Syncing issues with Netgear routers advice and help much appreciated

What's going on here?

Identical (almost) routers DG834, one wired, one wireless (DG834G).

I'd personally tested both on a contact's line and neither sync'd. When I brought
them back to my line, both sync'd without problem.

Neither would sync on the line at my contact's house line. BT guy came in with his
Voyager 105 USB modem on his laptop and said he's managed to sync. (I wasn't there
when the BT guy came, the appointment was supposed to have been in the afternoon, but
he actually arrived at 8.30 am) so this was all reported to me.

Anyway he said he'd go fiddle with lines and report back, but we never heard
anything.

Next we reported back to the ISP (who were and are brilliant) and they sent the issue
back to BT.

BT guy came again and said the resistance on the line is too high and went to
investigate. He reported back that he'd found a better pair, but the line has only
just been "freed up" and the "office" said he couldn't use that line. (I quote from
the contact, and also the ISP).

Okay - it all goes back to the ISP to be yet again referred to BT.

Meanwhile I decide to flash my spare Netgear DG834 that I'd previously tried on the
line with the latest firmware, and go to my contacts place with that, and a Voyager
190 router (Ok it was intended for AOL but I flashed it to make it work with any ISP)
to test again before the BT guy came out again. Before I go I try both routers on my
line and both sync and hold connection with no problems.

At my contact's place there is still no sync with her router (Netgear DG834g) (I'd
also tested that on my line and it sync'd). I plugged my DG834 (flashed with the
latest firmware) in and suddenly it sync'd. Brilliant I thought - so I flashed her
DG834g (same router but with the wireless bit) with the same firmware - and it didn't
sync.

We've now got the odd situation where one identical router will sync, and another
won't, yet we can prove that both work.

I've no idea now where the problem lies - I've left her with my DG834 (my spare
router) and swapped it with her DG834g both flashed with the same firmware.


Anyone able to throw any light on this anomaly?



Any comments much appreciated


--

Andrew Sayers

> We've now got the odd situation where one identical router will sync, and
> another
> won't, yet we can prove that both work.
>

This sounds like borderline line stats to me. When you get the router to
sync can you read off the line stats and post them here? I suspect you have
a low signal-to-noise ratio (SNR or noise-margin) and that is the problem.
How fast does the BT line checker think the line can go?

I assume you've done all the obvious stuff like connecting the router to the
test socket behind the master socket?

> I've no idea now where the problem lies - I've left her with my DG834 (my
> spare
> router) and swapped it with her DG834g both flashed with the same
> firmware.
>
>
> Anyone able to throw any light on this anomaly?
>
>
>
> Any comments much appreciated
>
>
> --
>
> Andrew Sayers

"Andrew Sayers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> What's going on here?
>
> Identical (almost) routers DG834, one wired, one wireless (DG834G).
>
> I'd personally tested both on a contact's line and neither sync'd. When I
> brought
> them back to my line, both sync'd without problem.
>
> Neither would sync on the line at my contact's house line. BT guy came in
> with his
> Voyager 105 USB modem on his laptop and said he's managed to sync. (I
> wasn't there
> when the BT guy came, the appointment was supposed to have been in the
> afternoon, but
> he actually arrived at 8.30 am) so this was all reported to me.


This issue of the BT technician arriving on site at the wrong time or on the
wrong day has also given me problems. Has anybody any ideas of how to
resolve it?

-- Graham J

"WCZ" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>> We've now got the odd situation where one identical router will sync, and
>> another
>> won't, yet we can prove that both work.
>>
>
>This sounds like borderline line stats to me. When you get the router to
>sync can you read off the line stats and post them here? I suspect you have
>a low signal-to-noise ratio (SNR or noise-margin) and that is the problem.
>How fast does the BT line checker think the line can go?
>
>I assume you've done all the obvious stuff like connecting the router to the
>test socket behind the master socket?
>
Yes, the router's plugged into the master socket, using the super filter face plate
fitted by the BT engineer.
(Same issues when it was plugged directly into the test socket with different
filters).

I'll check the line stats and report back


--

Andrew Sayers

"WCZ" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>> We've now got the odd situation where one identical router will sync, and
>> another
>> won't, yet we can prove that both work.
>>
>
>This sounds like borderline line stats to me. When you get the router to
>sync can you read off the line stats and post them here? I suspect you have
>a low signal-to-noise ratio (SNR or noise-margin) and that is the problem.
>How fast does the BT line checker think the line can go?
>
>I assume you've done all the obvious stuff like connecting the router to the
>test socket behind the master socket?
>
As promised I've got the line stats off the router:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 2368 kbps 256 kbps
Line Attenuation 63 db 15.5 db
Noise Margin 7 db 7 db

(I hope the layout is preserved)

Noise margin looks low, but atm the connection is holding steady.



--

Andrew Sayers

Andrew Sayers wrote:
> "WCZ" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>
>>> We've now got the odd situation where one identical router will
>>> sync, and another
>>> won't, yet we can prove that both work.
>>>
>>
>> This sounds like borderline line stats to me. When you get the
>> router to sync can you read off the line stats and post them here?
>> I suspect you have a low signal-to-noise ratio (SNR or
>> noise-margin) and that is the problem. How fast does the BT line
>> checker think the line can go?
>>
>> I assume you've done all the obvious stuff like connecting the
>> router to the test socket behind the master socket?
>>
> As promised I've got the line stats off the router:
>
> ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
> Connection Speed 2368 kbps 256 kbps
> Line Attenuation 63 db 15.5 db
> Noise Margin 7 db 7 db
>
> (I hope the layout is preserved)
>
> Noise margin looks low, but atm the connection is holding steady.

There's your problem. Your friend is on a fixed 2 Mbps circuit & line
specs are 18dB over limit (loop loss).

They have 2 options, either move to MAX DSL where they may get the
same speed but are likely to get 1.5Mbps or they change to a 1Mbps
fixed rate connection.

I have just thought of a third & that is for you see if you can tweak
their internal wiring to see if you can get the loop loss reading any
better...

"Andrew Sayers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "WCZ" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>
>>> We've now got the odd situation where one identical router will sync,
>>> and
>>> another
>>> won't, yet we can prove that both work.
>>>
>>
>>This sounds like borderline line stats to me. When you get the router to
>>sync can you read off the line stats and post them here? I suspect you
>>have
>>a low signal-to-noise ratio (SNR or noise-margin) and that is the problem.
>>How fast does the BT line checker think the line can go?
>>
>>I assume you've done all the obvious stuff like connecting the router to
>>the
>>test socket behind the master socket?
>>
> As promised I've got the line stats off the router:
>
> ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
> Connection Speed 2368 kbps 256 kbps
> Line Attenuation 63 db 15.5 db
> Noise Margin 7 db 7 db
>
> (I hope the layout is preserved)
>
> Noise margin looks low, but atm the connection is holding steady.
>

I ahve a similar spec to yours, using a sky netgear dg834g, i get 2800 down
and about 768 up, it is largely reliable, i get the odd outage, in a year,
maybe about 10 hours in total.

Gaz

In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Andrew Sayers
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>"WCZ" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>
>>> We've now got the odd situation where one identical router will sync, and
>>> another
>>> won't, yet we can prove that both work.
>>>
>>
>>This sounds like borderline line stats to me. When you get the router to
>>sync can you read off the line stats and post them here? I suspect you have
>>a low signal-to-noise ratio (SNR or noise-margin) and that is the problem.
>>How fast does the BT line checker think the line can go?
>>
>>I assume you've done all the obvious stuff like connecting the router to the
>>test socket behind the master socket?
>>
>As promised I've got the line stats off the router:
>
>ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
>Connection Speed 2368 kbps 256 kbps
>Line Attenuation 63 db 15.5 db
>Noise Margin 7 db 7 db
>
>(I hope the layout is preserved)
>
>Noise margin looks low, but atm the connection is holding steady.
>
>
>
If you want to track things for a bit try RouterStats.
http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm

It will monitor the stats continuously and plot Noise margin,
Attenuation and speed so you can see what is going on.

My (ADSLMax DG834G) line syncs at about 6M. Attenuation is 39db. The
Noise Margin during the day is about 6db - the target margin for Max -
spiking up to 7. But as the sun goes down the Noise margin drops away to
2 or 3 with spikes going even lower. If it goes too low for too long the
router resyncs at something around 5.5 M which raises the Noise margin
back to 6.

If I reboot during the day it will sometimes sync as high as 6.8M, but
will always then resync down during the evening as the Noise margin
drops away.

I suspect the problem is attenuation - that line looks a long way from
the exchange.


--
Peter R Cook