Sped variations..

Suddenly my noramlly good line is suffering ongestion.

I am still resynching at 2500+ annd the BRAS is 3Mbps..

but speeds have been as low as 600Kbps

This is claranet who don't shape or strangle..

Today 15:10 2895 kbps (362kB/s) 368 kbps (46kB/s) Share
Today 14:06 1168 kbps (146kB/s) 357 kbps (44.6kB/s) Share
Today 14:04 932 kbps (117kB/s) 352 kbps (44kB/s) Share
Today 14:02 1329 kbps (166kB/s) 355 kbps (44.4kB/s) Share
Today 12:44 2947 kbps (368kB/s) 372 kbps (46.5kB/s) Share
Yesterday 12:45 2957 kbps (370kB/s) 379 kbps (47.4kB/s)

Are these sorts of speed reductions normal? I regard anything less than
50% of BRAS as not really good enough.

Are there any issues with BT's frame relay network?




The Natural Philosopher

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Suddenly my noramlly good line is suffering ongestion.
>
> I am still resynching at 2500+ annd the BRAS is 3Mbps..
>
> but speeds have been as low as 600Kbps
>
> This is claranet who don't shape or strangle..
>
> Today 15:10 2895 kbps (362kB/s) 368 kbps (46kB/s) Share
> Today 14:06 1168 kbps (146kB/s) 357 kbps (44.6kB/s) Share
> Today 14:04 932 kbps (117kB/s) 352 kbps (44kB/s) Share
> Today 14:02 1329 kbps (166kB/s) 355 kbps (44.4kB/s) Share
> Today 12:44 2947 kbps (368kB/s) 372 kbps (46.5kB/s) Share
> Yesterday 12:45 2957 kbps (370kB/s) 379 kbps (47.4kB/s)
>
> Are these sorts of speed reductions normal? I regard anything less than
> 50% of BRAS as not really good enough.
>
> Are there any issues with BT's frame relay network?
>
>

This problem persists. Clara have escalated support...but here is a
sample from today: these are download stats from a speed checker. Other
checkers give similar.

Time Download Upload.
Today 17:05 398 kbps (49.8kB/s) 378 kbps (47.3kB/s) Share
Today 16:55 485 kbps (60.6kB/s) 315 kbps (39.4kB/s) Share
Today 15:45 469 kbps (58.6kB/s) 377 kbps (47.1kB/s) Share
Today 15:30 451 kbps (56.4kB/s) 356 kbps (44.5kB/s) Share
Today 14:56 678 kbps (84.8kB/s) 378 kbps (47.3kB/s) Share
Today 14:43 387 kbps (48.4kB/s) 377 kbps (47.1kB/s) Share
Today 13:54 314 kbps (39.3kB/s) 366 kbps (45.8kB/s) Share
Today 13:21 300 kbps (37.5kB/s) 373 kbps (46.6kB/s) Share
Today 13:17 281 kbps (35.1kB/s) 338 kbps (42.3kB/s) Share
Today 13:12 301 kbps (37.6kB/s) 316 kbps (39.5kB/s) Share
Today 13:08 275 kbps (34.4kB/s) 376 kbps (47kB/s) Share
Today 13:05 309 kbps (38.6kB/s) 377 kbps (47.1kB/s) Share

The router is happy enough...


Data Path Fast
Operation Mode G.DMT

Downstream Upstream
Line Status
ADSL Link Speed 3904 kbps 448 kbps
SNR 6.0 dB 0.0 dB
ATEN 46 dB 25 dB
Line Error
ADSL layer
FEC 0 0
CRC 520 3
ATM layer
HEC 265 1
Frame Counter 74735 70280

Last I could see it, my BRAS was at 3000kbps..


Anybody have a clue what is going on?

have done all the usual - internal stuff is not the problem.

Do BT have frame relay issues?

Small suffolk phone exchange..

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> This problem persists. Clara have escalated support...but here is a
> sample from today: these are download stats from a speed checker. Other
> checkers give similar.
>
> Time Download Upload.
> Today 17:05 398 kbps (49.8kB/s) 378 kbps (47.3kB/s) Share
> Today 16:55 485 kbps (60.6kB/s) 315 kbps (39.4kB/s) Share
> Today 15:45 469 kbps (58.6kB/s) 377 kbps (47.1kB/s) Share
> Today 15:30 451 kbps (56.4kB/s) 356 kbps (44.5kB/s) Share
> Today 14:56 678 kbps (84.8kB/s) 378 kbps (47.3kB/s) Share
> Today 14:43 387 kbps (48.4kB/s) 377 kbps (47.1kB/s) Share
> Today 13:54 314 kbps (39.3kB/s) 366 kbps (45.8kB/s) Share
> Today 13:21 300 kbps (37.5kB/s) 373 kbps (46.6kB/s) Share
> Today 13:17 281 kbps (35.1kB/s) 338 kbps (42.3kB/s) Share
> Today 13:12 301 kbps (37.6kB/s) 316 kbps (39.5kB/s) Share
> Today 13:08 275 kbps (34.4kB/s) 376 kbps (47kB/s) Share
> Today 13:05 309 kbps (38.6kB/s) 377 kbps (47.1kB/s) Share
>
> The router is happy enough...
>
>
> Data Path Fast
> Operation Mode G.DMT
>
> Downstream Upstream
> Line Status
> ADSL Link Speed 3904 kbps 448 kbps
> SNR 6.0 dB 0.0 dB
> ATEN 46 dB 25 dB
> Line Error
> ADSL layer
> FEC 0 0
> CRC 520 3
> ATM layer
> HEC 265 1
> Frame Counter 74735 70280

It would be handy if you could see any AAL5 frame error stats.

I had a few days a while ago where it seemed there was a BT ATM messup
which meant cells were getting dropped and so trashing the AAL5 frames
(maybe not the same counter as Frame above as DSL uses frames as well).

If it's plain exchange congestion I would expect pings to anywhere to be
high while downloading.

If it's loss they will stay low. When I had the problem I could see
random loss with ping - but only on large packets.

IIRC DOS ping options then try on an empty line -

ping -l 1400 -n 100 www.bbc.co.uk a few times and see if there is any loss.

Also try the same to your own IP address to make sure your side is OK.

If you see loss to WAN but not LAN then it's either BT or clara or your
line. Judging by CRC not rising it's not your line. If your modem gives
the AAL5 error counter then watch that while downloading if it's rising
then you can infer a BT ATM problem rather than clara (assuming they use
ipstream).

Andy.

Andy Furniss wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> This problem persists. Clara have escalated support...but here is a
>> sample from today: these are download stats from a speed checker.
>> Other checkers give similar.
>>
>> Time Download Upload.
>> Today 17:05 398 kbps (49.8kB/s) 378 kbps (47.3kB/s) Share
>> Today 16:55 485 kbps (60.6kB/s) 315 kbps (39.4kB/s) Share
>> Today 15:45 469 kbps (58.6kB/s) 377 kbps (47.1kB/s) Share
>> Today 15:30 451 kbps (56.4kB/s) 356 kbps (44.5kB/s) Share
>> Today 14:56 678 kbps (84.8kB/s) 378 kbps (47.3kB/s) Share
>> Today 14:43 387 kbps (48.4kB/s) 377 kbps (47.1kB/s) Share
>> Today 13:54 314 kbps (39.3kB/s) 366 kbps (45.8kB/s) Share
>> Today 13:21 300 kbps (37.5kB/s) 373 kbps (46.6kB/s) Share
>> Today 13:17 281 kbps (35.1kB/s) 338 kbps (42.3kB/s) Share
>> Today 13:12 301 kbps (37.6kB/s) 316 kbps (39.5kB/s) Share
>> Today 13:08 275 kbps (34.4kB/s) 376 kbps (47kB/s) Share
>> Today 13:05 309 kbps (38.6kB/s) 377 kbps (47.1kB/s) Share
>>
>> The router is happy enough...
>>
>>
>> Data Path Fast
>> Operation Mode G.DMT
>>
>> Downstream Upstream
>> Line Status ADSL Link Speed 3904 kbps 448 kbps
>> SNR 6.0 dB 0.0 dB
>> ATEN 46 dB 25 dB
>> Line Error ADSL layer
>> FEC 0 0
>> CRC 520 3
>> ATM layer HEC 265 1
>> Frame Counter 74735 70280
>
> It would be handy if you could see any AAL5 frame error stats.
>

Not implemented on this router AFAIK..

> I had a few days a while ago where it seemed there was a BT ATM messup
> which meant cells were getting dropped and so trashing the AAL5 frames
> (maybe not the same counter as Frame above as DSL uses frames as well).
>
> If it's plain exchange congestion I would expect pings to anywhere to be
> high while downloading.
>
> If it's loss they will stay low. When I had the problem I could see
> random loss with ping - but only on large packets.
>
> IIRC DOS ping options then try on an empty line -
>
> ping -l 1400 -n 100 www.bbc.co.uk a few times and see if there is any loss.
>
well I am back up to 3500Kbps downloads now.

I THINK that there is a power user in this village somewhere keeping US
east coast time...US fund manager..;-(


> Also try the same to your own IP address to make sure your side is OK.
>

Oh I get no probs inside the LAN. lightning fast access to the server
and printers.

> If you see loss to WAN but not LAN then it's either BT or clara or your
> line. Judging by CRC not rising it's not your line. If your modem gives
> the AAL5 error counter then watch that while downloading if it's rising
> then you can infer a BT ATM problem rather than clara (assuming they use
> ipstream).

Not sure what they use. It a widdly little country exchange, and fed I
think by a microwave dish. So it will be very basic I am sure.

Supposing BT had oversold their backhaul, would it just get SLOW, or
would it be packet loss as well?


>
> Andy.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Andy Furniss wrote:

>> It would be handy if you could see any AAL5 frame error stats.
>
> Not implemented on this router AFAIK..

Thats a shame FWIW on my AR7 based router via GUI it's not on the same
page as the modem stats, it's under network statistics and it calls them
PDUs.


> well I am back up to 3500Kbps downloads now.
>
> I THINK that there is a power user in this village somewhere keeping US
> east coast time...US fund manager..;-(

Ugh I bet he's got office as well so gets more than you. I think below
600kbit for someone syncing >= 2272 is below BT planning guidelines
(although the doc I read that in is ambiguous, contradictory and
inaccurate in places) but it may be worth doing BT speedtests when it's bad.

> Not sure what they use. It a widdly little country exchange, and fed I
> think by a microwave dish. So it will be very basic I am sure.

I guess they are ipstream - the microwave link is another layer of
complexity that I have no experience of.

>
> Supposing BT had oversold their backhaul, would it just get SLOW, or
> would it be packet loss as well?

I would say that it shouldn't give any loss on the big ping test to the
BBC as long as there is no other traffic on your line. If you can get
loss doing that it looks more like a fault (or clara overloaded their
central).

Andy.

Andy Furniss wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> Andy Furniss wrote:
>
>>> It would be handy if you could see any AAL5 frame error stats.
>>
>> Not implemented on this router AFAIK..
>
> Thats a shame FWIW on my AR7 based router via GUI it's not on the same
> page as the modem stats, it's under network statistics and it calls them
> PDUs.
>
>
>> well I am back up to 3500Kbps downloads now.
>>
>> I THINK that there is a power user in this village somewhere keeping
>> US east coast time...US fund manager..;-(
>
> Ugh I bet he's got office as well so gets more than you. I think below
> 600kbit for someone syncing >= 2272 is below BT planning guidelines
> (although the doc I read that in is ambiguous, contradictory and
> inaccurate in places) but it may be worth doing BT speedtests when it's
> bad.
>

I have seen below 400Kbps yesterday.

Not sure how to DO BT speedtests..


>> Not sure what they use. It a widdly little country exchange, and fed I
>> think by a microwave dish. So it will be very basic I am sure.
>
> I guess they are ipstream - the microwave link is another layer of
> complexity that I have no experience of.
>

Its just another piece of wet string as far as frame relay is concerned.
IIRC they run about 35Ghz on the links, and you can normally get a few
hundred Mhz of bandwidth.




>>
>> Supposing BT had oversold their backhaul, would it just get SLOW, or
>> would it be packet loss as well?
>
> I would say that it shouldn't give any loss on the big ping test to the
> BBC as long as there is no other traffic on your line. If you can get
> loss doing that it looks more like a fault (or clara overloaded their
> central).

No ping losses showing up. Just ran a test. 600kbps and zero packet
loss. Router synched at 3400 kbps and no errors of any consequence.

The link is rock solid, just slow.




>
> Andy.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> I have seen below 400Kbps yesterday.
>
> Not sure how to DO BT speedtests..

speedtester.bt.com

It asks for phone number & logon details and records results.

It doesn't always work, though.

Andy.

Andy Furniss wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> I have seen below 400Kbps yesterday.
>>
>> Not sure how to DO BT speedtests..
>
> speedtester.bt.com
>
> It asks for phone number & logon details and records results.
>
> It doesn't always work, though.
>
> Andy.
tells me I am not registered or summat.

> speedtester.bt.com
> It asks for phone number & logon details and records results.
> It doesn't always work, though.

If it doesn't, use:
http://www.speedtester.bt.com:50302/...n/home.page.pl

doesn't need login, always works (in my experience),
but won't give your profile details.
Regards,
martin