Tiscali/speedtouch only gets ADSL dial with phone off hook

Hi, I'm trying to help a friend get Tiscali broadband working in the
UK over a standard BT phone line.

She has a laptop with a Tiscali provided Thomson Speedtouch USB ADSL
modem.

We have the filter connected to her phone line and the modem connected
to the filter, with a digital cordless phone in the other filter
socket.

Now, the modem never gets a connection (flashes green) until I take
the telephone off the hook and get a dialtone. Then it connects. If I
remove the phone completely it never connects.

It's like the modem needs the phone to open the line for it.

I have tried :

1) Another modem
2) Changing the modem phone cable from a 2 pin to a 4 pin( connectins
pins in the RJ45 connector)
3) removing the face plate of the BT phone socket and using the test
socket

It's really odd, as if the modem is not able to get a dial tone , but
the phone is and the modem can then connect.

Predicatbly niether BT or Tiscali are much help, both have run remote
diagnostics and claim the line is fine, each pointing to the other,
but I wonder if anyone else has seen such a problem

"jives11" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>
> Hi, I'm trying to help a friend get Tiscali broadband working in the
> UK over a standard BT phone line.
>
> She has a laptop with a Tiscali provided Thomson Speedtouch USB ADSL
> modem.
>
> We have the filter connected to her phone line and the modem connected
> to the filter, with a digital cordless phone in the other filter
> socket.
>
> Now, the modem never gets a connection (flashes green) until I take
> the telephone off the hook and get a dialtone. Then it connects. If I
> remove the phone completely it never connects.
>
> It's like the modem needs the phone to open the line for it.
>
> I have tried :
>
> 1) Another modem
> 2) Changing the modem phone cable from a 2 pin to a 4 pin( connectins
> pins in the RJ45 connector)
> 3) removing the face plate of the BT phone socket and using the test
> socket
>
> It's really odd, as if the modem is not able to get a dial tone , but
> the phone is and the modem can then connect.
>
> Predicatbly niether BT or Tiscali are much help, both have run remote
> diagnostics and claim the line is fine, each pointing to the other,
> but I wonder if anyone else has seen such a problem

I suspect the microfilter, or the modem

Inspect the test socket in the BT box and satisfy yourself that there are no
wires other than the incoming pair connected to anything. If there are, get
BT to correct this situation.

Then plug the modem directly into the test socket. Since the modem may have
an attached lead, you will need another microfilter or similar adapter to
convert the RJ11 plug to a BT plug. Also try another modem, or better
still, a router.

If you can't get anything to work when directly connected to the test
socket, then it's your ISP's responsibility to get BT to fix the problem.

--
Graham J

On 29 Jan, in article
<(E-Mail Removed) .com>
(E-Mail Removed) "jives11" wrote:

> Hi, I'm trying to help a friend get Tiscali broadband working in the
> UK over a standard BT phone line.
>
> She has a laptop with a Tiscali provided Thomson Speedtouch USB ADSL
> modem.
>
> We have the filter connected to her phone line and the modem connected
> to the filter, with a digital cordless phone in the other filter
> socket.
>
> Now, the modem never gets a connection (flashes green) until I take
> the telephone off the hook and get a dialtone. Then it connects. If I
> remove the phone completely it never connects.
>
> It's like the modem needs the phone to open the line for it.
>
> I have tried :
>
> 1) Another modem
> 2) Changing the modem phone cable from a 2 pin to a 4 pin( connectins
> pins in the RJ45 connector)
> 3) removing the face plate of the BT phone socket and using the test
> socket
>
> It's really odd, as if the modem is not able to get a dial tone , but
> the phone is and the modem can then connect.
>
> Predicatbly niether BT or Tiscali are much help, both have run remote
> diagnostics and claim the line is fine, each pointing to the other,
> but I wonder if anyone else has seen such a problem

Assuming we're talking about a connection direct to the BT Master
Socket, with no extension wiring, the phone is the most likely culprit.
Otherwise, I'd try to eliminate the extension wiring by removing the
faceplate from the Master Socket. This should reveal an internal phone
socket.

It might be your filter, which may be why my ISP supplied two when I
signed up. Remember to mark them so you can distinguish them.

BT can blame Tiscali for a dud modem, but they're responsible for the
line and Master Socket.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

On the horizon, a carrier task force of the Salvation Navy was
turning into the wind, preparing to launch Zeppelins.

Thanks - I did try 2 filters and 2 modems.

I also tried modem direct to test socket.

I didn't take the whole socket off the wall, just the face plate.
However I did notice 3 wires connected to the back of the normal
socket. Would these be to another extension line or are these the
wirres coming in. I'd assumed that the BT line connects to the back of
the test socket. The face plate then piggybacks into this socket. The
crimp points on the back of the face plate socket are to daisy chain
another line ? If so would you expect to see 3 wires connected ?



On 29 Jan, 17:55, "Graham" <gra...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> "jives11" <jonathan.i...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:(E-Mail Removed) ooglegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi, I'm trying to help a friend get Tiscali broadband working in the
> > UK over a standard BT phone line.
>
> > She has a laptop with a Tiscali provided Thomson Speedtouch USB ADSL
> > modem.
>
> > We have the filter connected to her phone line and the modem connected
> > to the filter, with a digital cordless phone in the other filter
> > socket.
>
> > Now, the modem never gets a connection (flashes green) until I take
> > the telephone off the hook and get a dialtone. Then it connects. If I
> > remove the phone completely it never connects.
>
> > It's like the modem needs the phone to open the line for it.
>
> > I have tried :
>
> > 1) Another modem
> > 2) Changing the modem phone cable from a 2 pin to a 4 pin( connectins
> > pins in the RJ45 connector)
> > 3) removing the face plate of the BT phone socket and using the test
> > socket
>
> > It's really odd, as if the modem is not able to get a dial tone , but
> > the phone is and the modem can then connect.
>
> > Predicatbly niether BT or Tiscali are much help, both have run remote
> > diagnostics and claim the line is fine, each pointing to the other,
> > but I wonder if anyone else has seen such a problemI suspect the microfilter, or the modem
>
> Inspect the test socket in the BT box and satisfy yourself that there are no
> wires other than the incoming pair connected to anything. If there are, get
> BT to correct this situation.
>
> Then plug the modem directly into the test socket. Since the modem may have
> an attached lead, you will need another microfilter or similar adapter to
> convert the RJ11 plug to a BT plug. Also try another modem, or better
> still, a router.
>
> If you can't get anything to work when directly connected to the test
> socket, then it's your ISP's responsibility to get BT to fix the problem.
>
> --
> Graham J

"jives11" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> Thanks - I did try 2 filters and 2 modems.
>
> I also tried modem direct to test socket.
>
> I didn't take the whole socket off the wall, just the face plate.
> However I did notice 3 wires connected to the back of the normal
> socket. Would these be to another extension line or are these the
> wirres coming in. I'd assumed that the BT line connects to the back of
> the test socket. The face plate then piggybacks into this socket. The
> crimp points on the back of the face plate socket are to daisy chain
> another line ? If so would you expect to see 3 wires connected ?
>
>

Yes, the connectors on the back of the plug-in lower panel are for extensions.
There are usually four wires connected - 2 & 5 are speech wires, 3
is for ringing (ring signal created using a capacitor) and 4 is unused.
Although disconnecting the ring wire at the master can improve the SNR.


http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wi...telephone.html


I had a similar problem a few months ago where much of the time
the router would only sync if I took a phone off the hook, if I hung
up the router would sometimes retain a connection for a short while
and you see the SNR Margin drop in the router stats. In my case
it was caused by a fault on the line (I seem to get faults quite often)
which had also affected the line attenuation.

>> > Now, the modem never gets a connection (flashes green) until I take
>> > the telephone off the hook and get a dialtone. Then it connects. If I
>> > remove the phone completely it never connects.
>>
>> > It's like the modem needs the phone to open the line for it.
>>
>> > I have tried :
>>
>> > 1) Another modem
>> > 2) Changing the modem phone cable from a 2 pin to a 4 pin( connectins
>> > pins in the RJ45 connector)
>> > 3) removing the face plate of the BT phone socket and using the test
>> > socket
>>
>> > It's really odd, as if the modem is not able to get a dial tone , but
>> > the phone is and the modem can then connect.
>>
>> > Predicatbly niether BT or Tiscali are much help, both have run remote
>> > diagnostics and claim the line is fine, each pointing to the other,
>> > but I wonder if anyone else has seen such a problemI suspect the
>> > microfilter, or the modem
>>
>> Inspect the test socket in the BT box and satisfy yourself that there are
>> no
>> wires other than the incoming pair connected to anything. If there are,
>> get
>> BT to correct this situation.
>>
>> Then plug the modem directly into the test socket. Since the modem may
>> have
>> an attached lead, you will need another microfilter or similar adapter to
>> convert the RJ11 plug to a BT plug. Also try another modem, or better
>> still, a router.
>>
>> If you can't get anything to work when directly connected to the test
>> socket, then it's your ISP's responsibility to get BT to fix the problem.
>>
>> --
>> Graham J


Have a look here...seems from your description that you have an NTE5 master
socket.
If your modem fails to work when plugged into the NTE5 test socket refer the
problem to the ISP.
BT are responsible for problems upto and including the NTE5.
http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wi...telephone.html
F

"jives11" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>
> Hi, I'm trying to help a friend get Tiscali broadband working in the
> UK over a standard BT phone line.
>
> She has a laptop with a Tiscali provided Thomson Speedtouch USB ADSL
> modem.
>
> We have the filter connected to her phone line and the modem connected
> to the filter, with a digital cordless phone in the other filter
> socket.
>
> Now, the modem never gets a connection (flashes green) until I take
> the telephone off the hook and get a dialtone. Then it connects. If I
> remove the phone completely it never connects.
>
> It's like the modem needs the phone to open the line for it.
>
> I have tried :
>
> 1) Another modem
> 2) Changing the modem phone cable from a 2 pin to a 4 pin( connectins
> pins in the RJ45 connector)
> 3) removing the face plate of the BT phone socket and using the test
> socket
>
> It's really odd, as if the modem is not able to get a dial tone , but
> the phone is and the modem can then connect.
>
> Predicatbly niether BT or Tiscali are much help, both have run remote
> diagnostics and claim the line is fine, each pointing to the other,
> but I wonder if anyone else has seen such a problem
>

This is the classic symptom of a High Resistance ( HR ) line fault.

The additional current caused by the phone going off-hook is enough to
'punch through' the high resistance, and the ADSL works for the duration of
the off-hook.

You seem to have isolated it to outside your premises, so you need to
complain to your ISP ( again ), who will have BT repair it. Some ISPs need
a lot more persuasion than others to get onto BT in these cases. You just
need to persevere. Your ISP can't fob you off pointing at BT. Your ADSL
contract is with them, and it's up to them to deal with BT. BT won't deal
with you, you are not their customer: your ISP is.

--
Ron