print server name vs network neighborhood

ok... not exactly a wireless question - but lots of good smart folks...

Unlike the usual workgroup setups,
most of my computers are setup with their own "workgroup" name
so I can see that they are talking to each other across the "workgroup"
world as a Windows Network.

I can see all my different computers... running Win98, XP, and Vista.

However - the Netgear PS101 that I use to create a quick network print
server
does NOT appear in the XP Network Neighborhood display.

The Netgear PS101 default and non-changeable workgroup name is in fact
"WORKGROUP".
So, if I change one of the computer to that group,
then I can see the print server, but the other workgroups can't.

What is different with a print server that it does not broadcast SMBs that
are recognized
by the other Windows computers for their list of available "servers".

--
----------------------------------
"If everything seems to be going well,
you have obviously overlooked something." - Steven Wright




P.Schuman

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 00:07:59 GMT, "P.Schuman"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>ok... not exactly a wireless question - but lots of good smart folks...

Right. That saves you the effort of finding the appropriate newsgroup
or mailing list. However, it's ok to be lazy.

>most of my computers are setup with their own "workgroup" name
>so I can see that they are talking to each other across the "workgroup"
>world as a Windows Network.

I can tell you don't understand how Windoze Workgroups work. Search
Google for "browser service" such as:
<http://support.microsoft.com/kb/188001>

>However - the Netgear PS101

PS101 v1 or v2? Big difference inside.

>The Netgear PS101 default and non-changeable workgroup name is in fact
>"WORKGROUP".

<ftp://downloads.netgear.com/files/PS%20101%20RefGuide.zip>
See Fig 4-12 for how to change the unchangeable workgroup name.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 00:07:59 GMT, "P.Schuman"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> ok... not exactly a wireless question - but lots of good smart
>> folks...
>
> Right. That saves you the effort of finding the appropriate newsgroup
> or mailing list. However, it's ok to be lazy.

so - whadda think would be a good newsgroup for this question ?

>> most of my computers are setup with their own "workgroup" name
>> so I can see that they are talking to each other across the
>> "workgroup" world as a Windows Network.
>
> I can tell you don't understand how Windoze Workgroups work. Search
> Google for "browser service" such as:
> <http://support.microsoft.com/kb/188001>

I thought I understood the NBT browser service & master browser
selection process.
poke around with NBTSTAT and NET VIEW and Windows Network

BUT - it appears the print servers - all, or just the Netgear I have -
don't have the support to become their own Master Browser for a group
and therefore can only join as a participating member of a group.
The hierarchy displayed with the Windows Network/Neighborhood shows:
Workgroup Names
then Computer Host Name, or Print Server Name, or whatever host
device
for computers, then the shared folders and shared physical
devices
for the print server, the P1 port name

I have a NAS (network attached storage) running in it's own workgroup
name,
and it appears as a "computer" with it's sub-folders.

SO - I was guessing that the print server would act as a "computer" with a
printer attached,
just like we see in the Windows Network display with our real computers and
their associated printers.


>> However - the Netgear PS101
>
> PS101 v1 or v2? Big difference inside.
>
>> The Netgear PS101 default and non-changeable workgroup name is in
>> fact "WORKGROUP".
>
> <ftp://downloads.netgear.com/files/PS%20101%20RefGuide.zip>
> See Fig 4-12 for how to change the unchangeable workgroup name.
>
> --
> # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
> # 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
> # http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
> # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 00:07:59 GMT, "P.Schuman"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<z5puj.11639$(E-Mail Removed) >:

>ok... not exactly a wireless question - but lots of good smart folks...

Not a good reason.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 02:53:23 GMT, "P.Schuman"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<Dwruj.11654$(E-Mail Removed) >:

>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 00:07:59 GMT, "P.Schuman"
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> ok... not exactly a wireless question - but lots of good smart
>>> folks...
>>
>> Right. That saves you the effort of finding the appropriate newsgroup
>> or mailing list. However, it's ok to be lazy.
>
> so - whadda think would be a good newsgroup for this question ?

Use Google Groups to search for your answer. You might even find it
without posting a new question. Otherwise you can scan the results to
see which newsgroups are most appropriate for such queries.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 02:53:23 GMT, "P.Schuman"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 00:07:59 GMT, "P.Schuman"
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> ok... not exactly a wireless question - but lots of good smart
>>> folks...
>>
>> Right. That saves you the effort of finding the appropriate newsgroup
>> or mailing list. However, it's ok to be lazy.
>
> so - whadda think would be a good newsgroup for this question ?

Ok, you really are lazy.
Well, John suggested you use Google Groups for searching:
<http://groups.google.com>
Inscribe "print server netgear" or something similar in the search
box. Looks like comp.periphs.printers has something.

If all else fails, you can try the Netgear Forums at:
<http://forum1.netgear.com>
for specifics on the PS101.

>> I can tell you don't understand how Windoze Workgroups work. Search
>> Google for "browser service" such as:
>> <http://support.microsoft.com/kb/188001>
>
> I thought I understood the NBT browser service & master browser
>selection process.

It's master browser election, not selection. I'll stand on my
observation.

> BUT - it appears the print servers - all, or just the Netgear I have -
> don't have the support to become their own Master Browser for a group
> and therefore can only join as a participating member of a group.
> The hierarchy displayed with the Windows Network/Neighborhood shows:
> Workgroup Names
> then Computer Host Name, or Print Server Name, or whatever host
>device
> for computers, then the shared folders and shared physical
>devices
> for the print server, the P1 port name

Netbios printing does NOT use port names. It uses "device names".
LPR/LPD and some other print system, use port names. This should be a
clue.

Also, be careful with line wrap on the cut-n-paste.

> I have a NAS (network attached storage) running in it's own workgroup
>name,
> and it appears as a "computer" with it's sub-folders.

Yep. If the PS101 actually supported NETBIOS printing, it also would
appear as a device.

>SO - I was guessing that the print server would act as a "computer" with a
>printer attached,
>just like we see in the Windows Network display with our real computers and
>their associated printers.

Good guess. I assumed the same thing when Netgear advertised Windoze
printing. However, there are other forms of printing available on
Windoze which includes LPR/LPD.

Hint: Methinks (not sure) that the PS101 is a one port version of the
PS104. I scribbled a document on how to setup the PS104 for SCO Unix
using LPR/LPD. See:
<http://members.cruzio.com/~jeffl/sco/lp/netgear.htm>
See if you can get it to belch something by sending a file to IP port
4010. If it works, then it's not even LPR/LPD. It's printing
directly to an IP port number.

>> PS101 v1 or v2? Big difference inside.

Look at the serial number tag. Does is say nothing after the model
number? If nothing, then it's a v1. If it says v2, it's a v2. If
you want specific answers, it's considered good form to supply
specifics.

>>> The Netgear PS101 default and non-changeable workgroup name is in
>>> fact "WORKGROUP".
>>
>> <ftp://downloads.netgear.com/files/PS%20101%20RefGuide.zip>
>> See Fig 4-12 for how to change the unchangeable workgroup name.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

> If all else fails, you can try the Netgear Forums at:
> <http://forum1.netgear.com>
> for specifics on the PS101.
>
>>> I can tell you don't understand how Windoze Workgroups work. Search
>>> Google for "browser service" such as:
>>> <http://support.microsoft.com/kb/188001>
>>
>> I thought I understood the NBT browser service & master browser
>> selection process.
>
> It's master browser election, not selection. I'll stand on my
> observation.
>
>> BUT - it appears the print servers - all, or just the Netgear I
>> have - don't have the support to become their own Master Browser
>> for a group and therefore can only join as a participating member
>> of a group. The hierarchy displayed with the Windows
>> Network/Neighborhood shows: Workgroup Names
>> then Computer Host Name, or Print Server Name, or
>> whatever host device
>> for computers, then the shared folders and shared physical
>> devices
>> for the print server, the P1 port name
>
> Netbios printing does NOT use port names. It uses "device names".
> LPR/LPD and some other print system, use port names. This should be a
> clue.
>
> Also, be careful with line wrap on the cut-n-paste.
>
>> I have a NAS (network attached storage) running in it's own
>> workgroup name,
>> and it appears as a "computer" with it's sub-folders.
>
> Yep. If the PS101 actually supported NETBIOS printing, it also would
> appear as a device.
>
>> SO - I was guessing that the print server would act as a "computer"
>> with a printer attached,
>> just like we see in the Windows Network display with our real
>> computers and their associated printers.
>
> Good guess. I assumed the same thing when Netgear advertised Windoze
> printing. However, there are other forms of printing available on
> Windoze which includes LPR/LPD.
>
> Hint: Methinks (not sure) that the PS101 is a one port version of the
> PS104. I scribbled a document on how to setup the PS104 for SCO Unix
> using LPR/LPD. See:
> <http://members.cruzio.com/~jeffl/sco/lp/netgear.htm>
> See if you can get it to belch something by sending a file to IP port
> 4010. If it works, then it's not even LPR/LPD. It's printing
> directly to an IP port number.
>
>>> PS101 v1 or v2? Big difference inside.
>
> Look at the serial number tag. Does is say nothing after the model
> number? If nothing, then it's a v1. If it says v2, it's a v2. If
> you want specific answers, it's considered good form to supply
> specifics.
>
>>>> The Netgear PS101 default and non-changeable workgroup name is in
>>>> fact "WORKGROUP".
>>>
>>> <ftp://downloads.netgear.com/files/PS%20101%20RefGuide.zip>
>>> See Fig 4-12 for how to change the unchangeable workgroup name.
>
> --

I had it all working just fine via the Windows direct print via the TCP/IP
port.
Was basically looking for some info on why it didn't appear to the network
like the NAS drive,
but since it's just the basic LPR device, that pretty much covers it.

I'll follow up in the other newsgroup.

> The Netgear PS101 default and non-changeable workgroup name is in fact
> "WORKGROUP".

Not according to it's manual. Use the setup program for it. That let's you
set its workgroup.