Neighbour has insecured WiFi

One of my neighbours has recently added a Belkin wireless router to his
broadband setup, because I can now see such in my list of available
wireless networks.

My laptop has tried to connect to this, but never gets assigned an IP
address ....

I've no interest in 'hacking' my neighbour, in fact, I intend to tell
him his network is insecure when I next see him but ...

a) if it's insecure, how come I don't get an IP address assigned?

b) even if I could connect, there's no way i'd be able to see his
files/folders etc unless I was in the same workgroup, or assigned share
rights, is there?

c) in brief (as i've no interest in carrying out such) how could I gain
access to his PC even if his network allowed me on?

I ask, because my neighbour is an arrogant sort of guy who rarely
considers himself in the wrong, so I would like to have some answers to
back up my reason(s) for telling him he is running an insecure network.

TIA


RolYat

"RolYat" <newsaccount@-removethis-hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> One of my neighbours has recently added a Belkin wireless router to his
> broadband setup, because I can now see such in my list of available
> wireless networks.
>
> My laptop has tried to connect to this, but never gets assigned an IP
> address ....
>
> I've no interest in 'hacking' my neighbour, in fact, I intend to tell
> him his network is insecure when I next see him but ...
>
> a) if it's insecure, how come I don't get an IP address assigned?

Maybe he's turned off the DHCP server on the router and has assigned static
IPs to the PCs on his network. This is a crude way of increasing security
(very slightly) because you won't be able to use his network unless you know
which subnet the PCs are in so you can statically set your PC to an address
in the same subnet.

> b) even if I could connect, there's no way i'd be able to see his
> files/folders etc unless I was in the same workgroup, or assigned share
> rights, is there?

Yes, you don't need to be in the same workgroup to connect to another PC's
resources, either using the DOS "net use \\pc\share" command or the "Map
Drive" facility of Windows Explorer - providing you know the name of the PC.
However if you are not in the same workgroup the PC won't show up in "My
Network Places".

> c) in brief (as i've no interest in carrying out such) how could I gain
> access to his PC even if his network allowed me on?
>
> I ask, because my neighbour is an arrogant sort of guy who rarely
> considers himself in the wrong, so I would like to have some answers to
> back up my reason(s) for telling him he is running an insecure network.

Suggest that he:

- sets WPA (or at least 128-bit WEP) encryption
- disables broadcast of SSID (also stops the subnet range from being
broadcast)
- sets a non-trivial admin password (ie not "admin" or "password"!) on the
browser interface

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, RolYat says...
>
> One of my neighbours has recently added a Belkin wireless router to his
> broadband setup, because I can now see such in my list of available
> wireless networks.
>
> My laptop has tried to connect to this, but never gets assigned an IP
> address ....
>
> I've no interest in 'hacking' my neighbour, in fact, I intend to tell
> him his network is insecure when I next see him but ...
>
> a) if it's insecure, how come I don't get an IP address assigned?
>
> b) even if I could connect, there's no way i'd be able to see his
> files/folders etc unless I was in the same workgroup, or assigned share
> rights, is there?
>
> c) in brief (as i've no interest in carrying out such) how could I gain
> access to his PC even if his network allowed me on?
>
> I ask, because my neighbour is an arrogant sort of guy who rarely
> considers himself in the wrong, so I would like to have some answers to
> back up my reason(s) for telling him he is running an insecure network.
>
a) Because it IS secure and he's used MAC address filtering.
b) You can see anything on there that's not password protected.
c) DO NOT DO THIS. It is illegal under the Computer Misuse Act.

Sounds like you're as arrogant as he is...


--
Conor

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." O.Osbourne.

In article <425c379b$0$27832$(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed) ...

[...]

> Maybe he's turned off the DHCP server on the router and has assigned static
> IPs to the PCs on his network.

Maybe, but I think it's unlikely, knowing him as I do.

He'll have bought a Belkin because "it's the best one you can get" and
will work the thing straight out of the box as much as he can, allowing
XP to simply 'find' the gateway.

I think he's fiddling with it though because it keeps going on and off!

Thanks for the rest of your comments.

"RolYat" <newsaccount@-removethis-hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> One of my neighbours has recently added a Belkin wireless router to his
> broadband setup, because I can now see such in my list of available
> wireless networks.
>
> My laptop has tried to connect to this, but never gets assigned an IP
> address ....

He could have DHCP switched off. This control automatic issuing of IP
addresses.

>
> I've no interest in 'hacking' my neighbour, in fact, I intend to tell
> him his network is insecure when I next see him but ...
>
> a) if it's insecure, how come I don't get an IP address assigned?

DHCP OFF maybe?

>
> b) even if I could connect, there's no way i'd be able to see his
> files/folders etc unless I was in the same workgroup, or assigned share
> rights, is there?
>
> c) in brief (as i've no interest in carrying out such) how could I gain
> access to his PC even if his network allowed me on?
>
> I ask, because my neighbour is an arrogant sort of guy who rarely
> considers himself in the wrong, so I would like to have some answers to
> back up my reason(s) for telling him he is running an insecure network.


Well I wouldn't suggest he is wrong!
How 'open' or 'closed' he wants his network to be is his business.
He could be using further security inside the connection in order to allow
access to the network.

>
> TIA

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, terry99865@no-spam-
thanks.com ...

[...]

> How 'open' or 'closed' he wants his network to be is his business.
> He could be using further security inside the connection in order to allow
> access to the network.

I really ought to point out that he most definitely doesn't have this
kind of knowledge, and, if that is the occurrence, it will be completely
by accident!

Yes, it's his business how he conducts himself across the airways, but I
wanted to be the good Samaritan, and let him know, having a good case to
argue for securing his network when I get the answers I anticipate
getting.

I'm not being a 'network cop', just looking to do the guy a favour.

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, RolYat says...

> I really ought to point out that he most definitely doesn't have this
> kind of knowledge, and, if that is the occurrence, it will be completely
> by accident!
>
Neither do you.

> Yes, it's his business how he conducts himself across the airways, but I
> wanted to be the good Samaritan, and let him know, having a good case to
> argue for securing his network when I get the answers I anticipate
> getting.
>
And you have the nerve to call him arrogant? What you actually mean is
that you want yet another opportunity to point score and gloat at him.

Met people like you alot. Not found one I wouldn't shoot if it was
legal.


--
Conor

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." O.Osbourne.

<uk.comp.home-networking , RolYat , newsaccount@-removethis-
hotmail.co.uk>
<(E-Mail Removed)>
<Tue, 12 Apr 2005 22:50:51 +0100>

> > How 'open' or 'closed' he wants his network to be is his business.
> > He could be using further security inside the connection in order to allow
> > access to the network.
>
> I really ought to point out that he most definitely doesn't have this
> kind of knowledge, and, if that is the occurrence, it will be completely
> by accident!
>

Not always true for the type of user you describe .

Theres a fair chance he knew of the possible wifi security risks and
took the time to google it - mostly because he sounds like the type of
user who would object strongly to somebody whacking it his bum and would
be able to brag and laugh at others about being wifi secure .


--
www.glasgowpc.co.uk
(a list of glasgow and scottish computer shops)

RolYat wrote:
> One of my neighbours has recently added a Belkin wireless router to
> his broadband setup, because I can now see such in my list of
> available wireless networks.

Yes , so he hasn't turned off SSID broadcast which is a good thing.

> My laptop has tried to connect to this, but never gets assigned an IP
> address ....

So it *is* secure then/
>
> I've no interest in 'hacking' my neighbour, in fact, I intend to tell
> him his network is insecure when I next see him but ...
>
> a) if it's insecure, how come I don't get an IP address assigned?

it *is* secure if you can't connect

> b) even if I could connect, there's no way i'd be able to see his
> files/folders etc unless I was in the same workgroup, or assigned
> share rights, is there?

Unless you start "hacking" that or he hasn't set passwords.
>
> c) in brief (as i've no interest in carrying out such) how could I
> gain access to his PC even if his network allowed me on?

Why would I tell you?

> I ask, because my neighbour is an arrogant sort of guy who rarely
> considers himself in the wrong, so I would like to have some answers
> to back up my reason(s) for telling him he is running an insecure
> network.
>
What makes you think he is?

He could have it running WPA with a lengthy key , no DHCP server running ,
and connections restricted to specific MAC addresses.
Just because you can see the SSID it doesn't make it insecure. In fact he is
being courteous by leaving it viewable as it helps people avoid overlapping
channels.

Hiding the SSID wouldn't add much security as a wireless packet sniffer
could still find the SSID in a matter of seconds.

Sounds to me like you are an arrogant sort of a guy who rarely considers
himself to be in the wrong

--
Alex

Hermes: "We can't afford that! Especially not Zoidberg!"
Zoidberg: "They took away my credit cards!"

www.drzoidberg.co.uk
www.sffh.co.uk
www.ebayfaq.co.uk

RolYat wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, terry99865@no-spam-
> thanks.com ...
>
> [...]
>
>> How 'open' or 'closed' he wants his network to be is his business.
>> He could be using further security inside the connection in order to
>> allow access to the network.
>
> I really ought to point out that he most definitely doesn't have this
> kind of knowledge, and, if that is the occurrence, it will be
> completely by accident!

How do you know he set it up?
A friend of mine has a wireless router (belkin as it happens , nice and
cheap) which is as secure as it can be made but he hasn't got a clue about
setting it up , cause I did it for him

> Yes, it's his business how he conducts himself across the airways,
> but I wanted to be the good Samaritan, and let him know, having a
> good case to argue for securing his network when I get the answers I
> anticipate getting.
>
> I'm not being a 'network cop', just looking to do the guy a favour.

No you aren't , you wanted to wander round and score points by telling him
he was in the wrong.
--
Alex

Hermes: "We can't afford that! Especially not Zoidberg!"
Zoidberg: "They took away my credit cards!"

www.drzoidberg.co.uk
www.sffh.co.uk
www.ebayfaq.co.uk