is DSL service different from Comcast as far as others
accesing to the wireless network to use the internet. Would the user
need the DSL installer installed inhis/her PC(laptop)?

"amanda" <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>This morning, I did sbc yahoo DSL installation at family member's
>house using a modem router combo unit from sbc. Brand is 2WIRE; model
>is 1800HG Gateway.

Good unit.

>With the old DSL service, the same unit modem+router combo unit was
>used but I didn't do the setup. Current DSL was initially set up with a
>"speed stream" modem unit bought from sbc DSL. (My brother just buys
>things instead of hcekcign what's at home.)

If it's an Efficient 4100 or 5100b, it *MIGHT* have the PPPoE login
saved in the router. You'll need the full login name and password to
setup the 1800HG.

>During set up with this 2WIRE unit, I didn't do any security thing and
>I am wondering whether I should after realizing that that 2WIRE unit
>was wiresless according to the tech guy. Right now, network cable is
>used to connect to the only desktop.

The 2wire defaults keep changing at the request of the ISP's. In the
past, the router arrived with WEP as the default encryption. These
daze, it's set to WPA encryption. The encryption key is on the last
line of the serial number sticker on the bottom of the router base.
Not much to do if you're not using wireless. However, I would check
anyway. Point your web browser at the router IP address (use IPCONFIG
to find it) and dive into the web based setup on the wireless security
page. Set it to WPA and pick a reasonally secure pass phrase (over 20
characters).

>How excatly is DSL service different from Comcast as far as others
>accesing to the wireless network to use the internet.

Comcrash uses DHCP to assign the users IP addresses.
PBI/SBC/AT&T/whatever uses the evil PPPoE to do the same thing. The
difference is that Comcast does NOT need a login and password, while
SBC does. To the user on the LAN side of the router, they're
absolutely identical.

>Would the user
>need the DSL installer installed inhis/her PC(laptop)?

No way. If you just want to try it, leave the wireless settings
alone. With Windoze XP, "view available networks". Punch in the
encryption key (last line of the serial number label), and it should
work. If you find that it's WEP, change it later to WPA.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"amanda" wrote
> Hi,
>
>
> During set up with this 2WIRE unit, I didn't do any security thing and
> I am wondering whether I should after realizing that that 2WIRE unit
> was wiresless according to the tech guy. Right now, network cable is
> used to connect to the only desktop.

You should be able to disable the wireless in the web based interface.

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> "amanda" <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:
>
> >This morning, I did sbc yahoo DSL installation at family member's
> >house using a modem router combo unit from sbc. Brand is 2WIRE; model
> >is 1800HG Gateway.
>
> Good unit.

Good to know.

>
> >With the old DSL service, the same unit modem+router combo unit was
> >used but I didn't do the setup. Current DSL was initially set up with a
> >"speed stream" modem unit bought from sbc DSL. (My brother just buys
> >things instead of hcekcign what's at home.)
>
> If it's an Efficient 4100 or 5100b, it *MIGHT* have the PPPoE login
> saved in the router.

It's 4100. It didn't save because I tried setting it up using that
speed stream unit first when I changed the desktop for my sister and
had to install DSL installer.


> You'll need the full login name and password to
> setup the 1800HG.

I got those from the DSL provider. I calle from the same phone line
that DSL was on. Sort of pretended that I was my bro - the account
holder - and wasn't asked any personal question. Was just asked how was
the payment usually made. My sister is the one who paid and with check
and I said, "We.....".

>
> >During set up with this 2WIRE unit, I didn't do any security thing and
> >I am wondering whether I should after realizing that that 2WIRE unit
> >was wiresless according to the tech guy. Right now, network cable is
> >used to connect to the only desktop.
>
> The 2wire defaults keep changing at the request of the ISP's. In the
> past, the router arrived with WEP as the default encryption. These
> daze, it's set to WPA encryption.

After talking with the tech support when setting up 2WIRE, from Control
Panel, I clicked on "Wireless Network Setup Wizard", put network name
(SSID) and had a choice to let the computer creat the key (WEP/WAP) or
create manually. It didn't specificy whether it was WEP or WAP.

> The encryption key is on the last
> line of the serial number sticker on the bottom of the router base.

Yes, I was aware of that because the tech guy told me how tol gte
access to the network if I have a laptop with wirkless capability.

> Not much to do if you're not using wireless. However, I would check
> anyway. Point your web browser at the router IP address (use IPCONFIG
> to find it) and dive into the web based setup on the wireless security
> page. Set it to WPA and pick a reasonally secure pass phrase (over 20
> characters).

So if I want to set up the wireless security, I need to go to
Configuration Set up page for the 2WIRE which btw, can be reached at
"http://home"? What's the different between setting up wireless network
via that set up page and setting it using Control Panel's "Wireless
Network Setup Wizard"?

>
> >How excatly is DSL service different from Comcast as far as others
> >accesing to the wireless network to use the internet.
>
> Comcrash uses DHCP to assign the users IP addresses.
> PBI/SBC/AT&T/whatever uses the evil PPPoE to do the same thing.

Yeah, I had to choose PPPoE with when setting up the 2WIRE unit.

>The difference is that Comcast does NOT need a login and password, while
> SBC does.

Is that difference just a part of technology applied or is that because
the ISP provider makes it that way?

>To the user on the LAN side of the router, they're absolutely identical.

I see.

>
> >Would the user need the DSL installer installed inhis/her PC(laptop)?
>
> No way.
Okay.

> If you just want to try it, leave the wireless settings alone.

I don't have a wirless laptop or desktop at the moment to try.


>With Windoze XP, "view available networks". Punch in the
> encryption key (last line of the serial number label), and it should
> work.

That's pretty much what the tech guy said. He said the wireless laptop
will try to go onto the network and I just needed to give that number
in [........] which is on the bottom of the 2WIRE unit. Since he said
"better not do any wirless security", would the network name (SSID)
appear as the name of the DSL account holder if I had not done using
Control Panel's "Wireless Network Setup Wizard"? I would have gone
back to the "http://home" page and checked if I were nto terribly tired
at the time. Now no one is at home over that house to open the door.


>If you find that it's WEP, change it later to WPA.

Okay.

>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> If it's an Efficient 4100 or 5100b, it *MIGHT* have the PPPoE login
> saved in the router. You'll need the full login name and password to
> setup the 1800HG.

The SBC DSL/Wireless unit that a friend received recently seems to be the
4100, although I didn't verify that myself.

> past, the router arrived with WEP as the default encryption. These
> daze, it's set to WPA encryption. The encryption key is on the last

This one was satisfied from a Windows popup that asked for the key, which
was supplied. The laptop is using an Orinoco Silver, so it can only be
WEP-64. No WPA in that card.

> >Would the user
> >need the DSL installer installed inhis/her PC(laptop)?

> No way. If you just want to try it, leave the wireless settings
> alone. With Windoze XP, "view available networks". Punch in the
> encryption key (last line of the serial number label), and it should
> work. If you find that it's WEP, change it later to WPA.

It seems to have been set up already. Someone else did participate in the
initial self install, but claims not to have installed any software, or
keyed in any login information.

SBC knows which unit it is, which phone line it is connected to. Why would
a login be needed for the internet connection? If they send the modem, it
could be one of a pool with a set of pre-configured logins, if any login
were needed.

Cable modems don't need login information. Why should DSL?

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > If it's an Efficient 4100 or 5100b, it *MIGHT* have the PPPoE login
> > saved in the router. You'll need the full login name and password to
> > setup the 1800HG.
>
> The SBC DSL/Wireless unit that a friend received recently seems to be the
> 4100, although I didn't verify that myself.

If it is just the moden and brand name is speed steam, it's 4100 these
days. The older design, which my sister's hosue also had, might be
5100b thoguh i didn't look at the bottomm.

If it is SBC modem + router combo and wioreless, the one we have is
2WIRE. This was bought over 2 years ago.

>
> > past, the router arrived with WEP as the default encryption. These
> > daze, it's set to WPA encryption. The encryption key is on the last
>
> This one was satisfied from a Windows popup that asked for the key, which
> was supplied. The laptop is using an Orinoco Silver, so it can only be
> WEP-64. No WPA in that card.
>
> > >Would the user
> > >need the DSL installer installed inhis/her PC(laptop)?
>
> > No way. If you just want to try it, leave the wireless settings
> > alone. With Windoze XP, "view available networks". Punch in the
> > encryption key (last line of the serial number label), and it should
> > work. If you find that it's WEP, change it later to WPA.
>
> It seems to have been set up already. Someone else did participate in the
> initial self install, but claims not to have installed any software, or
> keyed in any login information.

Yeah, I wasn't doing any security setup and the tech guy told me that
when accesing from a pc w/ wireless capability, say a laptop with
wi-fi, the key number to put is the last line of serial number label
in appeared in [ ]. May be it's the same analogy as with requiring
member ID and password to install yahoo installer. With comcast, oeen
doesn't need that comcast software, ie, if I reformat the hard drive, I
can just access the internet w/o the need of any comcast software
installed in my PC that coonects to the modem or router.

>
> SBC knows which unit it is, which phone line it is connected to. Why would
> a login be needed for the internet connection? If they send the modem, it
> could be one of a pool with a set of pre-configured logins, if any login
> were needed.
>
> Cable modems don't need login information. Why should DSL?
>
> --
> ---
> Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 04:32:50 +0000 (UTC), (E-Mail Removed)
wrote in <ecbd1i$tvh$(E-Mail Removed)>:

>SBC knows which unit it is, which phone line it is connected to. Why would
>a login be needed for the internet connection? If they send the modem, it
>could be one of a pool with a set of pre-configured logins, if any login
>were needed.
>
>Cable modems don't need login information. Why should DSL?

PPPoE piggybacks on dial-up authentication, in part because, unlike
cable, it's designed so you can login to different accounts, or even to
different providers. However, that idea went over like a lead balloon,
so now we're just stuck with the hassle.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

On 20 Aug 2006 21:52:17 -0700, "Amanda" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
in <(E-Mail Removed) om>:

>Yeah, I wasn't doing any security setup and the tech guy told me that
>when accesing from a pc w/ wireless capability, say a laptop with
>wi-fi, the key number to put is the last line of serial number label
>in appeared in [ ]. May be it's the same analogy as with requiring
>member ID and password to install yahoo installer. With comcast, oeen
>doesn't need that comcast software, ie, if I reformat the hard drive, I
>can just access the internet w/o the need of any comcast software
>installed in my PC that coonects to the modem or router.

The Comcast software is needed for initial registration of a new
account, but not thereafter.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

"Amanda" <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>I got those from the DSL provider. I calle from the same phone line
>that DSL was on. Sort of pretended that I was my bro - the account
>holder - and wasn't asked any personal question. Was just asked how was
>the payment usually made. My sister is the one who paid and with check
>and I said, "We.....".

Personal questions? Ummm.... what manner of hot line were you
calling?

>After talking with the tech support when setting up 2WIRE, from Control
>Panel, I clicked on "Wireless Network Setup Wizard", put network name
>(SSID) and had a choice to let the computer creat the key (WEP/WAP) or
>create manually. It didn't specificy whether it was WEP or WAP.

I think (not sure) that it's WPA for the 1800HG/HW.

>So if I want to set up the wireless security, I need to go to
>Configuration Set up page for the 2WIRE which btw, can be reached at
>"http://home"?

I didn't know that. I usually use 172.16.0.254 (or something like
that) found with the IPCONFIG command.

>What's the different between setting up wireless network
>via that set up page and setting it using Control Panel's "Wireless
>Network Setup Wizard"?

More options. More control. More ways to screw things up. I've
never bother to even try the Windoze Network wizard.

>>The difference is that Comcast does NOT need a login and password, while
>> SBC does.
>
>Is that difference just a part of technology applied or is that because
>the ISP provider makes it that way?

Both. PPPoE does not in itself require a login and password. However,
PBI/SBC/AT&T wants the user to authenticate. This is a subtle
difference between the SBC system of authenticating the user, and
other systems of authenticating the connection (using the MAC
address). From RFC2516:

PPP over Ethernet (PPPoE) provides the ability to connect a network
of hosts over a simple bridging access device to a remote Access
Concentrator. With this model, each host utilizes it's own PPP stack
and the user is presented with a familiar user interface. Access
control, billing and type of service can be done on a per-user,
rather than a per-site, basis.

At one time, Comcast was authenticating by MAC address, but now uses
the DOCSIS BPI (baseline privacy interface) which also encrypts
everything. In effect, they authenticate the cable modem, not the
user. The problem with this is if the modem dies, a replacement
doesn't automagically function without first calling support. This is
not the case with PPPoE, where any DSL modem will work. The PPPoE
login and passwd can be in buried in the modem or the router depending
on hardware supplied. Of course, all this authentication is
ridiculous because the DSL number is not portable and is automatically
authenticated by the wiring at the CO (central office) to the DSLAM
(digital subscriber line access multiplexor). This is one reason why
I think PPPoE sucks.

>> If you just want to try it, leave the wireless settings alone.
>I don't have a wirless laptop or desktop at the moment to try.

Borrow one to try out the wireless.

>Since he said
>"better not do any wirless security", would the network name (SSID)
>appear as the name of the DSL account holder if I had not done using
>Control Panel's "Wireless Network Setup Wizard"?

If you left the SSID at the default, it would be "2wireXXX" where XXX
are the last 3 digits of the MAC address. There's nothing sacred
about this SSID. If you changed it, there's no problem. However, I
would not set it to the user account login name.

>I would have gone
>back to the "http://home" page and checked if I were nto terribly tired
>at the time. Now no one is at home over that house to open the door.

If you had a wireless laptop, you could sit outside the house and hack
your way in. The fun part is explaining to the police what you're
doing sitting in a car, late at night, pounding on a laptop.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:15:05 -0700 Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

| Comcrash uses DHCP to assign the users IP addresses.
| PBI/SBC/AT&T/whatever uses the evil PPPoE to do the same thing. The
| difference is that Comcast does NOT need a login and password, while
| SBC does. To the user on the LAN side of the router, they're
| absolutely identical.

Why do you say PPPoE is evil?

--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / spamtrap-2006-08-21-(E-Mail Removed) |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|