Claranet speeds not what they were :(

Hi all

I've had business broadband at 8M from Claranet for about 10 months and have
always achieved speeds of around 6.4M. Been relatively happy with that as I
am 2Km from the exchange and my office is in the sticks with cabling from a
pole outside the building. However a few weeks ago this noticeably dropped
off and I started doing regular speed tests. I regularly checked the speed
using ThinkBroadband from the time of installation but unfortunately didn't
do any tests between the end of November and the middle of January when I
noticed the speed drop. In November is was still up at 6.4 as it had been
for months. When I started testing in January it was all over the place
from 1M up to 5M and everything in between. I've also used the BT speedtest
page and got similar results.

So complained to Claranet and after the usual week of run-around convinced
them to get a BT engineer out. We do have regular line outages on other
lines (not the DSL line though) so thought it might be a loose connection
somewhere. He tested the line on his laptop today using the BT socket my
router is connected to and insists that the signal is reaching my router at
8128 and I have seen this myself on my router status page.

So he left having convinced me that I had a faulty router. So went out
tonight and bought a new one and installed it and got the same results! So
then suspected the NIC in my desktop machine so tried connecting it straight
to my laptop using a PCMCIA network card and still get the same results. So
I have eliminated the problem being the router, the NIC, any part of our
internal network and the BT guy has tested the line from the socket I use
and says its also fine.

So my question is what's going on? Have Claranet throttled back the
connection and not told me? If so why, and is there any way I can find out
if this is the case. Its certain the Clara aren't going to tell me
themselves if they haven't mentioned it so far (although I will ask them
tomorrow). If they are tinkering with the bandwidth would this not show up
in my router diagnostics?

If BT engineer says that the signal is getting here at 8128 is that correct?
I always assumed that this figure being reported by the router was just a
generic figure indicating an 8Meg line was active, not that I was actually
getting that speed. Surely if I am getting 8128 at 2Km from the exchange
there's no loss on the line at all which sounds unlikely. I've never
achieved anything over 7Mg in speed tests so again I don't understand how
the router can be reporting over 8M.

Feeling a bit like someone is giving me duff info here but not sure who. So
any help or insights would be much appreciated.

Apologies for the longish post

Ian
Oxford




Ian Middleton

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Ian Middleton <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>If BT engineer says that the signal is getting here at 8128 is that correct?

We don't know as we can't see your router, but you can.

So why not log onto your routers web interface and have a look?

>I always assumed that this figure being reported by the router was just a
>generic figure indicating an 8Meg line was active, not that I was actually
>getting that speed.

It's the figure that the router is actually talking to the exchange at.
What happens after that is anyones guess.

From my router:

Up-speed: 832000
Down-speed: 8128000

> Surely if I am getting 8128 at 2Km from the exchange
>there's no loss on the line at all which sounds unlikely. I've never
>achieved anything over 7Mg in speed tests so again I don't understand how
>the router can be reporting over 8M.

You won't get much over 7Mb/sec anyway - that's the way it is.
(Google for how ADSL works in the UK if you want to know more)

>Feeling a bit like someone is giving me duff info here but not sure who. So
>any help or insights would be much appreciated.

There are several things that could be going on now - assuminmg your
router is connecting at the full (or nearly full) speed. Firstly, have
you forgotten that you've bought a contended service? You may be sharing
the path out of the exchange with up to 19 other people (20:1 contention
for a business service, but I don't think it's quite works that was now,
however, it's still contended) Also there might be a problem at the
exchange which they're not telling you about - I had this initially -
they called it a VC problem, and finally, it might just be that your
ISP is overloaded in their own network and/or their interface with BT...

If they're not being helpful, get a MAC and move on... (But that won't
solve the BT VC problem - try looking at the Sam knows site to see if it
indicates a problem)

Gordon

Thanks Gordon

I appreciate that you can't see my router and I think I did go on to explain
more fully my question about the connection speed.

Yes I have already looked at my routers status page and that was the speed
it reported ( I also said that in my original post). My question was that
if it was connecting at that speed why am I not getting that speed on my
speed tests. Probably a lack in my understanding about how it all works.

I was also curious as to why everyone (you included) seems to report the
figure of 8128 as the connection speed as it seemed to me that routers were
just reporting a generic speed. I.e it can see that an 8M connection is
enabled so it reports it as 8128 as that's the standard speed an 8M
connection should be at without it actually being a proper real time
measurement of the actual speed which I would think it would fluctuate and
depend on a lot of physical factors. Similar to how we see an HD described
as 40Gb when if fact its slightly less than that.

The issue of contention is a good point. As my office is a bit out in the
sticks I may possibly have been on a newer connection point without many
others contending but a nearly 50% or more fall off on speed of a 20:1 ratio
in a matter of weeks seems a bit severe, especially as I do a lot of my
tests in the wee small hours when I would imagine most business users are
tucked up in bed. I didn't notice any slight fall off before or a gradual
slowdown just a sudden huge drop in connection speed. I will have to go
back to Clara and see if they might be able to do something at their end or
at least explain the situation.

Like I said above I'm a bit green on some of the terminology. What do you
mean by 'get a MAC'?. I will also look on the site you mentioned to try to
get my head around this a bit more.

Many thanks for your help and advice.

Ian

"Gordon Henderson" <gordon+(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:fnuldl$17at$(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Ian Middleton <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>If BT engineer says that the signal is getting here at 8128 is that
>>correct?
>
> We don't know as we can't see your router, but you can.
>
> So why not log onto your routers web interface and have a look?
>
>>I always assumed that this figure being reported by the router was just a
>>generic figure indicating an 8Meg line was active, not that I was actually
>>getting that speed.
>
> It's the figure that the router is actually talking to the exchange at.
> What happens after that is anyones guess.
>
> From my router:
>
> Up-speed: 832000
> Down-speed: 8128000
>
>> Surely if I am getting 8128 at 2Km from the exchange
>>there's no loss on the line at all which sounds unlikely. I've never
>>achieved anything over 7Mg in speed tests so again I don't understand how
>>the router can be reporting over 8M.
>
> You won't get much over 7Mb/sec anyway - that's the way it is.
> (Google for how ADSL works in the UK if you want to know more)
>
>>Feeling a bit like someone is giving me duff info here but not sure who.
>>So
>>any help or insights would be much appreciated.
>
> There are several things that could be going on now - assuminmg your
> router is connecting at the full (or nearly full) speed. Firstly, have
> you forgotten that you've bought a contended service? You may be sharing
> the path out of the exchange with up to 19 other people (20:1 contention
> for a business service, but I don't think it's quite works that was now,
> however, it's still contended) Also there might be a problem at the
> exchange which they're not telling you about - I had this initially -
> they called it a VC problem, and finally, it might just be that your
> ISP is overloaded in their own network and/or their interface with BT...
>
> If they're not being helpful, get a MAC and move on... (But that won't
> solve the BT VC problem - try looking at the Sam knows site to see if it
> indicates a problem)
>
> Gordon

Ian Middleton wrote:
> Thanks Gordon
>
> I appreciate that you can't see my router and I think I did go on to
> explain more fully my question about the connection speed.
>
> Yes I have already looked at my routers status page and that was the
> speed it reported ( I also said that in my original post). My
> question was that if it was connecting at that speed why am I not
> getting that speed on my speed tests. Probably a lack in my
> understanding about how it all works.
> I was also curious as to why everyone (you included) seems to report
> the figure of 8128 as the connection speed as it seemed to me that
> routers were just reporting a generic speed. I.e it can see that an
> 8M connection is enabled so it reports it as 8128 as that's the
> standard speed an 8M connection should be at without it actually
> being a proper real time measurement of the actual speed which I
> would think it would fluctuate and depend on a lot of physical
> factors.

This link will help you understand the relationship between the speed that
the router synchs with the exchange and the actual "throughput" speed that
you get. Scroll down the page to the table and you'll see the info you need.

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/IPprofile.htm

John

Ian Middleton wrote:
> Thanks Gordon
>
> I appreciate that you can't see my router and I think I did go on to explain
> more fully my question about the connection speed.
>
> Yes I have already looked at my routers status page and that was the speed
> it reported ( I also said that in my original post). My question was that
> if it was connecting at that speed why am I not getting that speed on my
> speed tests. Probably a lack in my understanding about how it all works.
>

Go to www.kitz.co.uk and read up.

Its not rocket science.

> I was also curious as to why everyone (you included) seems to report the
> figure of 8128 as the connection speed as it seemed to me that routers were
> just reporting a generic speed. I.e it can see that an 8M connection is
> enabled so it reports it as 8128 as that's the standard speed an 8M
> connection should be at without it actually being a proper real time
> measurement of the actual speed which I would think it would fluctuate and
> depend on a lot of physical factors. Similar to how we see an HD described
> as 40Gb when if fact its slightly less than that.
>
> The issue of contention is a good point. As my office is a bit out in the
> sticks I may possibly have been on a newer connection point without many
> others contending but a nearly 50% or more fall off on speed of a 20:1 ratio
> in a matter of weeks seems a bit severe, especially as I do a lot of my
> tests in the wee small hours when I would imagine most business users are
> tucked up in bed. I didn't notice any slight fall off before or a gradual
> slowdown just a sudden huge drop in connection speed. I will have to go
> back to Clara and see if they might be able to do something at their end or
> at least explain the situation.

What may have happened is a period of bad interference that has caused a
reset in your BRAS or noise margin. or both.

YOU can see your BRAS profile from here.

https://customer.clara.net/

Log in with what you use inside the router to connect, and check
'synchronisation report'

Let us know what it says.

If its working that is..half the time it isn;t ;-)


>
> Like I said above I'm a bit green on some of the terminology. What do you
> mean by 'get a MAC'?. I will also look on the site you mentioned to try to
> get my head around this a bit more.
>

getting a MAC means getting a code to move the service elsewhere. I
wouldn't. Clara are among the best of a bad lot, and if you have an
issue, they will generally resolve it.

What Clara service are you on?
What actual download speeds are you getting?
What is your raw connection speed as reported by the router?
What is the noise margin reported by the router?
What is your BRAS profile as reported by Clara's link to BT?


Its a tricky business working out what's gone wrong, not the least
because its a complex interaction between your kit, BT'S kit, the line,
BT'S algorithms and so on. Then there is contention to be thought about,
and I know that Clara are upgrading some of their backbone right now, so
that's not out of the mix either.

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Ian Middleton <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Thanks Gordon
>
>I appreciate that you can't see my router and I think I did go on to explain
>more fully my question about the connection speed.
>
>Yes I have already looked at my routers status page and that was the speed
>it reported ( I also said that in my original post). My question was that
>if it was connecting at that speed why am I not getting that speed on my
>speed tests. Probably a lack in my understanding about how it all works.

Others have posted links to sites, but essentially, your modem will
sync. to the exchange at a set speed and usually stay at that speed
forever. (factors that can influence this are your local wiring, the
wore outside, etc. and the weather, although it shouldn't change if all
the connections, etc. are reasonably good)

On top of that, BT have a data speed cap, that you can lookup in a table
on the links that have been posted. So for an "8Mb" connection
(8128Kb/sec) you're capped at 7150Kb/sec. This rate shouldn't change
either, unless your line rate changes - rare.

>I was also curious as to why everyone (you included) seems to report the
>figure of 8128 as the connection speed as it seemed to me that routers were
>just reporting a generic speed. I.e it can see that an 8M connection is
>enabled so it reports it as 8128 as that's the standard speed an 8M
>connection should be at without it actually being a proper real time
>measurement of the actual speed which I would think it would fluctuate and
>depend on a lot of physical factors. Similar to how we see an HD described
>as 40Gb when if fact its slightly less than that.

So data between your modem and the exchange is "fixed" at the "8Mb"
speed. It's what happens after that that's usually the issue. (But do
check your router during a slow period and see if it's disconnected, or
shifted to a slower sync. speed)

After the exchange, you are then (usually) in the BT Wholesale network,
and this is where contention happens. The exchange itself could be short
of bandwidth (rare, but it happend to me )-: So enter youe phone number
& postcode into:

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/checker2.php

and see what it says about the exchange. (Not 100% accurate, but it
might give you an indication)

Then, once the data gets through the contended BT Wholesale network it
comes into your ISPs network. And this is another potendial place where
contention can happen. They might not have enough capacity at the BT
interface, and/or they might not have enoguh capacity insude their own
network, and/or they might not have enough capacity when they connect to
other ISPs and the rest of the Internet in-general.

Although Clara has a reasonably good name IIRC, so I'd hope that their
own internal network is OK.


>The issue of contention is a good point. As my office is a bit out in the
>sticks I may possibly have been on a newer connection point without many
>others contending but a nearly 50% or more fall off on speed of a 20:1 ratio
>in a matter of weeks seems a bit severe, especially as I do a lot of my
>tests in the wee small hours when I would imagine most business users are
>tucked up in bed. I didn't notice any slight fall off before or a gradual
>slowdown just a sudden huge drop in connection speed. I will have to go
>back to Clara and see if they might be able to do something at their end or
>at least explain the situation.

Tell them BT have come and checked, and push them to check with BT again
about exchange capacity. Zen were able to push BT and get some sense out
of them when my local exchange was borked and they eventually made
things better, so keep pushing them, but if you get no-joy ...

>Like I said above I'm a bit green on some of the terminology. What do you
>mean by 'get a MAC'?. I will also look on the site you mentioned to try to
>get my head around this a bit more.

MAC is a Migration Auth. Code. It's a magic number that lets you migrate
to another ISP seamlessly. (in theory) and most of the time without
incuring a new connection setup fee.

Gordon

>
>Many thanks for your help and advice.
>
>Ian
>
>"Gordon Henderson" <gordon+(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:fnuldl$17at$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
>> Ian Middleton <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>If BT engineer says that the signal is getting here at 8128 is that
>>>correct?
>>
>> We don't know as we can't see your router, but you can.
>>
>> So why not log onto your routers web interface and have a look?
>>
>>>I always assumed that this figure being reported by the router was just a
>>>generic figure indicating an 8Meg line was active, not that I was actually
>>>getting that speed.
>>
>> It's the figure that the router is actually talking to the exchange at.
>> What happens after that is anyones guess.
>>
>> From my router:
>>
>> Up-speed: 832000
>> Down-speed: 8128000
>>
>>> Surely if I am getting 8128 at 2Km from the exchange
>>>there's no loss on the line at all which sounds unlikely. I've never
>>>achieved anything over 7Mg in speed tests so again I don't understand how
>>>the router can be reporting over 8M.
>>
>> You won't get much over 7Mb/sec anyway - that's the way it is.
>> (Google for how ADSL works in the UK if you want to know more)
>>
>>>Feeling a bit like someone is giving me duff info here but not sure who.
>>>So
>>>any help or insights would be much appreciated.
>>
>> There are several things that could be going on now - assuminmg your
>> router is connecting at the full (or nearly full) speed. Firstly, have
>> you forgotten that you've bought a contended service? You may be sharing
>> the path out of the exchange with up to 19 other people (20:1 contention
>> for a business service, but I don't think it's quite works that was now,
>> however, it's still contended) Also there might be a problem at the
>> exchange which they're not telling you about - I had this initially -
>> they called it a VC problem, and finally, it might just be that your
>> ISP is overloaded in their own network and/or their interface with BT...
>>
>> If they're not being helpful, get a MAC and move on... (But that won't
>> solve the BT VC problem - try looking at the Sam knows site to see if it
>> indicates a problem)
>>
>> Gordon
>
>

On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:22:51 +0000, Ian Middleton wrote:

> I was also curious as to why everyone (you included) seems to report the
> figure of 8128 as the connection speed as it seemed to me that routers
> were just reporting a generic speed. I.e it can see that an 8M
> connection is enabled so it reports it as 8128 as that's the standard
> speed an 8M connection should be at without it actually being a proper
> real time measurement of the actual speed which I would think it would
> fluctuate and depend on a lot of physical factors.

The reason one frequently sees 8128k as the sync speed is that 8128k is
the maximum speed BT will negotiate. The outcome of the negotiation is
determined by how well each end [router and exchange] can hear each
other. As 8128k an artificial limit set by BT, and many people's setups
are capable of higher sync speeds, one sees a lot of lines synced at
8128k. When I moved from a BT reseller to Be, my sync speed went from
8128k to 16300k [although that's partly because BT use ADSL2 and Be use
ADSL2+].

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ((E-Mail Removed))
16:55:18 up 27 days, 7:21, 2 users, load average: 1.16, 1.15, 1.21
Convergence, n: The act of using separate DSL circuits for voice and data

Hi

Sorry for the huge delay in responding been away for a while.

I've also been trying to get the information that you suggested but as you
suspected the Clara Admin site will not give me a synch report. Just keeps
saying that the data is not available.

I am still on the same situation and I am pushing Clara to do something
about it. They are saying that they are in the hands of BT though so that
doesn't inspire me with confidence.

In answer to your other questions

What Clara service are you on? - Clara Max Business T
What actual download speeds are you getting? - from 1.5 to 4.5 (previously
around 6.7 average for 8 months)
What is your raw connection speed as reported by the router? - 8128
What is the noise margin reported by the router? - as below (BT engineer
said these figures were pretty respectable - I am 2Km from the exchange)

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8128 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 29.0 db 17.0 db
Noise Margin 8.6 db 20.0 db


What is your BRAS profile as reported by Clara's link to BT? - I'm not sure
where I get this info from. The BT speedtester page today reported a speed
of 1916 Kbps but not sure if that's what you are asking me for. I can't
find a tool on the web to give me a BRAS profile and the Clara admin site
won't give me any synch data as I said above.

The service I have should give me 8M and yes I know I will never actually
GET 8M but as I said previously I had a rock solid 6.5 - 7 connection for
about 8 months before these problems started. It now reports speeds of
between 1.5 and 4.5 with occasional blips at around 5. I could understand
if it had dropped off a bit and then stayed at a steady rate as before. I
could then accept that this was a contention ratio issue or network
congestion, but it really is bouncing all over the place on a daily basis,
sometimes even minute to minute. I would also have thought that other
subscribers would have complained as will which doesn't seem to have
happened.

So I guess I am stuck with continually pushing Clara then. They do give the
impression of being concerned about it but it does seem like you are stuck a
long way down the foodchain as the subscriber as you never feel like you are
talking to the person that can actually do anything about it.

Thanks to everyone who gave me advice. It has been an education, and I'll
post back if I ever do get a resolution. If anyone else has any ideas on
what I shoudl do next all advice will be gratefully received.

Ian
Oxford


"The Natural Philosopher" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Ian Middleton wrote:
>> Thanks Gordon
>>
>> I appreciate that you can't see my router and I think I did go on to
>> explain more fully my question about the connection speed.
>>
>> Yes I have already looked at my routers status page and that was the
>> speed it reported ( I also said that in my original post). My question
>> was that if it was connecting at that speed why am I not getting that
>> speed on my speed tests. Probably a lack in my understanding about how
>> it all works.
>>
>
> Go to www.kitz.co.uk and read up.
>
> Its not rocket science.
>
>> I was also curious as to why everyone (you included) seems to report the
>> figure of 8128 as the connection speed as it seemed to me that routers
>> were just reporting a generic speed. I.e it can see that an 8M
>> connection is enabled so it reports it as 8128 as that's the standard
>> speed an 8M connection should be at without it actually being a proper
>> real time measurement of the actual speed which I would think it would
>> fluctuate and depend on a lot of physical factors. Similar to how we see
>> an HD described as 40Gb when if fact its slightly less than that.
>>
>> The issue of contention is a good point. As my office is a bit out in
>> the sticks I may possibly have been on a newer connection point without
>> many others contending but a nearly 50% or more fall off on speed of a
>> 20:1 ratio in a matter of weeks seems a bit severe, especially as I do a
>> lot of my tests in the wee small hours when I would imagine most business
>> users are tucked up in bed. I didn't notice any slight fall off before
>> or a gradual slowdown just a sudden huge drop in connection speed. I
>> will have to go back to Clara and see if they might be able to do
>> something at their end or at least explain the situation.
>
> What may have happened is a period of bad interference that has caused a
> reset in your BRAS or noise margin. or both.
>
> YOU can see your BRAS profile from here.
>
> https://customer.clara.net/
>
> Log in with what you use inside the router to connect, and check
> 'synchronisation report'
>
> Let us know what it says.
>
> If its working that is..half the time it isn;t ;-)
>
>
>>
>> Like I said above I'm a bit green on some of the terminology. What do
>> you mean by 'get a MAC'?. I will also look on the site you mentioned to
>> try to get my head around this a bit more.
>>
>
> getting a MAC means getting a code to move the service elsewhere. I
> wouldn't. Clara are among the best of a bad lot, and if you have an issue,
> they will generally resolve it.
>
> What Clara service are you on?
> What actual download speeds are you getting?
> What is your raw connection speed as reported by the router?
> What is the noise margin reported by the router?
> What is your BRAS profile as reported by Clara's link to BT?
>
>
> Its a tricky business working out what's gone wrong, not the least because
> its a complex interaction between your kit, BT'S kit, the line, BT'S
> algorithms and so on. Then there is contention to be thought about, and I
> know that Clara are upgrading some of their backbone right now, so that's
> not out of the mix either.

Ian Middleton wrote:
> Hi
>
> Sorry for the huge delay in responding been away for a while.
>
> I've also been trying to get the information that you suggested but as you
> suspected the Clara Admin site will not give me a synch report. Just keeps
> saying that the data is not available.
>

Me too, it does that from time to time. They get it from BT..or not,as
teh case may be.



> I am still on the same situation and I am pushing Clara to do something
> about it. They are saying that they are in the hands of BT though so that
> doesn't inspire me with confidence.
>
> In answer to your other questions
>
> What Clara service are you on? - Clara Max Business T
> What actual download speeds are you getting? - from 1.5 to 4.5 (previously
> around 6.7 average for 8 months)
> What is your raw connection speed as reported by the router? - 8128
> What is the noise margin reported by the router? - as below (BT engineer
> said these figures were pretty respectable - I am 2Km from the exchange)
>
> ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
> Connection Speed 8128 kbps 448 kbps
> Line Attenuation 29.0 db 17.0 db
> Noise Margin 8.6 db 20.0 db
>
>
> What is your BRAS profile as reported by Clara's link to BT? - I'm not sure
> where I get this info from. The BT speedtester page today reported a speed
> of 1916 Kbps but not sure if that's what you are asking me for. I can't
> find a tool on the web to give me a BRAS profile and the Clara admin site
> won't give me any synch data as I said above.

Yup. Its borked at the moment.

>
> The service I have should give me 8M and yes I know I will never actually
> GET 8M but as I said previously I had a rock solid 6.5 - 7 connection for
> about 8 months before these problems started. It now reports speeds of
> between 1.5 and 4.5 with occasional blips at around 5.

That suggests your BRAS is at least 5 then...so that probably is NOT the
problem.


I could understand
> if it had dropped off a bit and then stayed at a steady rate as before. I
> could then accept that this was a contention ratio issue or network
> congestion, but it really is bouncing all over the place on a daily basis,
> sometimes even minute to minute. I would also have thought that other
> subscribers would have complained as will which doesn't seem to have
> happened.

Mmm. Thats sounds to me like congestion..or maybe someine is mounting an
DOS attack on your router? I get a ping storm attack about 4 times a month..


Pick some target at clara and ping it, repeatedly, and look at the
packet delays. If there is some kind of fluctuation in congestion and
quality you will get variable delays and maybe lost packets.

Have a look at the raw error rate on the ADSL as well. I you are getting
bursts of noise that an really affect throughput as packets have to stop
and be transmitted.

Note also that the uptake of the BBC Iplayer has pushed many networks
beyond design limit..


>
> So I guess I am stuck with continually pushing Clara then. They do give the
> impression of being concerned about it but it does seem like you are stuck a
> long way down the foodchain as the subscriber as you never feel like you are
> talking to the person that can actually do anything about it.
>
> Thanks to everyone who gave me advice. It has been an education, and I'll
> post back if I ever do get a resolution. If anyone else has any ideas on
> what I shoudl do next all advice will be gratefully received.
>

I think you need to contunue top learn how to understand what is going
in in order to get to the root of this. Clara can't be expected to want
to spend days sorting out a small issue fir one customer. If OTOH you
can tell them definitively what the problem is, they are responsive top it.

Thanks for the response.

We do get the odd burst of DoS traffic. Nothing really major though so I
wouldn't have thought it would make that much difference.

I take you point about Clara but they are offering a business service so
they can't really expect their customers to do all the graft for them can
they? I'm paying £75 a month for an 8Mb connection so I think its
reasonable to expect that I should be able to rely on come close to that
especially as its already been proven that my connection is capable of much
better. Anyway my experience is that even if you do know what you are
talking about you rarely get to talk to anyone at the other end who is
equally clued in. So you can spout technobabble at them all day and they
still say "I'll have to pass it on to someone else".

I have been monitoring the connection, noise levels etc and nothing really
jumps out at me. I could even live with this if I got a reliable connection
at around 4.5 consistently but just when I think its levelled off in that
region, it nosedives to 1.5 or something.

Its interesting what you say about Iplayer but wouldn't BT be able to figure
that out as the problem and tell me or Clara that its a network traffic
issue? One of the guys at Clara mentioned that they were rolling out an
unbundled service. Would I be better to press for that with our connection
do you think?

Ian


"The Natural Philosopher" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Ian Middleton wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> Sorry for the huge delay in responding been away for a while.
>>
>> I've also been trying to get the information that you suggested but as
>> you suspected the Clara Admin site will not give me a synch report. Just
>> keeps saying that the data is not available.
>>
>
> Me too, it does that from time to time. They get it from BT..or not,as teh
> case may be.
>
>
>
>> I am still on the same situation and I am pushing Clara to do something
>> about it. They are saying that they are in the hands of BT though so
>> that doesn't inspire me with confidence.
>>
>> In answer to your other questions
>>
>> What Clara service are you on? - Clara Max Business T
>> What actual download speeds are you getting? - from 1.5 to 4.5
>> (previously around 6.7 average for 8 months)
>> What is your raw connection speed as reported by the router? - 8128
>> What is the noise margin reported by the router? - as below (BT engineer
>> said these figures were pretty respectable - I am 2Km from the exchange)
>>
>> ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
>> Connection Speed 8128 kbps 448 kbps
>> Line Attenuation 29.0 db 17.0 db
>> Noise Margin 8.6 db 20.0 db
>>
>>
>> What is your BRAS profile as reported by Clara's link to BT? - I'm not
>> sure where I get this info from. The BT speedtester page today reported
>> a speed of 1916 Kbps but not sure if that's what you are asking me for.
>> I can't find a tool on the web to give me a BRAS profile and the Clara
>> admin site won't give me any synch data as I said above.
>
> Yup. Its borked at the moment.
>
>>
>> The service I have should give me 8M and yes I know I will never actually
>> GET 8M but as I said previously I had a rock solid 6.5 - 7 connection for
>> about 8 months before these problems started. It now reports speeds of
>> between 1.5 and 4.5 with occasional blips at around 5.
>
> That suggests your BRAS is at least 5 then...so that probably is NOT the
> problem.
>
>
> I could understand
>> if it had dropped off a bit and then stayed at a steady rate as before.
>> I could then accept that this was a contention ratio issue or network
>> congestion, but it really is bouncing all over the place on a daily
>> basis, sometimes even minute to minute. I would also have thought that
>> other subscribers would have complained as will which doesn't seem to
>> have happened.
>
> Mmm. Thats sounds to me like congestion..or maybe someine is mounting an
> DOS attack on your router? I get a ping storm attack about 4 times a
> month..
>
>
> Pick some target at clara and ping it, repeatedly, and look at the packet
> delays. If there is some kind of fluctuation in congestion and quality you
> will get variable delays and maybe lost packets.
>
> Have a look at the raw error rate on the ADSL as well. I you are getting
> bursts of noise that an really affect throughput as packets have to stop
> and be transmitted.
>
> Note also that the uptake of the BBC Iplayer has pushed many networks
> beyond design limit..
>
>
>>
>> So I guess I am stuck with continually pushing Clara then. They do give
>> the impression of being concerned about it but it does seem like you are
>> stuck a long way down the foodchain as the subscriber as you never feel
>> like you are talking to the person that can actually do anything about
>> it.
>>
>> Thanks to everyone who gave me advice. It has been an education, and
>> I'll post back if I ever do get a resolution. If anyone else has any
>> ideas on what I shoudl do next all advice will be gratefully received.
>>
>
> I think you need to contunue top learn how to understand what is going in
> in order to get to the root of this. Clara can't be expected to want to
> spend days sorting out a small issue fir one customer. If OTOH you can
> tell them definitively what the problem is, they are responsive top it.
>
>