Stupid newbie question about legality

Sorry if this is somthing that everyone should know but I've done the net
hunting and turned up nothing definitive.

I bought a USB dongle and dangled it out of the window and got an internet
connection (without any configuration or special software) which I use. I
have no idea who it belongs to. I live in the UK.

1) Is this illegal
2) Is this immoral (by Wireless type people definition)
3) How can I find out who's net it is and ask them nicely if I can use it.
(I've done DNS lookups on my assigned IP and gateway but I just can some big
network provider)

Cheers,
Bruce.

On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:09:27 +0000, anern wrote:

> Sorry if this is somthing that everyone should know but I've done the net
> hunting and turned up nothing definitive.
>
> I bought a USB dongle and dangled it out of the window and got an internet
> connection (without any configuration or special software) which I use. I
> have no idea who it belongs to. I live in the UK.
>
> 1) Is this illegal

you know it is.

> 2) Is this immoral (by Wireless type people definition)

you know it is.

bryan with the aid of a ZX Spectrum on acid typed:

> On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:09:27 +0000, anern wrote:
>
>> Sorry if this is somthing that everyone should know but I've done the net
>> hunting and turned up nothing definitive.
>>
>> I bought a USB dongle and dangled it out of the window and got an
>> internet connection (without any configuration or special software) which
>> I use. I have no idea who it belongs to. I live in the UK.
>>
>> 1) Is this illegal
>
> you know it is.
>
>> 2) Is this immoral (by Wireless type people definition)
>
> you know it is.

Oh I'd maybe opt for the imoral, illegal well that's debatable. It may be
that some kind soul is providing internet access for free for that area.
Find the IP on http://www.ipchicken.com then do a lookup on http:/
www.ripe.net at least then you'll know the provider.

On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:13:03 +0100, TGGA wrote:

> bryan with the aid of a ZX Spectrum on acid typed:
>
>> On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:09:27 +0000, anern wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry if this is somthing that everyone should know but I've done the
>>> net hunting and turned up nothing definitive.
>>>
>>> I bought a USB dongle and dangled it out of the window and got an
>>> internet connection (without any configuration or special software)
>>> which I use. I have no idea who it belongs to. I live in the UK.
>>>
>>> 1) Is this illegal
>>
>> you know it is.
>>
>>> 2) Is this immoral (by Wireless type people definition)
>>
>> you know it is.
>
> Oh I'd maybe opt for the imoral, illegal well that's debatable. It may be
> that some kind soul is providing internet access for free for that area.
> Find the IP on http://www.ipchicken.com then do a lookup on http:/
> www.ripe.net at least then you'll know the provider.

if this guy is living above a mcdonald's restaurant, i'll take it all back :-)

"anern" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:HX6he.5161$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Sorry if this is somthing that everyone should know but I've done the net
> hunting and turned up nothing definitive.
>
> I bought a USB dongle and dangled it out of the window and got an internet
> connection (without any configuration or special software) which I use. I
> have no idea who it belongs to. I live in the UK.
>
> 1) Is this illegal
> 2) Is this immoral (by Wireless type people definition)
> 3) How can I find out who's net it is and ask them nicely if I can use it.
> (I've done DNS lookups on my assigned IP and gateway but I just can some
> big
> network provider)
>
> Cheers,
> Bruce.
>
>
>

Listen to an NPR All Things Considered story titled "The Ethicist: Stealing
Thin Air"
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4604352

April 17, 2005
Host Jennifer Ludden and Randy Cohen, The New York Times Magazine's ethics
columnist, answer a listener's ethical dilemma. A laptop computer user wants
to know if he should feel guilty for tapping into other people's wireless
networks.

anern skrev:
> Sorry if this is somthing that everyone should know but I've done the net
> hunting and turned up nothing definitive.
>
> I bought a USB dongle and dangled it out of the window and got an internet
> connection (without any configuration or special software) which I use. I
> have no idea who it belongs to. I live in the UK.
>
> 1) Is this illegal
> 2) Is this immoral (by Wireless type people definition)
> 3) How can I find out who's net it is and ask them nicely if I can use it.
> (I've done DNS lookups on my assigned IP and gateway but I just can some big
> network provider)
>
> Cheers,
> Bruce.

It's easy to secure a wireless network, .. if you read the manual.

Unless he also has shared his disk with you it's not easy to find
out who owns the network you are accessing, if you look up IP, it
belongs to an ISP.

Some opens their networks to share with other, I don't think it's
neither illegal or immoral to browse a few pages and read the email.

Browsing illegal stuff or jam the system or hach into other systems
would be both illegal and immoral.

But what if the owner has opened his network to act as a honeypot,
and snoops at your traffic at his network, to pick up password or
even try to access your (shared) disk ?

many internet protocols don't use encrypted sessions, so it's easy
to pick up passwords to email, http, ftp, telnet, ...

so it's best to use the encrypted variants before entering passwords,
like VPN, SSH, SSL, TLS, https, sftp, stelnet, ...
.....

se also: "A Cup of Bandwidth" By Robert X. Cringely:
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20050414.html

arnulf @ http://s-a.no/

The IP just turns out to be one of NTLs proxy servers, tracert yields a
little more, how about a NET SEND to the first hop ?
Oh Yea, as far as what 'I know', I'm afraid I've been out of the loop for a
bit, and wireless is completely new to me.

Cheers.


"bryan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:13:03 +0100, TGGA wrote:
>
> > bryan with the aid of a ZX Spectrum on acid typed:
> >
> >> On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:09:27 +0000, anern wrote:
> >>
> >>> Sorry if this is somthing that everyone should know but I've done the
> >>> net hunting and turned up nothing definitive.
> >>>
> >>> I bought a USB dongle and dangled it out of the window and got an
> >>> internet connection (without any configuration or special software)
> >>> which I use. I have no idea who it belongs to. I live in the UK.
> >>>
> >>> 1) Is this illegal
> >>
> >> you know it is.
> >>
> >>> 2) Is this immoral (by Wireless type people definition)
> >>
> >> you know it is.
> >
> > Oh I'd maybe opt for the imoral, illegal well that's debatable. It may
be
> > that some kind soul is providing internet access for free for that area.
> > Find the IP on http://www.ipchicken.com then do a lookup on http:/
> > www.ripe.net at least then you'll know the provider.
>
> if this guy is living above a mcdonald's restaurant, i'll take it all back
:-)

On Fri, 13 May 2005 23:42:46 +0000, anern wrote:

> The IP just turns out to be one of NTLs proxy servers, tracert yields a
> little more, how about a NET SEND to the first hop ? Oh Yea, as far as
> what 'I know', I'm afraid I've been out of the loop for a bit, and
> wireless is completely new to me.
>
> Cheers.

fair enough. as long as you know it's er... "frowned upon". :-)

I've been a little worried the security issues, most of my important stuff
is encrypted, but if Public key cryptography is still the flavour of the
day, wouldn't this be a perfect 'man in the middle' opertunity for an
unscupulous connection provider ?


"Arnulf Sortland" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:lWahe.5214$(E-Mail Removed).. .
> anern skrev:
> > Sorry if this is somthing that everyone should know but I've done the
net
> > hunting and turned up nothing definitive.
> >
> > I bought a USB dongle and dangled it out of the window and got an
internet
> > connection (without any configuration or special software) which I use.
I
> > have no idea who it belongs to. I live in the UK.
> >
> > 1) Is this illegal
> > 2) Is this immoral (by Wireless type people definition)
> > 3) How can I find out who's net it is and ask them nicely if I can use
it.
> > (I've done DNS lookups on my assigned IP and gateway but I just can some
big
> > network provider)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Bruce.
>
> It's easy to secure a wireless network, .. if you read the manual.
>
> Unless he also has shared his disk with you it's not easy to find
> out who owns the network you are accessing, if you look up IP, it
> belongs to an ISP.
>
> Some opens their networks to share with other, I don't think it's
> neither illegal or immoral to browse a few pages and read the email.
>
> Browsing illegal stuff or jam the system or hach into other systems
> would be both illegal and immoral.
>
> But what if the owner has opened his network to act as a honeypot,
> and snoops at your traffic at his network, to pick up password or
> even try to access your (shared) disk ?
>
> many internet protocols don't use encrypted sessions, so it's easy
> to pick up passwords to email, http, ftp, telnet, ...
>
> so it's best to use the encrypted variants before entering passwords,
> like VPN, SSH, SSL, TLS, https, sftp, stelnet, ...
> ....
>
> se also: "A Cup of Bandwidth" By Robert X. Cringely:
> http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20050414.html
>
> arnulf @ http://s-a.no/

>>It's easy to secure a wireless network, .. if you read the manual.
>>
>>Unless he also has shared his disk with you it's not easy to find
>>out who owns the network you are accessing, if you look up IP, it
>>belongs to an ISP.
>>
>>Some opens their networks to share with other, I don't think it's
>>neither illegal or immoral to browse a few pages and read the email.
>>
>>Browsing illegal stuff or jam the system or hach into other systems
>>would be both illegal and immoral.
>>
>>But what if the owner has opened his network to act as a honeypot,
>>and snoops at your traffic at his network, to pick up password or
>>even try to access your (shared) disk ?
>>
>>many internet protocols don't use encrypted sessions, so it's easy
>>to pick up passwords to email, http, ftp, telnet, ...
>>
>>so it's best to use the encrypted variants before entering passwords,
>>like VPN, SSH, SSL, TLS, https, sftp, stelnet, ...
>>....
>>
>>se also: "A Cup of Bandwidth" By Robert X. Cringely:
>>http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20050414.html
>>
>>arnulf @ http://s-a.no/


> I've been a little worried the security issues, most of my important stuff
> is encrypted, but if Public key cryptography is still the flavour of the

As long as you keep your private key private, and use good (private) password,
programs like PGP is safe.

> day, wouldn't this be a perfect 'man in the middle' opertunity for an
> unscupulous connection provider ?

ISP, proxies and wireless network is always 'man in the middle' if you
don't trust 'man in the middle', use secure encrypted protocols before
entering passwords.

If you don't know the reason why the wirelesss net is open, is it because:

1. It's free (and safe?)
2. Owner want to share "A Cup of Bandwidth"
3. Owner has no clue
4. It's a honeypot, where owner want to "get your data"
5. ....

In any case don't:
1. share your HD in such environments
2. use firewall on your PC (does the Microsoft firewall work on wireless or just wired connections?)
3. use secure encrypted protocols before entering password.
4. ....

Another security issue is email, emails between servers is unencrypted,
and most often also between user and server (unencrypted email is like
sending a postcard) many companies send all kind of stuff via emails,
would the same company send the same stuff printed on a postcard ?

use PGP or a similar program to encrypt drawings, proposals, ... !

arnulf @ http://s-a.no/