Bytes and bits

Hi all, could soneone clarify this please Talk Talk are offering 8 megabits
broadband, Google shows 8 Megabits = 1 Megabytes. I though is was measured
in bytes, not bits? Is this correct if comparing to BT's 8Mbps Broadband?

Thanks All
Jon




John

John wrote:
> Hi all, could soneone clarify this please Talk Talk are offering 8 megabits
> broadband, Google shows 8 Megabits = 1 Megabytes. I though is was measured
> in bytes, not bits? Is this correct if comparing to BT's 8Mbps Broadband?

Network connections are measured in bits/second rather than
bytes/second. 8Mbps = 8 megabits/second, not 8 megabytes/second.

Alex.

in broadband terms its megabits,,, so 8Mbps is really 1Mb..(i.e. 8 bits to a
byte)..


"John" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:4457aa71$0$32337$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi all, could soneone clarify this please Talk Talk are offering 8
> megabits broadband, Google shows 8 Megabits = 1 Megabytes. I though is was
> measured in bytes, not bits? Is this correct if comparing to BT's 8Mbps
> Broadband?
>
> Thanks All
> Jon
>

On Tue, 2 May 2006 19:27:57 UTC, "Stu C"
<(E-Mail Removed)> top posted:

> "John" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:4457aa71$0$32337$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Hi all, could soneone clarify this please Talk Talk are offering 8
> > megabits broadband, Google shows 8 Megabits = 1 Megabytes. I though is was
> > measured in bytes, not bits? Is this correct if comparing to BT's 8Mbps
> > Broadband?

> in broadband terms its megabits,,, so 8Mbps is really 1Mb..(i.e. 8 bits to a
> byte)..

One of the things that helps to sow confusion is the incorrect
abbreviations (as shown here). It should read:

"in broadband terms it's megabits....so 8 Mb/s is really 1MB/s..(i.e. 8
bits to a byte).."

Note the B to abbreviate 'byte', and the b to abbreviate 'bit'...

--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]

"Bob Eager" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:176uZD2KcidF-pn2-(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 2 May 2006 19:27:57 UTC, "Stu C"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> top posted:
>
>> "John" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:4457aa71$0$32337$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> > Hi all, could soneone clarify this please Talk Talk are offering 8
>> > megabits broadband, Google shows 8 Megabits = 1 Megabytes. I though is
>> > was
>> > measured in bytes, not bits? Is this correct if comparing to BT's 8Mbps
>> > Broadband?
>
>> in broadband terms its megabits,,, so 8Mbps is really 1Mb..(i.e. 8 bits
>> to a
>> byte)..
>
> One of the things that helps to sow confusion is the incorrect
> abbreviations (as shown here). It should read:
>
> "in broadband terms it's megabits....so 8 Mb/s is really 1MB/s..(i.e. 8
> bits to a byte).."
>
> Note the B to abbreviate 'byte', and the b to abbreviate 'bit'...
>
> --
> [ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
> to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
> Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
> euthanasia recommended. ]

but the /s is misleading as the time frame is always assumed to be one
second unless specified otherwise.

Sucuba Dude wrote:

>
> "Bob Eager" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
....
>> One of the things that helps to sow confusion is the incorrect
>> abbreviations (as shown here). It should read:
>>
>> "in broadband terms it's megabits....so 8 Mb/s is really 1MB/s..(i.e. 8
>> bits to a byte).."
>>
>> Note the B to abbreviate 'byte', and the b to abbreviate 'bit'...
>>
>> --
>> [ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
>> to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
>> Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
>> euthanasia recommended. ]
>
> but the /s is misleading as the time frame is always assumed to be one
> second unless specified otherwise.

There's nothing misleading about it, it's the correct way of showing it.

--
Chris

On Tue, 2 May 2006 20:26:53 UTC, Chris <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

> Sucuba Dude wrote:
> >
> > "Bob Eager" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> ...
> >> One of the things that helps to sow confusion is the incorrect
> >> abbreviations (as shown here). It should read:
> >>
> >> "in broadband terms it's megabits....so 8 Mb/s is really 1MB/s..(i.e. 8
> >> bits to a byte).."
> >>
> >> Note the B to abbreviate 'byte', and the b to abbreviate 'bit'...
> >
> > but the /s is misleading as the time frame is always assumed to be one
> > second unless specified otherwise.
>
> There's nothing misleading about it, it's the correct way of showing it.

He only said it because it was me, I expect. Not that I saw it till you
replied! (he's been killfiled for a while now). In his limited telecoms
world it might be true, I suppose.

--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]

Bob Eager wrote:
> On Tue, 2 May 2006 20:26:53 UTC, Chris <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>> Sucuba Dude wrote:
>>> "Bob Eager" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> ...
>>>> One of the things that helps to sow confusion is the incorrect
>>>> abbreviations (as shown here). It should read:
>>>>
>>>> "in broadband terms it's megabits....so 8 Mb/s is really 1MB/s..(i.e. 8
>>>> bits to a byte).."
>>>>
>>>> Note the B to abbreviate 'byte', and the b to abbreviate 'bit'...
>>> but the /s is misleading as the time frame is always assumed to be one
>>> second unless specified otherwise.
>> There's nothing misleading about it, it's the correct way of showing it.
>
> He only said it because it was me, I expect. Not that I saw it till you
> replied! (he's been killfiled for a while now). In his limited telecoms
> world it might be true, I suppose.
>

If you want to be a real stickler for detail, it would be exactly 8128
Kb s^-1 - the /s notation is falling out of favour, you see...

And of course, we should be using scientific notation, so it'd be...
what... 8.128x10^-3 Kb s-1

Not quite as snazzy though, is it?

Getting onto the OP's question... a 'bit' is a binary number: that is,
it can have a state of 0 or 1 (ie. it's "base two". A nibble is four
bits, and it can hold any number from 0000 to 1111 (15, in decimal (base
10) notation, or "f" in hexadecimal (base sixteen - 0 to 9, followed by
a to f because we ran out of numerals) notation).

A byte is two nibbles (or eight bits), and can hold any number from 0 to
255.

Human nature is to want to talk about "things". A character on your
screen is a distinct entity, and it takes up one byte. So data storage
is spoken about in terms of the number of bytes (discrete entities) you
can store.

Networks transmit things one bit at a time (well, sort of) - so on the
wire, a discrete entity - say, a change in voltage from +0 to +12ve (in
a serial cable, for instance) is one discrete entity - and it's a bit.
So we talk about bits on the network.


That's the way I had it explained to me, anyway. Maybe it's a bit
philosophical, but I like it .

As for bits, nibbles and bytes... who ever said computer engineers never
had a sense of humor...?

xF,

....Nick

On Tue, 2 May 2006 21:13:30 UTC, Nicholas Thomas
<ku.gro.snagap-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> If you want to be a real stickler for detail, it would be exactly 8128
> Kb s^-1 - the /s notation is falling out of favour, you see...

I tend to avoid that, because the ^ is a programming-language-dependent
notation. In FORTRAN, it would be **, for example!

> And of course, we should be using scientific notation, so it'd be...
> what... 8.128x10^-3 Kb s-1
>
> Not quite as snazzy though, is it?

Nope!

> Getting onto the OP's question... a 'bit' is a binary number: that is,
> it can have a state of 0 or 1 (ie. it's "base two". A nibble is four
> bits, and it can hold any number from 0000 to 1111 (15, in decimal (base
> 10) notation, or "f" in hexadecimal (base sixteen - 0 to 9, followed by
> a to f because we ran out of numerals) notation).
>
> A byte is two nibbles (or eight bits), and can hold any number from 0 to
> 255.
>
> Human nature is to want to talk about "things". A character on your
> screen is a distinct entity, and it takes up one byte. So data storage
> is spoken about in terms of the number of bytes (discrete entities) you
> can store.
>
> Networks transmit things one bit at a time (well, sort of) - so on the
> wire, a discrete entity - say, a change in voltage from +0 to +12ve (in
> a serial cable, for instance) is one discrete entity - and it's a bit.
> So we talk about bits on the network.

And of course we're ignoring the fact that:

a) the protocol overhead is going to drop that rate down to a lower true
data rate.
b) The line may not sustain 8Mb/s.

--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]

Nicholas Thomas <ku.gro.snagap-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

sn1

> Networks transmit things one bit at a time (well, sort of) - so on the
> wire, a discrete entity - say, a change in voltage from +0 to +12ve (in
> a serial cable, for instance) is one discrete entity - and it's a bit.
> So we talk about bits on the network.
>
>
> That's the way I had it explained to me, anyway. Maybe it's a bit
> philosophical, but I like it .
>
> As for bits, nibbles and bytes... who ever said computer engineers never
> had a sense of humor...?

I recently had a discussion about this elsewhere, and found this:

http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html

There is no such thing as a kb, it's a kbit, as SI units only refer to
powers of 10, and not binary.

--
Andy Hewitt ** FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
<http://andyhewitt.webhop.net/> (Part time web site)
<http://www.thehewitts.eclipse.co.uk> (Full time web site)