WiFi connection dropping

Wonder if anyone can advise - Belkin 802.11g USB dongle and BT Voyager
2100 wireless / wired router.

Both are in direct line of sight of each other, possibly 16 feet
apart, yet the PC drops connection regularly and can be troublesome
getting a reconnection.

I'm not a fan of Belkins' own software having seen it (the original
dongle had incorrect drivers for an older version of the hardware),
but afaik nothing else works with it - the windows wifi util just says
its unable to search with that hardware.

The router itself worked fine on my machine in tests without dropping,
but I wasn't leaving it for more than a few hours, and at a distance
of only several feet. My PC was the "dummy run" for the drivers etc,
so the target machine has only had the newest correct ones installed.
It did do some fairly extensive traffic testing via copious games of
Half Life online without major issue (other than a little extra lag)

The channel is still set up as 11 (default), and no other networks are
visible, the end-user doesn't have a DECT phone or any odd signals in
the immediate path, if you exclude a TV about 5 foot out of the direct
line of sight.

Wifi access is secured by MAC ID (only one PC will be using it) and
WPA-PSK is configured.

Would it be worth removing the MAC ID or WPA to see if this alleviates
the problem ? (I guess it would be an either-or situation, remove one
or the other only, to try to maintain the security of the network)

Suggestions welcome :-}

(afaik there's no lease time set up on the DHCP, and power-cycling the
PC several times can sometimes brings the connection up by itself i'm
told)

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Colin Wilson

"Colin Wilson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) t...
> Wonder if anyone can advise - Belkin 802.11g USB dongle and BT Voyager
> 2100 wireless / wired router.
>
> Both are in direct line of sight of each other, possibly 16 feet
> apart, yet the PC drops connection regularly and can be troublesome
> getting a reconnection.
>
> I'm not a fan of Belkins' own software having seen it (the original
> dongle had incorrect drivers for an older version of the hardware),
> but afaik nothing else works with it - the windows wifi util just says
> its unable to search with that hardware.
>
> The router itself worked fine on my machine in tests without dropping,
> but I wasn't leaving it for more than a few hours, and at a distance
> of only several feet. My PC was the "dummy run" for the drivers etc,
> so the target machine has only had the newest correct ones installed.
> It did do some fairly extensive traffic testing via copious games of
> Half Life online without major issue (other than a little extra lag)
>
> The channel is still set up as 11 (default), and no other networks are
> visible, the end-user doesn't have a DECT phone or any odd signals in
> the immediate path, if you exclude a TV about 5 foot out of the direct
> line of sight.

Hi Colin,

I was having terrible trouble due to a wireless digital TV sender. My PDA
would pick up the wireless router fine, as would my son's laptop, but my
laptop would drop connections every few seconds. With the wireless sender
switched off it is much better (plus I can now pick up a neighbours
unsecured network! - Do AOL give these people any tips on wireless security?
I have logged in to the router [how I know it is AOL] and looked at the
contents of the hard drive without problem. I am considering sending a
printout to the shared printer giving tips on wireless security!)

> Wifi access is secured by MAC ID (only one PC will be using it) and
> WPA-PSK is configured.
>
> Would it be worth removing the MAC ID or WPA to see if this alleviates
> the problem ? (I guess it would be an either-or situation, remove one
> or the other only, to try to maintain the security of the network)

Would it not be possible to unplug your phone line, remove all security from
the router but set up a random fixed IP address on the router (ie switch off
DHCP) Then make sure your software firewall (eg Norton) is set to only trust
that IP? Also switching off the ssid and changing thhe ssid afterwards. It
should be secure for a little while whilst you perform tests (Not perfect,
but it could do the job)

On another note, I have a USB dongle (not Belkin) and the range is crap. It
also suffers from unexplained drop-outs to the point where I don't use it
anymore.

> Suggestions welcome :-}

Just my tuppence

-halli-

"-halli-" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
.. With the wireless sender
> switched off it is much better (plus I can now pick up a neighbours
> unsecured network! - Do AOL give these people any tips on wireless
> security?

My computer-knowledgeless friends have just got a wireless setup and they're
chuffed to bits with it - but they don't know anything about setting up
security , they didn't even know that they should HAVE any security! I'm not
too savvy about it, except for what I've read,(But then I haven't got
wireless) so what's the worst thing that could happen to them, and how do
they put things right? I can then pass on the info to them.

TIA

Shiela S

> My computer-knowledgeless friends have just got a wireless setup and they're
> chuffed to bits with it - but they don't know anything about setting up
> security , they didn't even know that they should HAVE any security! I'm not
> too savvy about it, except for what I've read,(But then I haven't got
> wireless) so what's the worst thing that could happen to them, and how do
> they put things right? I can then pass on the info to them.

If they have no security on it there`s a chance their computer can be
used by someone else as though they were networked directly to it.
Shared resources, reading any information on the computer at all etc.

An unknown third party could install a key logger or monitor the
network traffic, so using an online bank risks the possibility of
giving away the login details - their account could be emptied.

The worst case scenario could be someone downloading kiddie porn using
their network, and when the police come knocking, trying to explain it
was nothing to do with them. Several news reports have said this is a
favourite way of avoiding detection, and if they do it themselves from
home, an open network gives them a form of defence by disavowing all
knowledge of what happened, as they "didn`t realise a wireless network
could be used by someone else".

--
Please add the word "newsgroup" in the subject line of personal emails
**** My email address includes "ngspamtrap" and "@btinternet.com" ****

> I was having terrible trouble due to a wireless digital TV sender. My PDA
> would pick up the wireless router fine, as would my son's laptop, but my
> laptop would drop connections every few seconds. With the wireless sender
> switched off it is much better (plus I can now pick up a neighbours
> unsecured network! - Do AOL give these people any tips on wireless security?

There are no known RF signals in the vicinity, but its a terraced
house, so I suppose there`s a chance the neighbours might have
something...

> I have logged in to the router [how I know it is AOL] and looked at the
> contents of the hard drive without problem. I am considering sending a
> printout to the shared printer giving tips on wireless security!)

<ouch>

The annoying thing is, if you happened to leave a warning you could
probably be done for it :-( (comp misuse act / unauthorised access) -
but by leaving it as-is, they`re at even greater risk.

> Would it not be possible to unplug your phone line, remove all security from
> the router but set up a random fixed IP address on the router (ie switch off
> DHCP) Then make sure your software firewall (eg Norton) is set to only trust
> that IP? Also switching off the ssid and changing thhe ssid afterwards. It
> should be secure for a little while whilst you perform tests

I suppose i`ll just have to have a play around with it and see how I
get on - if I had my way it`d be hard-wired anyway, but the layout of
the house doesn`t lend itself to it (and no easy under-floor access to
wire sockets either)

--
Please add the word "newsgroup" in the subject line of personal emails
**** My email address includes "ngspamtrap" and "@btinternet.com" ****

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 21:46:35 -0000, Colin Wilson wrote:

> Wonder if anyone can advise - Belkin 802.11g USB dongle and BT Voyager
> 2100 wireless / wired router.
>
> Both are in direct line of sight of each other, possibly 16 feet
> apart, yet the PC drops connection regularly and can be troublesome
> getting a reconnection.
>
> I'm not a fan of Belkins' own software having seen it (the original
> dongle had incorrect drivers for an older version of the hardware),
> but afaik nothing else works with it - the windows wifi util just says
> its unable to search with that hardware.
>
> The router itself worked fine on my machine in tests without dropping,
> but I wasn't leaving it for more than a few hours, and at a distance
> of only several feet. My PC was the "dummy run" for the drivers etc,
> so the target machine has only had the newest correct ones installed.
> It did do some fairly extensive traffic testing via copious games of
> Half Life online without major issue (other than a little extra lag)
>
> The channel is still set up as 11 (default), and no other networks are
> visible, the end-user doesn't have a DECT phone or any odd signals in
> the immediate path, if you exclude a TV about 5 foot out of the direct
> line of sight.
>
> Wifi access is secured by MAC ID (only one PC will be using it) and
> WPA-PSK is configured.
>
> Would it be worth removing the MAC ID or WPA to see if this alleviates
> the problem ? (I guess it would be an either-or situation, remove one
> or the other only, to try to maintain the security of the network)
>
> Suggestions welcome :-}
>
> (afaik there's no lease time set up on the DHCP, and power-cycling the
> PC several times can sometimes brings the connection up by itself i'm
> told)

First thing is to change the wifi channel to ch 1 - If you have a video sender
put this on ch A - this will put them both at either ends of the 2.4Ghz band.

Just because windows/"Insert your software here" wifi management doesn't see
another network doesn't mean there isn't one there with a hidden SSID.

Change the channel if you are having drop outs. It's nearly always RF
interference.

Regards,

Doz

Colin Wilson wrote:
> Wonder if anyone can advise - Belkin 802.11g USB dongle and BT Voyager
> 2100 wireless / wired router.
>
> Both are in direct line of sight of each other

In radio terms, 'Line of sight' works differently. Optical line of sight and
radio line of sight are two completely different terms.

Without getting into deep and mathematically complex conversations on the
subject of Freznel zones, merely having optical line of sight is not sufficient
for radio. Imagine something about the shape of an american football with the
two pointy bits being the two antennae. If that area is free of radio
obstructions (and a pencil is an obstruction) then you have clear radio line of
sight.

Have you tried polarising the signal differently? Most of the stubby antennae
on wireless kit can be pointed in virtually any direction. Try 90 degrees off
from where it is at the moment.

A stick antenna radiates in all directions around it (One pointing straight up
radiates in all directions around, but not up/down)

As radio systems go, the vast majority of cards out there suffer from 'Card
Radio Antenna Problem' (or C.R.A.P for short); laptops that use internal
antennae built into the screen frame tend to do better.
You may find that a seperate high gain antenna mounted on the ceiling will help
with even the C.R.A.P'est of cards.


> I'm not a fan of Belkins' own software

I find most belkin stuff overpriced and underfeatured.

> The channel is still set up as 11 (default), and no other networks are
> visible, the end-user doesn't have a DECT phone or any odd signals in
> the immediate path, if you exclude a TV about 5 foot out of the direct
> line of sight.

Try channel 1, it is far enough away from most manufacturer defaults to
hopefully not be interfered with by something.

Find a wireless-aware linux box and try something like
iwscan wlan0 list
and see if it shows up any networks nearby with hidden SSID's. (Someone will
hopefully suggest a windows tool for finding hidden AP's this way)

Bear in mind that channels overlap the channels two either side of them,
therefore a device on channel 1 overlaps 2 and 3, and a device on channel 5
overlaps channels 3,4,6 and 8. While this is not generally a problem, for
maximum separation you want to be five stops away from the next guy.

Hope this helps,
Jim

--
Under the most carefully controlled laboratory conditions, the subject
will do as it damn well pleases.

> Have you tried polarising the signal differently? Most of the stubby antennae
> on wireless kit can be pointed in virtually any direction. Try 90 degrees off
> from where it is at the moment.

Haven`t tried this yet, but will do - its pointing at the ceiling at
present. Any ideas what the best angle of dangle is for it - i.e.


.'puter ("."s are the aerials)






..__
| |
|__|

- would both aerials be best suited horizontal or vertical ? (the USB
dongle is vertical in a desk "pod")

> > I'm not a fan of Belkins' own software
> I find most belkin stuff overpriced and underfeatured.

It was £20 - about the going rate - and available when I needed it,
which may or may not have been a good indicator of reliability :-}

> Try channel 1, it is far enough away from most manufacturer defaults to
> hopefully not be interfered with by something.

Will do :-)

> Find a wireless-aware linux box and try something like
> iwscan wlan0 list
> and see if it shows up any networks nearby with hidden SSID's. (Someone will
> hopefully suggest a windows tool for finding hidden AP's this way)

/me wonders if Knoppix is wireless aware, and whether it needs strange
drivers for Belkin kit...

> Bear in mind that channels overlap the channels two either side of them,

Didn`t know that, thanks for the tips :-)

--
Please add the word "newsgroup" in the subject line of personal emails
**** My email address includes "ngspamtrap" and "@btinternet.com" ****

"Colin Wilson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) t...
> > My computer-knowledgeless friends have just got a wireless setup and
they're
> > chuffed to bits with it - but they don't know anything about setting up
> > security , they didn't even know that they should HAVE any security! I'm
not
> > too savvy about it, except for what I've read,(But then I haven't got
> > wireless) so what's the worst thing that could happen to them, and how
do
> > they put things right? I can then pass on the info to them.
>
> If they have no security on it there`s a chance their computer can be
> used by someone else as though they were networked directly to it.
> Shared resources, reading any information on the computer at all etc.
>
> An unknown third party could install a key logger or monitor the
> network traffic, so using an online bank risks the possibility of
> giving away the login details - their account could be emptied.
>
> The worst case scenario could be someone downloading kiddie porn using
> their network, and when the police come knocking, trying to explain it
> was nothing to do with them. Several news reports have said this is a
> favourite way of avoiding detection, and if they do it themselves from
> home, an open network gives them a form of defence by disavowing all
> knowledge of what happened, as they "didn`t realise a wireless network
> could be used by someone else".

All that as above, plus their neighbours could be using up their monthly
bandwidth allowance (if they have one)

-halli-

"Colin Wilson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) t...
> > I was having terrible trouble due to a wireless digital TV sender. My
PDA
> > would pick up the wireless router fine, as would my son's laptop, but my
> > laptop would drop connections every few seconds. With the wireless
sender
> > switched off it is much better (plus I can now pick up a neighbours
> > unsecured network! - Do AOL give these people any tips on wireless
security?
>
> There are no known RF signals in the vicinity, but its a terraced
> house, so I suppose there`s a chance the neighbours might have
> something...

I am going to try the channel 1 suggestion in the other post too. I picked
up a neighbour's wireless TV signal on my wireless TV receiver last night.

> > I have logged in to the router [how I know it is AOL] and looked at the
> > contents of the hard drive without problem. I am considering sending a
> > printout to the shared printer giving tips on wireless security!)
>
> <ouch>
>
> The annoying thing is, if you happened to leave a warning you could
> probably be done for it :-( (comp misuse act / unauthorised access) -
> but by leaving it as-is, they`re at even greater risk.

Bloody great isn't it! If I knew who it was I could probably give them a
knock and politely let them know, I suppose I could walk the street with my
PDA and see when the signal gets stronger. However, I would probably be
reported, punched or similar!

> > Would it not be possible to unplug your phone line, remove all security
from
> > the router but set up a random fixed IP address on the router (ie switch
off
> > DHCP) Then make sure your software firewall (eg Norton) is set to only
trust
> > that IP? Also switching off the ssid and changing thhe ssid afterwards.
It
> > should be secure for a little while whilst you perform tests
>
> I suppose i`ll just have to have a play around with it and see how I
> get on - if I had my way it`d be hard-wired anyway, but the layout of
> the house doesn`t lend itself to it (and no easy under-floor access to
> wire sockets either)

I love my wireless network, I still can't wait until some boffin invents
battery-less wireless mains electricity! It's a pain having wireless
t'internet and then needing to plug in the power for the laptop. However,
you would need some mighty wireless security for that!

-halli-