Tiscali & Netgear DG834G

I have Tiscali Broadband and a Negear DG834G with built in modem and no
Ethernet cable.

Now everything is set up and all lights are as should be on mode and signal
strength is 54mbps. Nonetheless, it is saying connectivity is low and it is
showing an invalid IP address in properties for the connection.

Any ideas? Somebody suggested I need to contact Tiscali helpdesk for them to
clone my IP or reset something?

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 20:30:17 GMT, "Worzel Gummidge" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

> I have Tiscali Broadband and a Negear DG834G with built in modem and no
> Ethernet cable.
>
> Now everything is set up and all lights are as should be on mode and signal
> strength is 54mbps. Nonetheless, it is saying connectivity is low and it is
> showing an invalid IP address in properties for the connection.
>
> Any ideas? Somebody suggested I need to contact Tiscali helpdesk for them to
> clone my IP or reset something?

Why call Tiscali? Does Tiscali offer support for the Netgear router?

The problem you seem to be having is connecting from computer to router,
so nothing that Tiscali can do, other that give you guidance and advice,
will help this problem.

I assume the router is brand new and unconfigured and you're running
Windows XP. Is that correct? What wireless equipment is in your computer
and are you able to have Windows display the information that it can
detect the presence of a wireless access point named NETGEAR?

Tony

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 20:30:17 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , "Worzel
Gummidge" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I have Tiscali Broadband and a Negear DG834G with built in modem and no
>Ethernet cable.

Get one, you will need it to configure the router. You simply cannot
do it over the wireless link.

>Any ideas? Somebody suggested I need to contact Tiscali helpdesk for them to
>clone my IP or reset something?

Whoever said that had no clue.

Get an ethernet cable, plug your PC into the router, and follow the
instructions in the manual for configuring it to work with your BB
connection and PC.

Then, and only then, remove the cable and try to diagnose the wireless
problems.
Mark McIntyre
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Mark McIntyre <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

>>I have Tiscali Broadband and a Negear DG834G with built in modem
>>and no Ethernet cable.
>
> Get one, you will need it to configure the router. You simply
> cannot do it over the wireless link.
>

Nonsense, it's dead easy.

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 01:12:15 GMT, Frazer Jolly Goodfellow
<no-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Mark McIntyre <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>news:(E-Mail Removed) :
>
>>>I have Tiscali Broadband and a Negear DG834G with built in modem
>>>and no Ethernet cable.
>>
>> Get one, you will need it to configure the router. You simply
>> cannot do it over the wireless link.

>Nonsense, it's dead easy.

Really? I've done a bit of digging to see what goes wrong when I try
to change wireless settings while connected via the wireless. It
seems that a very long setup URL, full of gets from settings boxes,
tends to get truncated while sending. The URL limit is 256 characters
and some of these huge setup URL's come close. What happens is that
the web server starts decoding the HTML in the order received, and
issuing commands to the router firmware in the order received. If it
gets changing the channel, encryption key, SSID, authentication,
rebooting, or something that precipitates an immediate disconnect, it
will be executed before the client has finished sending the very long
URL.

This doesn't happen with every router or on every web page setup.
However, I managed to screw up a WAP11 v1.1, DWL-900AP+ and a
BEFW11s4v4 with this method by trying to configure the wireless
settings via wireless. No problems when I tried it with a WRT54G
using DD-WRT v23. No clue on the DG834G.

Of course, one shouldn't even think of doing a firmware update via
wireless. Any interruption would be fatal.

Bottom line is that you can probably use the wireless link to safely
configure the non-wireless settings in a router, but don't try to
change anything on the wireless pages that might initiate a premature
disconnection or reboot. The manufacturer, just about everybody else,
and I all recommend configuration be done via a wired connection.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 01:57:21 GMT, Jeff Liebermann
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> No clue on the DG834G.

That is clear, but that is the subject of the thread.

> Of course, one shouldn't even think of doing a firmware update via
> wireless. Any interruption would be fatal.

You were doing so well and then fell off the wagon again :-)

Tony

Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 01:12:15 GMT, Frazer Jolly Goodfellow
> <no-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Mark McIntyre <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>>news:(E-Mail Removed) m:
>>
>>>>I have Tiscali Broadband and a Negear DG834G with built in
>>>>modem and no Ethernet cable.
>>>
>>> Get one, you will need it to configure the router. You simply
>>> cannot do it over the wireless link.
>
>>Nonsense, it's dead easy.
>
> Really?
Yes.

> I've done a bit of digging to see what goes wrong when
> I try to change wireless settings while connected via the
> wireless. It seems that a very long setup URL, full of gets
> from settings boxes, tends to get truncated while sending. The
> URL limit is 256 characters and some of these huge setup URL's
> come close. What happens is that the web server starts decoding
> the HTML in the order received, and issuing commands to the
> router firmware in the order received. If it gets changing the
> channel, encryption key, SSID, authentication, rebooting, or
> something that precipitates an immediate disconnect, it will be
> executed before the client has finished sending the very long
> URL.
I've never encountered such a crappily designed beast. Every
router/access point I've configured has a two-stage process: set
the configuration changes you intend to make then click a single
Save Settings or similar button to actually implement the changes.

> This doesn't happen with every router or on every web page
> setup. However, I managed to screw up a WAP11 v1.1, DWL-900AP+
> and a BEFW11s4v4 with this method by trying to configure the
> wireless settings via wireless. No problems when I tried it
> with a WRT54G using DD-WRT v23. No clue on the DG834G.

If you are methodical about making the settings you can do it
successfully every time. e.g.

1 Create a new text document and type up the SSID and WEP/WPA key
settings you intend to use.

2 Copy and paste the settings into the router setup screen.

3 Tell the router to implement the changes, which will drop the and
restart wireless link.

4 When the client discovers the restarted WLAN, click View
Available Networks, select it and choose Connect.

5 Copy and paste the WEP/WPA key into the client WLAN settings.

6 If you are setting up several client PCs, copy the file created
in step 1 to removable media (flash disk?) and repeat steps 4 and 5
on each client PC.

[this assumes the router has wireless switched on by default, with
no encryption or a default encryption key]


> Of course, one shouldn't even think of doing a firmware update
> via wireless. Any interruption would be fatal.
Agree, there's a risk of creating a hi-tec doorstop.

> Bottom line is that you can probably use the wireless link to
> safely configure the non-wireless settings in a router, but
> don't try to change anything on the wireless pages that might
> initiate a premature disconnection or reboot. The manufacturer,
> just about everybody else, and I all recommend configuration be
> done via a wired connection.
See above.

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:30:38 GMT, Frazer Jolly Goodfellow
<no-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> news:(E-Mail Removed):

>> Of course, one shouldn't even think of doing a firmware update
>> via wireless. Any interruption would be fatal.
> Agree, there's a risk of creating a hi-tec doorstop.

There is no way to do that with the DG834G. It is totally impossible to
put it into an irrecoverable state without physical or electrical abuse.
Even if a firmware update is interrupted or corrupted the equipment is
recoverable with the Netgear supplied software tools. I have updated the
firmware locally by wireless and also remotely from 3000 miles away over
the Internet and never ever had a problem.

This is a thread about a particular brand and model of router but we are
receiving the "benefit" of well intentioned but ignorant advice from
people with little or no experience of it.

Tony

Frazer Jolly Goodfellow <no-(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>>>> Get one, you will need it to configure the router. You simply
>>>> cannot do it over the wireless link.
>>>Nonsense, it's dead easy.
>> Really?
>Yes.

I beg to slightly differ.

>I've never encountered such a crappily designed beast.

Welcome to the wonderful world of bottom of the line routers.
Fast, cheap, reliable; pick two.
The industry and customers seem to have selected the first two.

>Every
>router/access point I've configured has a two-stage process: set
>the configuration changes you intend to make then click a single
>Save Settings or similar button to actually implement the changes.

You must be used to the real Cisco routers and IOS.
Tweak the settings from the command line of upload a page full of
commands and settings. When it's all working, run:
copy running-config startup-config
Well, that's the way I also like to do it. Same with flash upgrades,
where the router has twice the flash memory as required and can switch
between the old and new flash images with a single command.

>3 Tell the router to implement the changes, which will drop the and
>restart wireless link.

That's where the problem starts. The client sends the settings to the
router (via wireless) as a very long URL. It doesn't just send the
item that was changed. It sends the entire page.

The problem is that that router parses the long list of settings in
the order in which they are received. If the change in SSID or
WEP/WPA key is early in the setup string, the router may disconnect
the wireless link or even initiate a soft reboot before it is done
parsing the subsequent settings. A properly designed system would
store the entire line before executing any changes, but that's not
what seems to be happening. I've been meaning to dive into the WRT54G
source code and see if that's really the way it works.

>[this assumes the router has wireless switched on by default, with
>no encryption or a default encryption key]

See one of my assorted previous rants on the idiocy of routers being
shipped insecure and wide open by default. Your proceedure should
work with what I guess to be perhaps 90% of the routers, firmware
mutations, and situations, and is probably safe. I do it something
like that myself when I feel brave (or lazy). However, when I can't
afford to make a mistake (i.e. wireless access point is sitting on a
rooftop or a tower), I do it via ethernet only.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 01:12:15 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Frazer
Jolly Goodfellow <no-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Mark McIntyre <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>news:(E-Mail Removed) :
>
>>>I have Tiscali Broadband and a Negear DG834G with built in modem
>>>and no Ethernet cable.
>>
>> Get one, you will need it to configure the router. You simply
>> cannot do it over the wireless link.
>>
>Nonsense, it's dead easy.

So is falling off a cliff. That doesn't mean to say it will usefully
do anything.

For example when you're setting the encryption settings, you will lock
yourself out.

But go ahead, knock yourself out.
Mark McIntyre
--

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