Roamin' on my ranch -- identifying locale

Please help me figure this one out. I used to be relatively competent in
wired networks, but that was years (yarns!) before WIFI hit the market.

I have a small ranch with numerous distinct "functional" buildings separated
far enough so access points don't reach from one to another -- in this case,
what I want.

My dad can't work an abacus, let alone a computer, but I want to enable him
to do inventories of our feed, supplies, fertilizer, tractor parts, etc.
For this purpose, I ebay-hooked a used Symbol 9660 handheld computer with a
bar code scanner. It runs Windows CE.net 4.2.

Each barn has an access point in a small office. Each office has a printer
on an ethernet print server. They're all connected to the main "server"
(no, not a server yet, just an XP box with a bunch of remote printers and
access points).

When _I_ go to each building, I pop up an excel spreadsheet unique to the
building, tally the goods, then print a "re-order" sheet on the local
printer (by manually selecting which printer I'll use). The sheet gets hung
up on a clip board for another helper to collect during rounds, and to fill
on his trip to town.

What I'd like dad to do is find that whenever he enters an access point's
field, a "web page" unique to the building automatically pops up, giving him
only the lists/fields appropriate to that building, and enabling him to just
scan what's there by 'dumb' trigger pulls on the 9660. No thinking, just
point-n-push. Then, by scanning a special bar code hung up on a post, to
trigger printing of the order sheet on that local printer.

So... how do I get an unique page to display when each access point is in
range? I think I can make the application select the printer - believe I
know how to do that. But how to I "push" a new page onto the browser from
each access point without any interaction on dad's behalf?

Was I clear? Dad's not terribly happy with "machines" doing what a pencil
could do. But heck... this is a toy, and it's fun (so far). Now I need to
make it so dad can use it. (please, don't say, "train him to do it"....
that _never_ did work<G>)

Thanks,

LLoyd


--
"... He commands an audience's inattention. His voice is a high baritone
honk.
Even when directed at me, I can scarcely distinguish between the sounds of
his
speech and the noise of a fat man's fart." -- Anon



Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:59:12 -0400, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<461b8a0d$0$16664$(E-Mail Removed)>:

>I have a small ranch with numerous distinct "functional" buildings separated
>far enough so access points don't reach from one to another -- in this case,
>what I want.

What do you mean by "reach"? Do you want just point-to-point links,
which can be quite long with clear line-of-sight and good antennas, or
do you want blanket outdoor coverage?

>My dad can't work an abacus, let alone a computer, but I want to enable him
>to do inventories of our feed, supplies, fertilizer, tractor parts, etc.
>For this purpose, I ebay-hooked a used Symbol 9660 handheld computer with a
>bar code scanner. It runs Windows CE.net 4.2.
>
>Each barn has an access point in a small office. Each office has a printer
>on an ethernet print server. They're all connected to the main "server"
>(no, not a server yet, just an XP box with a bunch of remote printers and
>access points).
>
>When _I_ go to each building, I pop up an excel spreadsheet unique to the
>building, tally the goods, then print a "re-order" sheet on the local
>printer (by manually selecting which printer I'll use). The sheet gets hung
>up on a clip board for another helper to collect during rounds, and to fill
>on his trip to town.
>
>What I'd like dad to do is find that whenever he enters an access point's
>field, a "web page" unique to the building automatically pops up, giving him
>only the lists/fields appropriate to that building, and enabling him to just
>scan what's there by 'dumb' trigger pulls on the 9660. No thinking, just
>point-n-push. Then, by scanning a special bar code hung up on a post, to
>trigger printing of the order sheet on that local printer.
>
>So... how do I get an unique page to display when each access point is in
>range? I think I can make the application select the printer - believe I
>know how to do that. But how to I "push" a new page onto the browser from
>each access point without any interaction on dad's behalf?

That could probably be accomplished by "hotspot" wireless routers in
each building, each of which has a different configuration and login
webpage. See wikis below for info on "hotspot" routers. For maximum
flexibility at low cost, consider running hotspot-enabled DD-WRT
firmware on suitable hardware, my own preference being Buffalo wireless
routers.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_How_To>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

"John Navas" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...

> What do you mean by "reach"? Do you want just point-to-point links,
> which can be quite long with clear line-of-sight and good antennas, or
> do you want blanket outdoor coverage?

I don't want an ad-hoc network, and the buildings are already bridged. I
have wireless access to the palmtop now... just not the "push" of a distinct
login page for each AP. The AP at each building is JUST so I can use the
Symbol 9660.


> That could probably be accomplished by "hotspot" wireless routers in
> each building, each of which has a different configuration and login
> webpage. See wikis below for info on "hotspot" routers. For maximum
> flexibility at low cost, consider running hotspot-enabled DD-WRT
> firmware on suitable hardware, my own preference being Buffalo wireless
> routers.

I don't recall what happens when I enter a hotspot... will the page just
push onto my browser, or will I have to invoke a refresh manually?

Thanks. I've already started downloading the wiki-recommended modules for
my RedHat machine.

LLoyd

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:55:36 -0400, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<461ba556$0$9931$(E-Mail Removed)>:

>> That could probably be accomplished by "hotspot" wireless routers in
>> each building, each of which has a different configuration and login
>> webpage. See wikis below for info on "hotspot" routers. For maximum
>> flexibility at low cost, consider running hotspot-enabled DD-WRT
>> firmware on suitable hardware, my own preference being Buffalo wireless
>> routers.
>
>I don't recall what happens when I enter a hotspot... will the page just
>push onto my browser, or will I have to invoke a refresh manually?

No push -- any web access is redirected by the hotspot router to the
login page.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_How_To>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

"John Navas" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
?
>
> No push -- any web access is redirected by the hotspot router to the
> login page.

Ok... I guess I could have a common Java applet running in every login page
that attempts to refresh the screen.

LLoyd

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:17:06 -0400, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<461bb871$0$9962$(E-Mail Removed)>:

>"John Navas" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>?
>> No push -- any web access is redirected by the hotspot router to the
>> login page.
>
>Ok... I guess I could have a common Java applet running in every login page
>that attempts to refresh the screen.

Auto refresh can be done without Java (or Javascript). What you have to
watch out for is annoying the user with too-frequent refreshes. I think
you'd be better off with something running on the mobile device that
watches for new network connections.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_How_To>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:59:12 -0400, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>My dad can't work an abacus, let alone a computer, but I want to enable him
>to do inventories of our feed, supplies, fertilizer, tractor parts, etc.

Sounds familiar. In the distant past, I had to translate all the
Altos AOS menus on my fathers computah into Polish in order for him to
use it effectively. I later arranged to do the same into Spanish for
the employees.

>For this purpose, I ebay-hooked a used Symbol 9660 handheld computer with a
>bar code scanner. It runs Windows CE.net 4.2.

Nice. What are you using for access points? What are you using for a
router? What application is your temporary server running? A web
server?

>When _I_ go to each building, I pop up an excel spreadsheet unique to the
>building, tally the goods, then print a "re-order" sheet on the local
>printer (by manually selecting which printer I'll use). The sheet gets hung
>up on a clip board for another helper to collect during rounds, and to fill
>on his trip to town.

You couldn't do this on one big Excel spreadsheet with all the various
barns listed? Excel can easily setup a spreadsheet into "sheets", one
for each barn.
<http://j-walk.com/ss/excel/usertips/tip049.htm>

>What I'd like dad to do is find that whenever he enters an access point's
>field, a "web page" unique to the building automatically pops up, giving him
>only the lists/fields appropriate to that building, and enabling him to just
>scan what's there by 'dumb' trigger pulls on the 9660. No thinking, just
>point-n-push. Then, by scanning a special bar code hung up on a post, to
>trigger printing of the order sheet on that local printer.

Ok. So have the bar code scan do everything for him. Have it run a
batch file or VBS script that starts the correct spreadsheet, and runs
an Excel Macro with whatever startup menu he needs. You don't need to
know which access point he's using as scanning the bar code on the
post will have that and the corresponding spreadsheet recorded. The
rest is programming, which I'm not very good at and don't want to
offer any code. However, with protected cells on the spreadsheet, and
custom menus, you should be able to create something useful.
<http://j-walk.com/ss/excel/tips/tip53.htm>
The menus can be invoked by a function key combination or button
somewhere on the spreadsheet.

>So... how do I get an unique page to display when each access point is in
>range?

You don't. You use the bar code scan on the pole to tell the computah
where it's located and which spreadsheet (or which sheet) to use.

>I think I can make the application select the printer - believe I
>know how to do that.

Same deal. The batch file or VBS script run from the bar code on the
pole selects the printer. Here are several ways to reset the default
printer on the fly:
<http://www.netadmintools.com/art194.html>
<http://www.ss64.com/nt/prnmngr.html>
or you can do it in VBS with an incantation:
<http://www.ss64.com/wsh/defaultprint.html>
If you're a true masochist, there's also this mess from Microsoft:
<http://support.microsoft.com/kb/246772>

>But how to I "push" a new page onto the browser from
>each access point without any interaction on dad's behalf?

Browser? What browser? I thought you were using an Excel spreadsheet
and not a web browser.

>Was I clear?

Not really. You described what you want to accomplish without much
concern for describing what you have to work with (hardware and
software).

>Dad's not terribly happy with "machines" doing what a pencil
>could do.

Hint: Automating the process will only make it worse. If he feels
he's not doing anything useful, he just won't do it, or possibly won't
even try. Leave in a few bugs that even he can find, so that he
doesn't feel like he's been replaced by a computah.

>But heck... this is a toy, and it's fun (so far). Now I need to
>make it so dad can use it. (please, don't say, "train him to do it"....
>that _never_ did work<G>)

That's a much bigger challenge than automating the system. It may be
fun for you, but not for him. Ask him how *he* wants to have it work
so that it's easier for him to do (i.e. less work, fewer keystrokes,
less reading, fewer steps, etc) and make it sufficiently reliable so
everything doesn't have to be done twice. You might be surprised at
what you learn in the process.

Incidentally, forget about putting a bar code on everything in sight.
That's the maintenance nightmare from hell. Look into RFID and do
your inventory while just walking around without any button pushing.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

John,

I'm not sure I have a handle on this yet, but I had a silly idea you'd be
able to critique easily.


Let's say I had a Linux box running Apache (or any other web server...
Apache is the only one I've ever configured).

Now, for grins, say I had several wireless APs scattered around the
property, each issuing connections in a different IP range and DHCP scope.

Could I make a single instance of the web server send a different "splash
page" to each IP range when a client connected to any given AP made an HTTP
request?

LLoyd

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:21:59 -0400, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<461e245a$0$17195$(E-Mail Removed)>:

>I'm not sure I have a handle on this yet, but I had a silly idea you'd be
>able to critique easily.
>
>Let's say I had a Linux box running Apache (or any other web server...
>Apache is the only one I've ever configured).
>
>Now, for grins, say I had several wireless APs scattered around the
>property, each issuing connections in a different IP range and DHCP scope.
>
>Could I make a single instance of the web server send a different "splash
>page" to each IP range when a client connected to any given AP made an HTTP
>request?

The most straightforward way to do that is to have each access point
forward its logins to a different URL, but you could also do virtual
domain hosting on the Apache server. Does that help?

But also consider having a monitor app on the wireless client computer
that watches the Internet connection, and reconfigures the wireless
client computer based on the DHCP-assigned IP address or domain.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

John Navas wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:21:59 -0400, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> <461e245a$0$17195$(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
>
>>I'm not sure I have a handle on this yet, but I had a silly idea you'd be
>>able to critique easily.
>>
>>Let's say I had a Linux box running Apache (or any other web server...
>>Apache is the only one I've ever configured).
>>
>>Now, for grins, say I had several wireless APs scattered around the
>>property, each issuing connections in a different IP range and DHCP scope.
>>
>>Could I make a single instance of the web server send a different "splash
>>page" to each IP range when a client connected to any given AP made an HTTP
>>request?
>
>
> The most straightforward way to do that is to have each access point
> forward its logins to a different URL, but you could also do virtual
> domain hosting on the Apache server. Does that help?
>
> But also consider having a monitor app on the wireless client computer
> that watches the Internet connection, and reconfigures the wireless
> client computer based on the DHCP-assigned IP address or domain.
>

I like the idea of the building-unique captive portals, but you have to
be sure you can't accidentally pick up the signal from a neighboring
building's AP. It would be irritating to be in Building A, and keep
getting re-directed the inventory screen for Building B.

A simple alternative might be barcode macros for each building's web
page. Have a sheet of barcodes somewhere convenient (in your pocket,
attached to the handheld, etc.) with a unique barcode for each building.
Have your dad shoot the barcode for whichever building he's presently
in to bring up that building's web page. This is pretty simple and
possibly less trouble-prone.

Either way, post what you end up decding; it sounds like a fun project.

-Jonathan