'Broadband router' + ADSL Modem - OK?

I have an existing home network that uses a Zyxel Prestige 334 router,
this was bought when we expected wireless broadband that required a
'broadband router' like this.

We are now about to get ADSL. Can I connect an ADSL modem to the
broadband router? Will this need any non-standard setup in the ADSL
modem - the router will be providing NAT etc.

I want to keep using the Zyxel router because it has a facility called
"Traffic Redirect" which redirects requests to an alternative
connection (an ISDN router) if the broadband connection fails.

--
Chris Green


usenet@isbd.co.uk

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, says...
> I have an existing home network that uses a Zyxel Prestige 334 router,
> this was bought when we expected wireless broadband that required a
> 'broadband router' like this.
>
> We are now about to get ADSL. Can I connect an ADSL modem to the
> broadband router? Will this need any non-standard setup in the ADSL
> modem - the router will be providing NAT etc.
>
> I want to keep using the Zyxel router because it has a facility called
> "Traffic Redirect" which redirects requests to an alternative
> connection (an ISDN router) if the broadband connection fails.
>
Should be fine. I suspect you know to get an ADSL modem with a 10/100
port.


--
Conor

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." O.Osbourne.

Conor <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, says...
> > I have an existing home network that uses a Zyxel Prestige 334 router,
> > this was bought when we expected wireless broadband that required a
> > 'broadband router' like this.
> >
> > We are now about to get ADSL. Can I connect an ADSL modem to the
> > broadband router? Will this need any non-standard setup in the ADSL
> > modem - the router will be providing NAT etc.
> >
> > I want to keep using the Zyxel router because it has a facility called
> > "Traffic Redirect" which redirects requests to an alternative
> > connection (an ISDN router) if the broadband connection fails.
> >
> Should be fine. I suspect you know to get an ADSL modem with a 10/100
> port.
>
Yes, however that turns out to be easier said than done, nearly
every ADSL 'modem' with an ethernet connection is also a router and I
suspect that is possibly a recipe for getting very confused.

Unless I can find a very cheap ADSL modem with ethernet I may as well
go for a new Zyxel ADSL router (which also has the Traffic Redirect
function) and simply replace my existing Zyxel router. I can find the
Zyxel 660H for less than £50.

--
Chris Green

On 22 Apr 2005 11:42:17 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>Yes, however that turns out to be easier said than done, nearly
>every ADSL 'modem' with an ethernet connection is also a router and I
>suspect that is possibly a recipe for getting very confused.

Why ? You surely connect the WAN port from your router to (one of) the
ethernet port(s) of the ADSL modem/router, so your router feeds into it
as if it was a single PC. Not sure quite how your existing router will
determine the connection is down (to switch to the ISDN) but assuming a
timer or some similar function, it should then direct traffic to ISDN
(but I hope it regularly checks for WAN being active again, to be able
to switch back within a 5 minute period of the ADSL being up again...
and some way for you to view the ADSL user interface is important too.

>Unless I can find a very cheap ADSL modem with ethernet

DSL-300T rings a bell (Linksys perhaps) but check u.t.b for others who
have wanted a plain ethernet -> ADSL modem without router ("Dave J" is
one who was looking to get this)... What problems were encountered, I
cannot remember, but it isn't all plain sailing with that modem... and
you could probably make an ADSL modem/router operate without routing,
using the DMZ setting for your particular router, anyway. Peter M.

On 22 Apr 2005 11:42:17 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>Yes, however that turns out to be easier said than done, nearly
>every ADSL 'modem' with an ethernet connection is also a router and I
>suspect that is possibly a recipe for getting very confused.

there are some ethernet modems which either act as one port routers or
as modems but the latter means the thing plugged into it (intended to
be a computer) gets the external IP address. This might work but you
need to RTFM for both devices.

The ADSLnation X-modem is one device where you can normally get advice
up front of buying it. Westell ProLine 6000 is another such device,
both are reviewed at http://www.adslguide.org.uk/reviews/ with some
screen shots and outline fo the features.

There is a Dlink as well but people with those are usually suicidal
within hours.

I have a Zoom X3 single port ADSL modem/router feeding into another
Belkin router's wan port and there's an ISDN router in the mix too.
Its all about allocating IP addresses correctly and having devices
that are comfortable being sat behind each other and not all wanting
to be boss and have external IPs allocated.

Phil
--
spamcop.net address commissioned 18/06/04
Come on down !

In message <(E-Mail Removed) t>, poster
<us-(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>On 22 Apr 2005 11:42:17 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>
>>Yes, however that turns out to be easier said than done, nearly
>>every ADSL 'modem' with an ethernet connection is also a router and I
>>suspect that is possibly a recipe for getting very confused.
>
>Why ? You surely connect the WAN port from your router to (one of) the
>ethernet port(s) of the ADSL modem/router, so your router feeds into it
>as if it was a single PC.

Trying to do the same thing here with the Actiontec ADSL modem/router
and my Linksys BEFSR41 'Etherfast Cable/DSL Router'. The only IP the
Linksys is able to see on its WAN port is 198.162.0.4 which I guess is
the IP provided by NAT on the Actiontec?

The Actiontec setup page informs me that "If you turn NAT off, you MUST
specify a static route for your local subnet. However, if you have
configured an Unnumbered IP address then you will not need to disable
NAT and/or enter any Static Route." ???

How do I proceed?

>... and
>you could probably make an ADSL modem/router operate without routing,
>using the DMZ setting for your particular router, anyway. Peter M.
>
ahhh, that's an idea

--
dave @ stejonda

increasingly wishing he'd stuck with his CompSci course a little bit longer

On 2 May 2005 07:35, "dave @ stejonda" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>poster <us-(E-Mail Removed)> writes

>>On 22 Apr 2005 11:42:17 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>>
>>>Yes, however that turns out to be easier said than done, nearly
>>>every ADSL 'modem' with an ethernet connection is also a router and I
>>>suspect that is possibly a recipe for getting very confused.
>>
>>Why ? You surely connect the WAN port from your router to (one of) the
>>ethernet port(s) of the ADSL modem/router, so your router feeds into it
>>as if it was a single PC.

>Trying to do the same thing here with the Actiontec ADSL modem/router
>and my Linksys BEFSR41 'Etherfast Cable/DSL Router'. The only IP the
>Linksys is able to see on its WAN port is 198.162.0.4 which I guess is
>the IP provided by NAT on the Actiontec?

DHCP perhaps :-)
Can you not set the IP address within the config of the Linksys ?
(just in case you wanted to, or plugging it into something else may give
a clash if that has already allocated the same IP to something else).


>The Actiontec setup page informs me that "If you turn NAT off, you MUST
>specify a static route for your local subnet. However, if you have
>configured an Unnumbered IP address then you will not need to disable
>NAT and/or enter any Static Route." ???
>
>How do I proceed?

I will be interested to read someone's explanation in English myself.
Must admit I am still waking up and that flew over my head :-)


>>you could probably make an ADSL modem/router operate without routing,
>>using the DMZ setting for your particular router, anyway. Peter M.
>>
>ahhh, that's an idea

Out of interest, why is it not possible to just plug into the Actiontec
from your LAN ? I guess you have moved from some cable service to ADSL
in which case there must be something you like about the Linksys (?)

In message <(E-Mail Removed) t>, poster
<us-(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>On 2 May 2005 07:35, "dave @ stejonda" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>poster <us-(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>>>On 22 Apr 2005 11:42:17 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>>>
>>>>Yes, however that turns out to be easier said than done, nearly
>>>>every ADSL 'modem' with an ethernet connection is also a router and I
>>>>suspect that is possibly a recipe for getting very confused.
>>>
>>>Why ? You surely connect the WAN port from your router to (one of) the
>>>ethernet port(s) of the ADSL modem/router, so your router feeds into it
>>>as if it was a single PC.
>
>>Trying to do the same thing here with the Actiontec ADSL modem/router
>>and my Linksys BEFSR41 'Etherfast Cable/DSL Router'. The only IP the
>>Linksys is able to see on its WAN port is 198.162.0.4 which I guess is
>>the IP provided by NAT on the Actiontec?
>
>DHCP perhaps :-)

errrrm, yes I think, but isn't NAT involved too? (translating the
external Net IP to that on the LAN?)

>Can you not set the IP address within the config of the Linksys ?

errrrm which IP address?

>(just in case you wanted to, or plugging it into something else may give
> a clash if that has already allocated the same IP to something else).

errrrm, I'm totally confused by this
>
>>The Actiontec setup page informs me that "If you turn NAT off, you MUST
>>specify a static route for your local subnet. However, if you have
>>configured an Unnumbered IP address then you will not need to disable
>>NAT and/or enter any Static Route." ???
>>
>>How do I proceed?
>
>I will be interested to read someone's explanation in English myself.
>Must admit I am still waking up and that flew over my head :-)

Oh no.
>
>>>you could probably make an ADSL modem/router operate without routing,
>>>using the DMZ setting for your particular router, anyway. Peter M.
>>>
>>ahhh, that's an idea
>
>Out of interest, why is it not possible to just plug into the Actiontec
>from your LAN ?

Plug what exactly into the Actiontec?

> I guess you have moved from some cable service to ADSL
>in which case there must be something you like about the Linksys (?)

The Actiontec has just one ethernet port. I'd like to use something to
provide a 100Mbps link between the local PCs and access to the ADSL bb
to each as well. The Linksys can connect the PCs locally - I was hoping
that it could also be linked to the Actiontec to provide the Net access
as well.

--
dave @ stejonda

confusion in life is proportional to age

On 2 May 2005 12:12, "dave @ stejonda" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>>>Trying to do the same thing here with the Actiontec ADSL modem/router
>>>and my Linksys BEFSR41 'Etherfast Cable/DSL Router'. The only IP the
>>>Linksys is able to see on its WAN port is 198.162.0.4 which I guess is
>>>the IP provided by NAT on the Actiontec?
>>
>>DHCP perhaps :-)

>errrrm, yes I think, but isn't NAT involved too? (translating the
>external Net IP to that on the LAN?)

The translation is done because of NAT, but the addresses on the LAN can be
set a number of ways. On my LAN, each PC has a fixed IP rather than using
DHCP to be allocated an address by a DHCP server (router for example).



>>Can you not set the IP address within the config of the Linksys ?
>
>errrrm which IP address?

The WAN port address. On my LAN, I use addresses such as 10.0.0.xx and
in your case, you'd have to make sure there was some difference between
the 'LAN' side and the 'WAN' side... so I'd perhaps set the 'LAN' port
IP for the Actiontec to be 10.0.1.yy and allow it to use DHCP to give
out IP addresses... then the Linksys WAN port would be allocated some
address in the form 10.0.1.xx (so it is different to the DHCP / LAN
ports, which in my case would be 10.0.0.xxx)

>>(just in case you wanted to, or plugging it into something else may give
>> a clash if that has already allocated the same IP to something else).
>
>errrrm, I'm totally confused by this

Sorry, just that if you set up DHCP on more than one device to allocate
addresses in the same range, then plugging one of the units into the other
could allow a device to have an IP address which is already being used.

For example, if both your Actiontec and Linksys were giving out addresses
in the range 10.0.0.50 - 10.0.0.60 then say I plugged a PC into Linksys
and it was allocated 10.0.0.50. Then I plug the Linksys into Actiontec
and the Linksys is allocated 10.0.0.50 Now, for some reason (say I want
to make a config change on the Actiontec, from the PC, and have some prob
reaching it via the Linksys) I plug the PC into the Actiontec, direct, I
now have two devices with the IP address 10.0.0.50 which will cause some
problems. Hence the need to have significantly different ranges for the
two DHCP servers, to avoid conflicts.


>>
>>>>you could probably make an ADSL modem/router operate without routing,
>>>>using the DMZ setting for your particular router, anyway. Peter M.
>>>>
>>>ahhh, that's an idea
>>
>>Out of interest, why is it not possible to just plug into the Actiontec
>>from your LAN ?
>
>Plug what exactly into the Actiontec?

plug PC(s) directly into the Actiontec

>> I guess you have moved from some cable service to ADSL
>>in which case there must be something you like about the Linksys (?)
>
>The Actiontec has just one ethernet port. I'd like to use something to
>provide a 100Mbps link between the local PCs and access to the ADSL bb
>to each as well. The Linksys can connect the PCs locally - I was hoping
>that it could also be linked to the Actiontec to provide the Net access
>as well.

Oh. Well you could use just a multi-port hub or switch, rather than the
router... or plug the Actiontec into one of the LAN ports of the Linksys
so it is like one of the PCs. I thought you were after something special
(such as isolating the PCs behind the router so they could access the net
but any other PCs connected to the Actiontec were unable to 'see' the PCs
'behind' the Linksys router.

I'd be happy to do you a swap for a 12 port hub... or 16, or 24 :-)


--
Try a commercial news service - from 50 MB/day (once-only fee of < $5 )
up to 1500 MB/day for 6 months $99.95, 600 GB over 6 months $149.75
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In message <(E-Mail Removed) t>, poster
<us-(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>On 2 May 2005 12:12, "dave @ stejonda" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
<big snip>
>if both your Actiontec and Linksys were giving out addresses
>in the range 10.0.0.50 - 10.0.0.60 then say I plugged a PC into Linksys
>and it was allocated 10.0.0.50. Then I plug the Linksys into Actiontec
>and the Linksys is allocated 10.0.0.50 Now, for some reason (say I want
>to make a config change on the Actiontec, from the PC, and have some prob
>reaching it via the Linksys) I plug the PC into the Actiontec, direct, I
>now have two devices with the IP address 10.0.0.50 which will cause some
>problems. Hence the need to have significantly different ranges for the
>two DHCP servers, to avoid conflicts.
>
Ok - unfortunately both the Linksys & Actiontec DHCP servers are limited
to providing IPs in the range 192.168.1.*. However, with the limited
quantity of PCs I'm ever likely to connect I can overcome this potential
problem by starting one range 100 above the other.
>
>>> I guess you have moved from some cable service to ADSL
>>>in which case there must be something you like about the Linksys (?)

Well it is a friendly blue colour. And I'd rather use a bit of kit
I have than buy another.
>
>Oh. Well you could use just a multi-port hub or switch, rather than the
>router... or plug the Actiontec into one of the LAN ports of the Linksys
>so it is like one of the PCs.

In fact, plugging the Actiontec into the WAN port of the Linksys did
work after all. I hadn't thought I needed to change the DNS entries in
the Linksys from NTL's DNS IPs to those provided by UKOnline. (doh!)

A friend keeps telling me that using a switch instead of a router would
be faster - fewer conflicts - is this true?

> I thought you were after something special
>(such as isolating the PCs behind the router so they could access the net
>but any other PCs connected to the Actiontec were unable to 'see' the PCs
>'behind' the Linksys router.

No, I just wanted everything internally to see everything else. I like a
simple life. Can anyone suggest a simple book on TCP/IP networking?

All I have to do now is work out how to get my 8000/512 connection to
stop connecting at 576/288. All this messing about seems to have upset
the Actiontec.

--
dave @ stejonda