Macintosh extremely slow copying files to windows 200? Share

Hey Folks!

Any MAC users out there?

I have one Macintosh (OS = 10.2.8) on my Windows 2003 SBS Server with 25 Win
XP's. I have a Windows 2000 Member server connected to the SBS 2003 Server.
The Win2000 Server has Mac Services installed and a Share is setup for Mac
and Windows clients. The share is called GenPop, for "General Population".

The MAC has downloaded all it's software updates and they are set to auto
download.

All my Windows XP Clients copy files to the MAC / Win Share just fine. Lots
of speed and there are no problems. However the Macintosh 10.2.8 is
extremely (and I really mean EXTREMELY) slow copying files to the Windows
200? Share. (I setup a MAC/Windows share on the Windows 2003 server and I
had all kinds of problems connecting to it.) So I went back to the Win2000
Server.

And the MAC disconnects from the Windows 2000 server sometimes when copying
files, especially large ones. I never see it because I don't use the MAC
but the MAC user reports it to me.

I don't know very much about MAC's but I do know it is TOO SLOW. It seems
to have a 100mb NIC on it. I thought about trying to verify that it is
connecting to the LAN Switch at 100mb, Full Duplex, but I don't know how to
do that.

Does anyone have any other ideas on where to look to troubleshoot the
problem?

Thanks in advance.

Dale




Bikini Browser

Bikini Browser wrote:
> Hey Folks!
>
> Any MAC users out there?
>
> I have one Macintosh (OS = 10.2.8) on my Windows 2003 SBS Server with 25 Win
> XP's. I have a Windows 2000 Member server connected to the SBS 2003 Server.
> The Win2000 Server has Mac Services installed and a Share is setup for Mac
> and Windows clients. The share is called GenPop, for "General Population".
>
> The MAC has downloaded all it's software updates and they are set to auto
> download.
>
> All my Windows XP Clients copy files to the MAC / Win Share just fine. Lots
> of speed and there are no problems. However the Macintosh 10.2.8 is
> extremely (and I really mean EXTREMELY) slow copying files to the Windows
> 200? Share. (I setup a MAC/Windows share on the Windows 2003 server and I
> had all kinds of problems connecting to it.) So I went back to the Win2000
> Server.
>
> And the MAC disconnects from the Windows 2000 server sometimes when copying
> files, especially large ones. I never see it because I don't use the MAC
> but the MAC user reports it to me.
>
> I don't know very much about MAC's but I do know it is TOO SLOW. It seems
> to have a 100mb NIC on it. I thought about trying to verify that it is
> connecting to the LAN Switch at 100mb, Full Duplex, but I don't know how to
> do that.
>
> Does anyone have any other ideas on where to look to troubleshoot the
> problem?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Dale

Dale -

If you're using Services for Macintosh on the server, you're never going
to get "fast" file transfers between the Mac and the Mac share on the
server. Services for Macintosh emulates an AppleShare server on the SBS
box and uses the AppleTalk protocol to provide the communications.
AppleTalk has a LOT of overhead and is just nowhere nearly as efficient
as other communications protocols.

If you want to get faster communications between the Mac and the server,
you should configure the Mac to communicate to the sever via SMB instead
of AppleTalk. I've got a blog post that gives step-by-step instructions
for configuring the Mac and the SBS server. You can find it at
http://simultaneouspancakes.com/Less...erver-via-smb/.
Since you're running Mac OS 10.2.8, you'll have a little trouble if the
SBS box has an internal domain name ending in .local, but there are
workarounds (realistically, if you can upgrade the Mac to 10.4, that
would be best all around, but if you can't, it's not the end of the world).

hope that helps...

-Eriq
--
Eriq Neale - SBS MVP, Small Business Specialist, MCSE, Mac Guru
EON Consulting - www.eonconsulting.net
Author of Microsoft Small Business Server 2003 Unleashed
Listen to the eOnCall Radio broadcast at AIRtunZ
(www.airtunz.com) or hear past episodes at www.eoncall.com

>>If you're using Services for Macintosh on the server,<<
That is what I have the server configured for. The Share configured as a Mac
and Windows Share.

>>>Services for Macintosh emulates an AppleShare server on the SBS
box and uses the AppleTalk protocol to provide the communications.
AppleTalk has a LOT of overhead and is just nowhere nearly as efficient
as other communications protocols.
If you want to get faster communications between the Mac and the server,
you should configure the Mac to communicate to the sever via SMB instead
of AppleTalk.<<<

In fact, the Mac says SMB when it connects. Could that be the problem? The
Mac is using SMB and the Server is using AppleTalk. The server has
AppleTalk as a protocol in the networking properties. Could it be a
miss-match in the protocol?

Where else can I look to help improve the performance?

BTW: I called Apple and they said the same thing, that I should try to
upgrade to OS 10.4 and leave 10.2.8 behind. If I do that, do I have to
reinstall all the applications all over again like I would using Windows?
Can a MAC NOVICE and Windows Guru like me do the upgrade or do you think I
should sub-contract it out to a MAC Guru?

Your thoughts and opinion is greatly appreciated and valued.

Dale

"Eriq Neale [SBS MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
in message news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Bikini Browser wrote:
>> Hey Folks!
>>
>> Any MAC users out there?
>>
>> I have one Macintosh (OS = 10.2.8) on my Windows 2003 SBS Server with 25
>> Win XP's. I have a Windows 2000 Member server connected to the SBS 2003
>> Server. The Win2000 Server has Mac Services installed and a Share is
>> setup for Mac and Windows clients. The share is called GenPop, for
>> "General Population".
>>
>> The MAC has downloaded all it's software updates and they are set to auto
>> download.
>>
>> All my Windows XP Clients copy files to the MAC / Win Share just fine.
>> Lots of speed and there are no problems. However the Macintosh 10.2.8 is
>> extremely (and I really mean EXTREMELY) slow copying files to the Windows
>> 200? Share. (I setup a MAC/Windows share on the Windows 2003 server and I
>> had all kinds of problems connecting to it.) So I went back to the
>> Win2000 Server.
>>
>> And the MAC disconnects from the Windows 2000 server sometimes when
>> copying files, especially large ones. I never see it because I don't use
>> the MAC but the MAC user reports it to me.
>>
>> I don't know very much about MAC's but I do know it is TOO SLOW. It
>> seems to have a 100mb NIC on it. I thought about trying to verify that
>> it is connecting to the LAN Switch at 100mb, Full Duplex, but I don't
>> know how to do that.
>>
>> Does anyone have any other ideas on where to look to troubleshoot the
>> problem?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Dale
>
> Dale -
>
> If you're using Services for Macintosh on the server, you're never going
> to get "fast" file transfers between the Mac and the Mac share on the
> server. Services for Macintosh emulates an AppleShare server on the SBS
> box and uses the AppleTalk protocol to provide the communications.
> AppleTalk has a LOT of overhead and is just nowhere nearly as efficient as
> other communications protocols.
>
> If you want to get faster communications between the Mac and the server,
> you should configure the Mac to communicate to the sever via SMB instead
> of AppleTalk. I've got a blog post that gives step-by-step instructions
> for configuring the Mac and the SBS server. You can find it at
> http://simultaneouspancakes.com/Less...erver-via-smb/.
> Since you're running Mac OS 10.2.8, you'll have a little trouble if the
> SBS box has an internal domain name ending in .local, but there are
> workarounds (realistically, if you can upgrade the Mac to 10.4, that would
> be best all around, but if you can't, it's not the end of the world).
>
> hope that helps...
>
> -Eriq
> --
> Eriq Neale - SBS MVP, Small Business Specialist, MCSE, Mac Guru
> EON Consulting - www.eonconsulting.net
> Author of Microsoft Small Business Server 2003 Unleashed
> Listen to the eOnCall Radio broadcast at AIRtunZ
> (www.airtunz.com) or hear past episodes at www.eoncall.com

Eriq:

I have a few other questions:

We have the abilty to setup our own FTP Site on our OWN local LAN. Could I
use FTP to do my file transfers and possibly expect faster file transfers
that what I have now using a Windows 2000 Share and the SMB Protocol?
Remember that what I have now is EXTREMELY SLOW, taking SEVERAL HOURS to
transfer 5 or 6 megabytes.

Also, is there a software program I can install on the MAC 10.2.8 to allow
me to remote control it as I do with remote desktop using Windows? I really
want to work remotely on the MAC. I want to use a Windows PC to connect to
the MAC and remote control it.

Do you have any ideas?

Dale

"Eriq Neale [SBS MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
in message news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Bikini Browser wrote:
>> Hey Folks!
>>
>> Any MAC users out there?
>>
>> I have one Macintosh (OS = 10.2.8) on my Windows 2003 SBS Server with 25
>> Win XP's. I have a Windows 2000 Member server connected to the SBS 2003
>> Server. The Win2000 Server has Mac Services installed and a Share is
>> setup for Mac and Windows clients. The share is called GenPop, for
>> "General Population".
>>
>> The MAC has downloaded all it's software updates and they are set to auto
>> download.
>>
>> All my Windows XP Clients copy files to the MAC / Win Share just fine.
>> Lots of speed and there are no problems. However the Macintosh 10.2.8 is
>> extremely (and I really mean EXTREMELY) slow copying files to the Windows
>> 200? Share. (I setup a MAC/Windows share on the Windows 2003 server and I
>> had all kinds of problems connecting to it.) So I went back to the
>> Win2000 Server.
>>
>> And the MAC disconnects from the Windows 2000 server sometimes when
>> copying files, especially large ones. I never see it because I don't use
>> the MAC but the MAC user reports it to me.
>>
>> I don't know very much about MAC's but I do know it is TOO SLOW. It
>> seems to have a 100mb NIC on it. I thought about trying to verify that
>> it is connecting to the LAN Switch at 100mb, Full Duplex, but I don't
>> know how to do that.
>>
>> Does anyone have any other ideas on where to look to troubleshoot the
>> problem?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Dale
>
> Dale -
>
> If you're using Services for Macintosh on the server, you're never going
> to get "fast" file transfers between the Mac and the Mac share on the
> server. Services for Macintosh emulates an AppleShare server on the SBS
> box and uses the AppleTalk protocol to provide the communications.
> AppleTalk has a LOT of overhead and is just nowhere nearly as efficient as
> other communications protocols.
>
> If you want to get faster communications between the Mac and the server,
> you should configure the Mac to communicate to the sever via SMB instead
> of AppleTalk. I've got a blog post that gives step-by-step instructions
> for configuring the Mac and the SBS server. You can find it at
> http://simultaneouspancakes.com/Less...erver-via-smb/.
> Since you're running Mac OS 10.2.8, you'll have a little trouble if the
> SBS box has an internal domain name ending in .local, but there are
> workarounds (realistically, if you can upgrade the Mac to 10.4, that would
> be best all around, but if you can't, it's not the end of the world).
>
> hope that helps...
>
> -Eriq
> --
> Eriq Neale - SBS MVP, Small Business Specialist, MCSE, Mac Guru
> EON Consulting - www.eonconsulting.net
> Author of Microsoft Small Business Server 2003 Unleashed
> Listen to the eOnCall Radio broadcast at AIRtunZ
> (www.airtunz.com) or hear past episodes at www.eoncall.com

Sorry for the delayed response, Dale. Been dealing with a couple of
disaster recoveries this week.

First thing I would do is remove Services for Macintosh from the
server. You don't need it. That will eliminate any confusion about
which method the Mac is using to connect to the server.

Second, did you follow the steps outlined in my post to configure the
Mac to connect via SMB? At this point, it's probably time to get an
ipconfig /all from the server and an ifconfig en0 from the Mac and post
those back here.

Depending on the Mac hardware you've got, you *should* be able to do an
in-place upgrade from 10.2 to 10.4. the only reason I comment aout the
hardware is that there are older Macs that will run up to 10.2 but
nothing later. If the Mac is only a few years old, it should handle the
upgrade fine. No need to reinstall ay apps, provided they are 10.4
compatible (I'm not familiar with any off-hand that are not, but I
don't know about every Mac program out there, either).

HTH...

-Eriq

On 2007-01-28 17:26:13 -0600, "Bikini Browser"
<(E-Mail Removed)> said:

>>> If you're using Services for Macintosh on the server,<<
> That is what I have the server configured for. The Share configured as
> a Mac and Windows Share.
>
>>>> Services for Macintosh emulates an AppleShare server on the SBS
> box and uses the AppleTalk protocol to provide the communications.
> AppleTalk has a LOT of overhead and is just nowhere nearly as efficient
> as other communications protocols.
> If you want to get faster communications between the Mac and the server,
> you should configure the Mac to communicate to the sever via SMB instead
> of AppleTalk.<<<
>
> In fact, the Mac says SMB when it connects. Could that be the problem?
> The Mac is using SMB and the Server is using AppleTalk. The server
> has AppleTalk as a protocol in the networking properties. Could it be
> a miss-match in the protocol?
>
> Where else can I look to help improve the performance?
>
> BTW: I called Apple and they said the same thing, that I should try to
> upgrade to OS 10.4 and leave 10.2.8 behind. If I do that, do I have to
> reinstall all the applications all over again like I would using
> Windows? Can a MAC NOVICE and Windows Guru like me do the upgrade or
> do you think I should sub-contract it out to a MAC Guru?
>
> Your thoughts and opinion is greatly appreciated and valued.
>
> Dale
>
> "Eriq Neale [SBS MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote in message news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Bikini Browser wrote:
>>> Hey Folks!
>>>
>>> Any MAC users out there?
>>>
>>> I have one Macintosh (OS = 10.2.8) on my Windows 2003 SBS Server with
>>> 25 Win XP's. I have a Windows 2000 Member server connected to the SBS
>>> 2003 Server. The Win2000 Server has Mac Services installed and a Share
>>> is setup for Mac and Windows clients. The share is called GenPop, for
>>> "General Population".
>>>
>>> The MAC has downloaded all it's software updates and they are set to
>>> auto download.
>>>
>>> All my Windows XP Clients copy files to the MAC / Win Share just fine.
>>> Lots of speed and there are no problems. However the Macintosh 10.2.8
>>> is extremely (and I really mean EXTREMELY) slow copying files to the
>>> Windows 200? Share. (I setup a MAC/Windows share on the Windows 2003
>>> server and I had all kinds of problems connecting to it.) So I went
>>> back to the Win2000 Server.
>>>
>>> And the MAC disconnects from the Windows 2000 server sometimes when
>>> copying files, especially large ones. I never see it because I don't
>>> use the MAC but the MAC user reports it to me.
>>>
>>> I don't know very much about MAC's but I do know it is TOO SLOW. It
>>> seems to have a 100mb NIC on it. I thought about trying to verify that
>>> it is connecting to the LAN Switch at 100mb, Full Duplex, but I don't
>>> know how to do that.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any other ideas on where to look to troubleshoot the problem?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>> Dale
>>
>> Dale -
>>
>> If you're using Services for Macintosh on the server, you're never
>> going to get "fast" file transfers between the Mac and the Mac share on
>> the server. Services for Macintosh emulates an AppleShare server on the
>> SBS box and uses the AppleTalk protocol to provide the communications.
>> AppleTalk has a LOT of overhead and is just nowhere nearly as efficient
>> as other communications protocols.
>>
>> If you want to get faster communications between the Mac and the
>> server, you should configure the Mac to communicate to the sever via
>> SMB instead of AppleTalk. I've got a blog post that gives step-by-step
>> instructions for configuring the Mac and the SBS server. You can find
>> it at
>> http://simultaneouspancakes.com/Less...erver-via-smb/.
>> Since you're running Mac OS 10.2.8, you'll have a little trouble if the
>> SBS box has an internal domain name ending in .local, but there are
>> workarounds (realistically, if you can upgrade the Mac to 10.4, that
>> would be best all around, but if you can't, it's not the end of the
>> world).
>>
>> hope that helps...
>>
>> -Eriq
>> --
>> Eriq Neale - SBS MVP, Small Business Specialist, MCSE, Mac Guru
>> EON Consulting - www.eonconsulting.net
>> Author of Microsoft Small Business Server 2003 Unleashed
>> Listen to the eOnCall Radio broadcast at AIRtunZ
>> (www.airtunz.com) or hear past episodes at www.eoncall.com


--
Eriq Neale - SBS MVP, Small Business Specialist, MCSE, Mac Guru
EON Consulting - www.eonconsulting.net
Author of Microsoft Small Business Server 2003 Unleashed
Listen to the eOnCall Radio broadcast at Apostle Internet Radio
(www.apostleradio.org) or hear past episodes at www.eoncall.com

Dale -

Since I'm still not 100% clear exactly how the Mac is conecting to the
server now, I can't say for sure if using FTP would necessarily provide
ay faster communications. Here are a few other questions for you:

1. What type of Mac is it?
2. What does the physical network look like? i.e., the Mac and the
server both connect to a switch (what make/model of switch), is there
wireless involved, what type of NIC in the server, what is the
connection to the internet, etc.
3. If you run an internet conection speed test (I use the ones at
www/broadbandreports.com/stest as a quick and dirty check) from the Mac
and from a Windows workstation on the same internal network, do you get
equivalent results?

As I said in my last post, it's time to remove Services for Mac from
the server (including the AppleTalk protocol on the NIC) and follow the
steps in
http://simultaneouspancakes.com/Less...erver-via-smb/
to make sure the Mac is configured correctly to use SMB to connect to
the existing Windows shares on the server.

HTH...

-Eriq

On 2007-01-28 17:47:03 -0600, "Bikini Browser"
<(E-Mail Removed)> said:

> Eriq:
>
> I have a few other questions:
>
> We have the abilty to setup our own FTP Site on our OWN local LAN.
> Could I use FTP to do my file transfers and possibly expect faster file
> transfers that what I have now using a Windows 2000 Share and the SMB
> Protocol? Remember that what I have now is EXTREMELY SLOW, taking
> SEVERAL HOURS to transfer 5 or 6 megabytes.
>
> Also, is there a software program I can install on the MAC 10.2.8 to
> allow me to remote control it as I do with remote desktop using
> Windows? I really want to work remotely on the MAC. I want to use a
> Windows PC to connect to the MAC and remote control it.
>
> Do you have any ideas?
>
> Dale
>
> "Eriq Neale [SBS MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote in message news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Bikini Browser wrote:
>>> Hey Folks!
>>>
>>> Any MAC users out there?
>>>
>>> I have one Macintosh (OS = 10.2.8) on my Windows 2003 SBS Server with
>>> 25 Win XP's. I have a Windows 2000 Member server connected to the SBS
>>> 2003 Server. The Win2000 Server has Mac Services installed and a Share
>>> is setup for Mac and Windows clients. The share is called GenPop, for
>>> "General Population".
>>>
>>> The MAC has downloaded all it's software updates and they are set to
>>> auto download.
>>>
>>> All my Windows XP Clients copy files to the MAC / Win Share just fine.
>>> Lots of speed and there are no problems. However the Macintosh 10.2.8
>>> is extremely (and I really mean EXTREMELY) slow copying files to the
>>> Windows 200? Share. (I setup a MAC/Windows share on the Windows 2003
>>> server and I had all kinds of problems connecting to it.) So I went
>>> back to the Win2000 Server.
>>>
>>> And the MAC disconnects from the Windows 2000 server sometimes when
>>> copying files, especially large ones. I never see it because I don't
>>> use the MAC but the MAC user reports it to me.
>>>
>>> I don't know very much about MAC's but I do know it is TOO SLOW. It
>>> seems to have a 100mb NIC on it. I thought about trying to verify that
>>> it is connecting to the LAN Switch at 100mb, Full Duplex, but I don't
>>> know how to do that.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any other ideas on where to look to troubleshoot the problem?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>> Dale
>>
>> Dale -
>>
>> If you're using Services for Macintosh on the server, you're never
>> going to get "fast" file transfers between the Mac and the Mac share on
>> the server. Services for Macintosh emulates an AppleShare server on the
>> SBS box and uses the AppleTalk protocol to provide the communications.
>> AppleTalk has a LOT of overhead and is just nowhere nearly as efficient
>> as other communications protocols.
>>
>> If you want to get faster communications between the Mac and the
>> server, you should configure the Mac to communicate to the sever via
>> SMB instead of AppleTalk. I've got a blog post that gives step-by-step
>> instructions for configuring the Mac and the SBS server. You can find
>> it at
>> http://simultaneouspancakes.com/Less...erver-via-smb/.
>> Since you're running Mac OS 10.2.8, you'll have a little trouble if the
>> SBS box has an internal domain name ending in .local, but there are
>> workarounds (realistically, if you can upgrade the Mac to 10.4, that
>> would be best all around, but if you can't, it's not the end of the
>> world).
>>
>> hope that helps...
>>
>> -Eriq
>> --
>> Eriq Neale - SBS MVP, Small Business Specialist, MCSE, Mac Guru
>> EON Consulting - www.eonconsulting.net
>> Author of Microsoft Small Business Server 2003 Unleashed
>> Listen to the eOnCall Radio broadcast at AIRtunZ
>> (www.airtunz.com) or hear past episodes at www.eoncall.com


--
Eriq Neale - SBS MVP, Small Business Specialist, MCSE, Mac Guru
EON Consulting - www.eonconsulting.net
Author of Microsoft Small Business Server 2003 Unleashed
Listen to the eOnCall Radio broadcast at Apostle Internet Radio
(www.apostleradio.org) or hear past episodes at www.eoncall.com