Struggling to find work in the I.T. field

Hello Everyone,

I recently graduated from high school about 3 months ago and during that
time I have been having a rather challenging time finding work in the I.T.
field. Just to let you know, before I go any further, I'm currently living
in Calgary, AB (in Canada). I would also like to let you know that both
computers and the internet have been a strong interest of mine for six
years.

Throughout high school I took many courses related to both computers and
networking. I was actually enrolled in a special networking class - the
Cisco Networking Academy program - in which I completed all four semesters
in two years (It's considered a college level course). I struggled to find
minor I.T. jobs through high school - my first being a three month work
experience term at a computer servicing shop. Last summer I managed to land
a summer internship at DeVry technical school. In my senior year I got
myself a part time position at a local computer repair shop (about 10-15
hours/week - I learned a lot). Then, as graduation approached, I decided to
earn some certificates to back up my knowledge and experience. I wrote and
passed the A+ and CCNA exams both on my first try and with high final
scores.

Since graduation, I've applied for jobs such as Assistant Network
Administrator, Helpdesk Analyst, and field PC Technician (for an ISP). After
an initial interview (or two) the response from these companies is that I'm
lacking in qualifications and/or experience (or someone else had a lot
more).

My question to any I.T. professionals reading this is - where do I go
from here? How am I supposed to land my first "entry-level" position into
the I.T. field? How did you land yours (when you had no prior formal
experience)?

I thought that I could get a technical job out of high school without
post-secondary education - maybe that was very naive of me. I thought that
certifications and the experience I had would be enough to get myself into
an entry-level position. Now I am seriously considering attending SAIT,
which is a technical school here in Alberta that offers 2 year technical
diplomas and has a very good reputation for finding their students jobs.
However, I don't want to waste $20,000(Canadian) and find myself in the same
position I am now - not being hired because of lack of experience. So what
would you recommend? Attending college, earning more certificates (MCP,
MCSA, database certs, etc), or volunteering for free just to get the
experience?

Just on a side note - When I was going through high school I recall
hearing so much in the media and from friends that "I.T. is the field to be
in, there's a mass shortage of qualified workers, lots of money" but I
suppose all this has changed(Spring 2000 .com flop, September 11th)? It
frustrates me to see it change so quickly and now the only people getting
hired have like Phd.'s with 5 years experience. I understand that the job
market is competitive, but how can I compete with that? Especially when no
one will hire me so that I can get those required 5 years experience!?!?

Hope I don't sound too whiney :-P. Thanks for any comments or
suggestions - I'd be happy to hear any input or thoughts.

Brennan

> I thought that I could get a technical job out of high school without
> post-secondary education - maybe that was very naive of me. I thought
> that certifications and the experience I had would be enough to get
> myself into an entry-level position. Now I am seriously considering
> attending SAIT,

Four/Five years ago, you probably could have. But now a whole lot of IT
jobs are headed to India and other areas. Not just limited to IT, but
also call centers and such too. Or at least that's the american trend at
the moment. I have 4.5 years of college, and four solid years of I.T.
employment. Noting that I've been in the biz seven years already. I will
have been unemployed a full year in a matter of days.

You probably wont find good work, if any work for a while yet. As people
with 10+ years of IT are now forced to apply for entry level jobs, and
take deli, fork lift, car sales and other positions to try and make ends
meat. It's a sad market right now. Even scary-er if you consider that
most time IT "preceeds" the economy. I still don't think we've seen the
worst of it yet. Great depression here we come.

Of course the economy would probably be a little better if I and many
others weren't denied unemployment benefits from the get go. Even my
sister in law was denied unemployment. She's a military wife who had to
leave her job because my brother was reassigned in his army job. Across
several state lines even. Probably soon to be heading to parts in the
middle east. She also works in IT.

The other factors being that in order to do anything in IT, you have to
almost know everything. So having "just" java under your belt wont even
get you a job interview in most cases. The other side of that is without
learning on the job, or some school that provides you the tools, you've
got to purchase tens of thousands of dollars of software and computers to
train yourself with marketable skills. Most of which will no longer be
marketable by the time you get out of college.

And then there's a wonderful immigration program here in the .us that has
me seriously considering immigration into another country, just to find
work. Unfortunately even though I've bought the U.S. government a brand
new lexus the past three years running, I can't even afford a plane ticket
anymore. And I'll be lucky if I somehow manage an income equal to 1/10th
of my previous years income. Most of which has been obtained by cashing
out the 401K, and last years tax return. Weren't we supposed to have a
tax break?

Sorry to sound bitter, but it's kind of hard to get over being unemployed
3 years of a 7 year career. Especially when you're skilled and were in
the top 10% of the people you went to college with to get into this field
to start with. If I wanted to be a maintenance engineer, instead of a
software engineer, I would have done so. And if I had, I'd be halfway to
retirement by now. As opposed to my current situation, where I'm still
looking at another 20 years till I can retire. IF I can ever find a job
again.

Shadow_7

Brennan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

[...]
> My question to any I.T. professionals reading this is - where do I go
> from here? How am I supposed to land my first "entry-level" position into
> the I.T. field? How did you land yours (when you had no prior formal
> experience)?
[...]
> Especially when
> no one will hire me so that I can get those required 5 years
> experience!?!?

Get your job experience elsewhere. There are always charitable
or non-profit organizations (eg. public schools) who can not
afford to pay (much) for professioinal IT service. So, you
could offer your skills there and get experience on the job
back. Even in the best cases this wouldn't be enough for a
living, though.

You could also try to get a job as a free-lancer or temp
employee. Some organizations have short-term work to offer
but they didn't want to hire a regular employee. An advantage
is that your boss gets to know you and when there is a
vacancy, maybe ... So, try to offer yourself as free-lancer,
subcontractor or temp employee to get those short-termed jobs.


Best Luck & Ciao, Horst
--
»When pings go wrong (It hurts me too)« E.Clapton/E.James/P.Tscharn

Brennan wrote:

> I recently graduated from high school about 3 months ago and during that
> time I have been having a rather challenging time finding work in the I.T.
> field.

You'll also need some post secondary education.

--

Fundamentalism is fundamentally wrong.

To reply to this message, replace everything to the left of "@" with
james.knott.

"Brennan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Hello Everyone,
>
> I recently graduated from high school about 3 months ago and during that
>time I have been having a rather challenging time finding work in the I.T.
>field. Just to let you know, before I go any further, I'm currently living
>in Calgary, AB (in Canada). I would also like to let you know that both
>computers and the internet have been a strong interest of mine for six
>years.

consider phoning the local cable companies and offering your services as home
installation engineer for all those people requiring cable/adsl internet.

IT help desk jobs suck major ass anyway so India can have those jobs!

Dear Brennan,

I will give you the UK version....most probably will apply to the rest of the
world.

Qualifications mean jack. Its experience experience experience. Until you
have at least two years of experience in a commerial (company even charity)
environment you will find it very difficult to find work. College, CISCO,
Deadrat, MCSE exams will not help you to obtain jobs where manglement rules
and you do not want a job where manglement mess with your brain.

Trust me lower pay for lower manglement is the attitude you need to develop.

Others have suggested you do work for charities and schools which is a good
idea. I started off in an ISP (well before I worked for a local media
company on their 'helldesk'). Now that I am friendly with the boss, its due
to my sheer 'social handicappness' at high school and why I probably got a
third in physics at university that I am <smug_mode>better
qualified</smug_mode> than all the other CVs. I have to tell you have have
seen a stack of CVs and most of them are full of tripe and la-de-da-ness (aka
waffle), these people get employed and are useless. The real geeks put in a
stack of things they have found time to teach themselves during their 'bum'
status and played with ideas. The others simply use buzz words and badly use
jargon which instantly highlights how little they know.

I recommend you aim for _small_ ISPs as then you can get your finger is many
pies and at least some exposure to every aspect of sysadmin's (or in your and
my situations, PFYing).

Another suggestion is to steer clear of agencies....a complete waste of your
time. Friends of friends of friends and adverts in local newspapers.
Another suggestion do not pay for courses, not a penny; remember
qualifications mean jack.

Follow security bulletins, read TheReg, read NTK, follow a.s.r., grovel to
the Oracle, stop using M$ Lookout in a linux newsgroup, do things
differently, do them differently again, learn what really happens when you
type 'dpkg --force-depends --purge dpkg apt-get', use Debian, poo poo
DeadRat, munch perl source code, patch kernels, file bug reports, respect
Alan C, Schneider (and his monthly post), love those Debian 'consulatants'
who wear stained BOFH t-shirts at a suit event with beer bellies and beards,
growl at conslutants.....learn Sysadmin.

Regards

Alex

In article <NI8ab.517$TM4.175@pd7tw2no>, Brennan wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> [snipped general waffle....]

I'm sorry, what?

"Alexander Clouter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:6eedkb.1pe.ln@127.0.0.1...
> Dear Brennan,
>
> I will give you the UK version....most probably will apply to the rest of
the
> world.
>
> Qualifications mean jack. Its experience experience experience. Until
you
> have at least two years of experience in a commerial (company even
charity)
> environment you will find it very difficult to find work. College, CISCO,
> Deadrat, MCSE exams will not help you to obtain jobs where manglement
rules
> and you do not want a job where manglement mess with your brain.
>
> Trust me lower pay for lower manglement is the attitude you need to
develop.
>
> Others have suggested you do work for charities and schools which is a
good
> idea. I started off in an ISP (well before I worked for a local media
> company on their 'helldesk'). Now that I am friendly with the boss, its
due
> to my sheer 'social handicappness' at high school and why I probably got a
> third in physics at university that I am <smug_mode>better
> qualified</smug_mode> than all the other CVs. I have to tell you have
have
> seen a stack of CVs and most of them are full of tripe and la-de-da-ness
(aka
> waffle), these people get employed and are useless. The real geeks put in
a
> stack of things they have found time to teach themselves during their
'bum'
> status and played with ideas. The others simply use buzz words and badly
use
> jargon which instantly highlights how little they know.
>
> I recommend you aim for _small_ ISPs as then you can get your finger is
many
> pies and at least some exposure to every aspect of sysadmin's (or in your
and
> my situations, PFYing).
>
> Another suggestion is to steer clear of agencies....a complete waste of
your
> time. Friends of friends of friends and adverts in local newspapers.
> Another suggestion do not pay for courses, not a penny; remember
> qualifications mean jack.
>
> Follow security bulletins, read TheReg, read NTK, follow a.s.r., grovel to
> the Oracle, stop using M$ Lookout in a linux newsgroup, do things
> differently, do them differently again, learn what really happens when you
> type 'dpkg --force-depends --purge dpkg apt-get', use Debian, poo poo
> DeadRat, munch perl source code, patch kernels, file bug reports, respect
> Alan C, Schneider (and his monthly post), love those Debian 'consulatants'
> who wear stained BOFH t-shirts at a suit event with beer bellies and
beards,
> growl at conslutants.....learn Sysadmin.
>
> Regards
>
> Alex
>
> In article <NI8ab.517$TM4.175@pd7tw2no>, Brennan wrote:
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > [snipped general waffle....]

Brennan wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I recently graduated from high school about 3 months ago and during that
> time I have been having a rather challenging time finding work in the I.T.
> field. Just to let you know, before I go any further, I'm currently living
> in Calgary, AB (in Canada). I would also like to let you know that both
> computers and the internet have been a strong interest of mine for six
> years.
>
> Throughout high school I took many courses related to both computers and
> networking. I was actually enrolled in a special networking class - the
> Cisco Networking Academy program - in which I completed all four semesters
> in two years (It's considered a college level course). I struggled to find
> minor I.T. jobs through high school - my first being a three month work
> experience term at a computer servicing shop. Last summer I managed to land
> a summer internship at DeVry technical school. In my senior year I got
> myself a part time position at a local computer repair shop (about 10-15
> hours/week - I learned a lot). Then, as graduation approached, I decided to
> earn some certificates to back up my knowledge and experience. I wrote and
> passed the A+ and CCNA exams both on my first try and with high final
> scores.
>
> Since graduation, I've applied for jobs such as Assistant Network
> Administrator, Helpdesk Analyst, and field PC Technician (for an ISP). After
> an initial interview (or two) the response from these companies is that I'm
> lacking in qualifications and/or experience (or someone else had a lot
> more).
>
> My question to any I.T. professionals reading this is - where do I go
> from here? How am I supposed to land my first "entry-level" position into
> the I.T. field? How did you land yours (when you had no prior formal
> experience)?
>
> I thought that I could get a technical job out of high school without
> post-secondary education - maybe that was very naive of me. I thought that
> certifications and the experience I had would be enough to get myself into
> an entry-level position. Now I am seriously considering attending SAIT,
> which is a technical school here in Alberta that offers 2 year technical
> diplomas and has a very good reputation for finding their students jobs.
> However, I don't want to waste $20,000(Canadian) and find myself in the same
> position I am now - not being hired because of lack of experience. So what
> would you recommend? Attending college, earning more certificates (MCP,
> MCSA, database certs, etc), or volunteering for free just to get the
> experience?
>
> Just on a side note - When I was going through high school I recall
> hearing so much in the media and from friends that "I.T. is the field to be
> in, there's a mass shortage of qualified workers, lots of money" but I
> suppose all this has changed(Spring 2000 .com flop, September 11th)? It
> frustrates me to see it change so quickly and now the only people getting
> hired have like Phd.'s with 5 years experience. I understand that the job
> market is competitive, but how can I compete with that? Especially when no
> one will hire me so that I can get those required 5 years experience!?!?
>
> Hope I don't sound too whiney :-P. Thanks for any comments or
> suggestions - I'd be happy to hear any input or thoughts.
>
> Brennan
>
>

Good luck!! My daughter graduated last year from Univ of Az with double
degree in Math and CS (also B.A. in German). Was employed by a
government contractor for a year and has now been out of work for three
months - can't find a damned thing anywhere.

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Brennan wrote:
> I'm sorry, what?
>
>

The other poster rambled and was *trying* to poke fun.
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"Brennan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<NI8ab.517$TM4.175@pd7tw2no>...
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I recently graduated from high school about 3 months ago and during that
> time I have been having a rather challenging time finding work in the I.T.
> field. Just to let you know, before I go any further, I'm currently living
> in Calgary, AB (in Canada). I would also like to let you know that both
> computers and the internet have been a strong interest of mine for six
> years.
> <snip>

Hi Brennan,

I'm not sure about the job market in Canada, but here in Texas, tech
jobs are few and far between. From what I gathered from your post,
you only have a high school education? It would definately help to
get at least an Associates degree (2-year degree) in Computer
Networking, Computer Science, or something similar. Most places in my
area won't hire anyone without at least that secondary degree.

But if you have the drive, you can always start your own side
business. Network consulting, web design, on-site PC repair, and
other related tasks can make you nice money since you've got little to
no overhead. If you're confident in what you know, it's nothing to
help a smaller business setup a network or work-up a dynamic web page.
Even advertising yourself as an on-site PC repair guy to visit
people's homes or businesses to fix computers is great money if you
charge $50-$75/hour plus parts.

Hope this helps...

Alex.