Tiscali broadband and BT pbx

I am trying to set up Tiscali Broadband for a friend, but encountered a
couple of problems:
1.) ADSL filter does not work on master telephone( phone goes dead), but is
ok on all extensions.
2.) Installation seems to be ok, however I get message back saying ' no dial
tone'.
OS = win XP
Modem is Speedtouch 330 ADSL
I'd be grateful for any suggestion to get my friends system operational.
TIA
Fred

"colwyn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:ferikf$6ps$(E-Mail Removed)...
>I am trying to set up Tiscali Broadband for a friend, but encountered a
>couple of problems:
> 1.) ADSL filter does not work on master telephone( phone goes dead), but
> is ok on all extensions.
> 2.) Installation seems to be ok, however I get message back saying ' no
> dial tone'.
> OS = win XP
> Modem is Speedtouch 330 ADSL
> I'd be grateful for any suggestion to get my friends system operational.
> TIA
> Fred


Your post is a bit vague, but I will make some assumptions
and you can tell me if they are right.

First you have mentioned BT PBX in the title but have
not told us what kind of PBX, I am guessing that the
telephone you have identified as the "master" is in fact
a system-phone, ie. one that will not work if plugged
into an ordinary phone line. You need to leave these alone.

How many *outside* lines are connected to the PBX box?
How are they connected? hard-wired perhaps?
Do you know which exchange line has had ADSL provisioned?
It is this pair of wires that needs intercepting, you may
well need to install a BT type plug and socket so you
can install a filter.
The chances are that the PABX box is in a cupboard
well away from where the user wants to use his modem
however most installations will have at least one spare
pair of wires to each extension so you can take the
unfiltered ADSL line to an RJ11 socket mounted next
to the phone socket

How did I do?
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

"Graham." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:fetcpj$gql$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "colwyn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:ferikf$6ps$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>I am trying to set up Tiscali Broadband for a friend, but encountered a
>>couple of problems:
>> 1.) ADSL filter does not work on master telephone( phone goes dead), but
>> is ok on all extensions.
>> 2.) Installation seems to be ok, however I get message back saying ' no
>> dial tone'.
>> OS = win XP
>> Modem is Speedtouch 330 ADSL
>> I'd be grateful for any suggestion to get my friends system operational.
>> TIA
>> Fred
>
>
> Your post is a bit vague, but I will make some assumptions
> and you can tell me if they are right.
>
> First you have mentioned BT PBX in the title but have
> not told us what kind of PBX, I am guessing that the
> telephone you have identified as the "master" is in fact
> a system-phone, ie. one that will not work if plugged
> into an ordinary phone line. You need to leave these alone.
>
> How many *outside* lines are connected to the PBX box?
> How are they connected? hard-wired perhaps?
> Do you know which exchange line has had ADSL provisioned?
> It is this pair of wires that needs intercepting, you may
> well need to install a BT type plug and socket so you
> can install a filter.
> The chances are that the PABX box is in a cupboard
> well away from where the user wants to use his modem
> however most installations will have at least one spare
> pair of wires to each extension so you can take the
> unfiltered ADSL line to an RJ11 socket mounted next
> to the phone socket

That raises an interesting point. One purpose of a PBX is to handle more
than one simultaneous incoming call. Usually BT achieves this by allocating
the same number to several lines and configuring those lines to communicate
with the PBX. I've found in the past that it's not possible to have ADSL
provisioned on just one pair of these lines. I suspect it is because BT has
no way to publicly differentiate between the lines because of course they
all have the same number.

So to provide ADSL to a site which already has several lines into a PABX it
appears necessary to get another line with a diffferent number, which would
then be used only for ADSL and have no other purpose.

Is there a resolution to this? For example, by allocating separate numbers
to all the lines entering the PBX in such a way that if the first is busy
the second is used, and so on? Is this something that can be explained to
BT so that they can implement it?

--
Graham J

> That raises an interesting point. One purpose of a PBX is to handle more
> than one simultaneous incoming call. Usually BT achieves this by
> allocating the same number to several lines and configuring those lines to
> communicate with the PBX. I've found in the past that it's not possible
> to have ADSL provisioned on just one pair of these lines. I suspect it is
> because BT has no way to publicly differentiate between the lines because
> of course they all have the same number.
>
> So to provide ADSL to a site which already has several lines into a PABX
> it appears necessary to get another line with a diffferent number, which
> would then be used only for ADSL and have no other purpose.
>
> Is there a resolution to this? For example, by allocating separate
> numbers to all the lines entering the PBX in such a way that if the first
> is busy the second is used, and so on? Is this something that can be
> explained to BT so that they can implement it?


This very point was discussed recently in (I think) in uk.telecom.
I can't see any technical reason why one of a bunch of "auxiliary"
lines cannot be provisioned with ADSL, but as you rightly say,
BT won't.

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

"Graham." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:fetcpj$gql$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "colwyn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:ferikf$6ps$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>I am trying to set up Tiscali Broadband for a friend, but encountered a
>>couple of problems:
>> 1.) ADSL filter does not work on master telephone( phone goes dead), but
>> is ok on all extensions.
>> 2.) Installation seems to be ok, however I get message back saying ' no
>> dial tone'.
>> OS = win XP
>> Modem is Speedtouch 330 ADSL
>> I'd be grateful for any suggestion to get my friends system operational.
>> TIA
>> Fred
>
>
> Your post is a bit vague, but I will make some assumptions
> and you can tell me if they are right.
>
> First you have mentioned BT PBX in the title but have
> not told us what kind of PBX, I am guessing that the
> telephone you have identified as the "master" is in fact
> a system-phone, ie. one that will not work if plugged
> into an ordinary phone line. You need to leave these alone.
>
> How many *outside* lines are connected to the PBX box?
> How are they connected? hard-wired perhaps?
> Do you know which exchange line has had ADSL provisioned?
> It is this pair of wires that needs intercepting, you may
> well need to install a BT type plug and socket so you
> can install a filter.
> The chances are that the PABX box is in a cupboard
> well away from where the user wants to use his modem
> however most installations will have at least one spare
> pair of wires to each extension so you can take the
> unfiltered ADSL line to an RJ11 socket mounted next
> to the phone socket
>
> How did I do?
> --
>
> Graham.
> %Profound_observation%

Thank you Graham for getting back to me. Tried all sorts of things , so far
to no avail.
I will have to find out what telephone system he is using, I only know we
installed 7 filters to extensions, but as I said before his Master phone
goes dead when I put a filter in line. The pbx box is nearby and when
dialling 9 to get an outside line it takes at least 2 seconds to connect you
can hear the relay clicking.
He also has a direct line to a Fax m/c (different call number) which I tried
to use, but I wondered if the Tiscali supplied modem is configured to look
for the Tiscali telephone number. Again no joy and same message : No Dial
tone. I emailed Tiscali requesting a solution, but so far no response.
Anyway, if you have any more info I would be delighted.
Fred
>
>

"fred2" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Graham." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:fetcpj$gql$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> "colwyn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:ferikf$6ps$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>I am trying to set up Tiscali Broadband for a friend, but encountered a
>>>couple of problems:
>>> 1.) ADSL filter does not work on master telephone( phone goes dead), but
>>> is ok on all extensions.
>>> 2.) Installation seems to be ok, however I get message back saying ' no
>>> dial tone'.
>>> OS = win XP
>>> Modem is Speedtouch 330 ADSL
>>> I'd be grateful for any suggestion to get my friends system operational.
>>> TIA
>>> Fred
>>
>>
>> Your post is a bit vague, but I will make some assumptions
>> and you can tell me if they are right.
>>
>> First you have mentioned BT PBX in the title but have
>> not told us what kind of PBX, I am guessing that the
>> telephone you have identified as the "master" is in fact
>> a system-phone, ie. one that will not work if plugged
>> into an ordinary phone line. You need to leave these alone.
>>
>> How many *outside* lines are connected to the PBX box?
>> How are they connected? hard-wired perhaps?
>> Do you know which exchange line has had ADSL provisioned?
>> It is this pair of wires that needs intercepting, you may
>> well need to install a BT type plug and socket so you
>> can install a filter.
>> The chances are that the PABX box is in a cupboard
>> well away from where the user wants to use his modem
>> however most installations will have at least one spare
>> pair of wires to each extension so you can take the
>> unfiltered ADSL line to an RJ11 socket mounted next
>> to the phone socket
>>
>> How did I do?
>> --
>>
>> Graham.
>> %Profound_observation%
>
> Thank you Graham for getting back to me. Tried all sorts of things , so
> far to no avail.
> I will have to find out what telephone system he is using, I only know we
> installed 7 filters to extensions, but as I said before his Master phone
> goes dead when I put a filter in line. The pbx box is nearby and when
> dialling 9 to get an outside line it takes at least 2 seconds to connect
> you can hear the relay clicking.
> He also has a direct line to a Fax m/c (different call number) which I
> tried to use, but I wondered if the Tiscali supplied modem is configured
> to look for the Tiscali telephone number. Again no joy and same message :
> No Dial tone. I emailed Tiscali requesting a solution, but so far no
> response.
> Anyway, if you have any more info I would be delighted.
> Fred

Don't waste your time with Tiscali help, plenty of knowledgeable people
here.

Your friend would have had to submit the telephone number of the line
that he required ADSL on. He probably would have made it a lot
easier for himself if he had asked for the fax line to be used, but if
the line is on the phone system, all is not lost.

The ADSL signal is not passed through the PABX to any of the
extensions, including the main phone, so those filters are a waste of time.

As I said previously, you will need to break into the exchange line
going into the box and install a filter there and take the feed to the
modem from the filter.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

fred2 wrote:
> "Graham." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:fetcpj$gql$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> "colwyn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:ferikf$6ps$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> I am trying to set up Tiscali Broadband for a friend, but
>>> encountered a couple of problems:
>>> 1.) ADSL filter does not work on master telephone( phone goes
>>> dead), but is ok on all extensions.
>>> 2.) Installation seems to be ok, however I get message back
>>> saying ' no dial tone'.
>>> OS = win XP
>>> Modem is Speedtouch 330 ADSL
>>> I'd be grateful for any suggestion to get my friends system
>>> operational. TIA
>>> Fred
>>
>>
>> Your post is a bit vague, but I will make some assumptions
>> and you can tell me if they are right.
>>
>> First you have mentioned BT PBX in the title but have
>> not told us what kind of PBX, I am guessing that the
>> telephone you have identified as the "master" is in fact
>> a system-phone, ie. one that will not work if plugged
>> into an ordinary phone line. You need to leave these alone.
>>
>> How many *outside* lines are connected to the PBX box?
>> How are they connected? hard-wired perhaps?
>> Do you know which exchange line has had ADSL provisioned?
>> It is this pair of wires that needs intercepting, you may
>> well need to install a BT type plug and socket so you
>> can install a filter.
>> The chances are that the PABX box is in a cupboard
>> well away from where the user wants to use his modem
>> however most installations will have at least one spare
>> pair of wires to each extension so you can take the
>> unfiltered ADSL line to an RJ11 socket mounted next
>> to the phone socket
>>
>> How did I do?
>> --
>>
>> Graham.
>> %Profound_observation%
>
> Thank you Graham for getting back to me. Tried all sorts of things
> , so far to no avail.
> I will have to find out what telephone system he is using, I only
> know we installed 7 filters to extensions, but as I said before his
> Master phone goes dead when I put a filter in line. The pbx box is
> nearby and when dialling 9 to get an outside line it takes at least
> 2 seconds to connect you can hear the relay clicking.
> He also has a direct line to a Fax m/c (different call number)
> which I tried to use, but I wondered if the Tiscali supplied modem
> is configured to look for the Tiscali telephone number. Again no
> joy and same message : No Dial tone. I emailed Tiscali requesting a
> solution, but so far no response. Anyway, if you have any more info
> I would be delighted. Fred

Why are you wasting time, or is your 'friend' not sure what line the
service is going to be supplied over ????

Broadband will be supplied over one line & number so 'trying another
line' with a completely different number is, as I have already said, a
complete & utter waste of time.

Find your 'friends' NTTP which will have been fitted before the switch
& start from there, not on the extensions as DSL will not work thru a
PBX as has already been stated. The reason it makes the phone go dead
is because it is a system phone & so does not work on the same pin out
as a normal phone, here again has already been stated.

If you do get to the bottom of this do not be suprised if the service
has not been provided at all due to the fact that BT does not normally
provide DSL over multi line hunt groups (PBX, Featurenet or feature
line). I won't say never as there was a few which have slipped thru,
this is more likely to get caught nowadays though.

"kráftéé" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> Why are you wasting time, or is your 'friend' not sure what line the
> service is going to be supplied over ????
>
> Broadband will be supplied over one line & number so 'trying another line'
> with a completely different number is, as I have already said, a complete
> & utter waste of time.
>
> Find your 'friends' NTTP which will have been fitted before the switch &
> start from there, not on the extensions as DSL will not work thru a PBX as
> has already been stated. The reason it makes the phone go dead is because
> it is a system phone & so does not work on the same pin out as a normal
> phone, here again has already been stated.
>
> If you do get to the bottom of this do not be suprised if the service has
> not been provided at all due to the fact that BT does not normally provide
> DSL over multi line hunt groups (PBX, Featurenet or feature line). I
> won't say never as there was a few which have slipped thru, this is more
> likely to get caught nowadays though.
>
Thank you for your input, but as Graham already suggested we shall have to
find his incoming line and take it from the Network Test and Termination
Point. All I hoped to get was a Dial tone from his separate Fax line his
modem might have detected, but that wasn't to be. Personally, I do not want
to open his box PBX or other boxes of tricks or anything associated to BT
wiring, 'cause if things don't work afterwards( it's an old system), I do
not wish to carry the can.
So, I am now looking for a telecom engineer to get into his Cat's Cradle and
get an ADSL signal to his modem and get me off the hook.
I assumed (wrongly) that after he had a Dial-up link with Talk-talk it would
be a simple matter of changing to B/B Tiscali by just plugging his new modem
into his extension socket and running the installation CD, because that is
all I had to do to get my BT Broad band up and running, very nicely too.
Fred

fred2 wrote:

> Thank you for your input, but as Graham already suggested we shall
> have to find his incoming line and take it from the Network Test
> and Termination Point. All I hoped to get was a Dial tone from his
> separate Fax line his modem might have detected,

His DSL modem won't detect any analogue system so you are wasting your
time, making things far more convoluted &complicated than what they
need be.

The very fact that you did try does bring your 'helpfulness' into
question though.

"kráftéé" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> fred2 wrote:
>
>> Thank you for your input, but as Graham already suggested we shall
>> have to find his incoming line and take it from the Network Test
>> and Termination Point. All I hoped to get was a Dial tone from his
>> separate Fax line his modem might have detected,
>
> His DSL modem won't detect any analogue system so you are wasting your
> time, making things far more convoluted &complicated than what they need
> be.
>
> The very fact that you did try does bring your 'helpfulness' into question
> though.
>
At least I tried to be helpful
Fred