Specs for a super-cheap, super-small httpd server

Sorry to cross post this, but I think that this message has to do with
a lot of topics and I wasn't sure where to put it to get the best help.
I'm looking for some advice on the following topic. First my
thoughts, then the questions.

I'm building a web-based intranet (note: not internet) app. I want it
to be able to offer it with hardware, but I want something small. I'm
thinking that the best way to go will be to load Linux onto a biscuit
PC along with Apache, PHP, MySQL, and Firefox (the server also needs to
be one of the client machines, so it needs a graphical web browser).
This means that I'll probably need some sort of window manager in order
to display Firefox. I'll be functioning as a remote administrator, so
I'll still need to be able to ssh/sftp into the box. An additional
kink: I want to attach a touchscreen CRT monitor to this as an input
device (in addition to a keyboard/mouse). Finally, I want this to
attach to both a live internet connection (so I can get into the box
remotely) and to a wireless intranet (it will be serving its pages over
the wireless network).

The questions:
-At first glance, how does this sound?
-Which distro of Linux should I choose? It needs to be light, but
still needs a window manager.
-What specs should the PC have? The server will be serving (at the
absolute, probably-will-never-be-achieved maximum) 5 requests/minute,
so it isn't going to need to be super-powerful. I'm thinking of using
some sort of external hard disk, so what do you recommend? CF? USB
key? Microdrive?
-Are my software choices appropriate? PHP and MySQL are in for sure,
but I'm open to suggestions as far as light and quick server and
(graphical) browser apps. I'm know some of what is out there, but I
sure as heck am not familiar with everything!
-Is it possible to get a touchscreen monitor to work with Linux? Is
there some brand out there that has Linux drivers?
-Finally, with a system like this will it be possibly to remotely flash
the storage of the server? That way I can just have one test station
and flash out to all the rest of the servers when I'm ready.

Thank you all so much for your help on this. I really am looking
forward to all the varied responses that I may get to these questions.
Feel free to submit whatever other opinion, suggestion, improvement, or
criticism that you may have. Thanks!

-Jesse
jjoneill [at] wisc [dot] edu

The right honourable jesse spake:

> Sorry to cross post this, but I think that this message has to do with
> a lot of topics and I wasn't sure where to put it to get the best help.
> I'm looking for some advice on the following topic. First my
> thoughts, then the questions.
>
> I'm building a web-based intranet (note: not internet) app. I want it
> to be able to offer it with hardware, but I want something small. I'm
> thinking that the best way to go will be to load Linux onto a biscuit
> PC along with Apache, PHP, MySQL, and Firefox (the server also needs to
> be one of the client machines, so it needs a graphical web browser).
> This means that I'll probably need some sort of window manager in order
> to display Firefox. I'll be functioning as a remote administrator, so
> I'll still need to be able to ssh/sftp into the box. An additional

Well, I recently did these successfully with Rh9 on a 300mHz K6 AMD CPU
based system with 64MB of RAM and a 20GB HDD.

> kink: I want to attach a touchscreen CRT monitor to this as an input
> device (in addition to a keyboard/mouse). Finally, I want this to

Don't know about these.

> attach to both a live internet connection (so I can get into the box
> remotely) and to a wireless intranet (it will be serving its pages over
> the wireless network).
>
> The questions:
> -At first glance, how does this sound?

Very doable, and you should be able to do it on a very low spec machine.

> -Which distro of Linux should I choose? It needs to be light, but
> still needs a window manager.

Don't know recent distros that well, but I did this perfectly satisfactorily
with Rh9 which is rather old. I would suggest Fedora, but it is much too
bloated in my opinion. I've seen it but never installed it, so I don't know
how configurable (and scaleable) it is. I think that almost any distro will
do, but I generally prefer Redhat.

> -What specs should the PC have? The server will be serving (at the
> absolute, probably-will-never-be-achieved maximum) 5 requests/minute,
> so it isn't going to need to be super-powerful. I'm thinking of using
> some sort of external hard disk, so what do you recommend? CF? USB
> key? Microdrive?

Well, mine at 300mHz is perfectly satisfactory. Don't know about the
external stuff though - my serverette has a plain vanilla IDE HDD.

> -Are my software choices appropriate? PHP and MySQL are in for sure,
> but I'm open to suggestions as far as light and quick server and
> (graphical) browser apps. I'm know some of what is out there, but I
> sure as heck am not familiar with everything!

PHP and MySQL will do for sure. I can even run Xwindows (albeit S-L-O-W-L-Y)
on my 300 mHz machine, if I really need to. Most of the times I just telnet
into it (I don't need secure access, so I don't use SSH).

> -Is it possible to get a touchscreen monitor to work with Linux? Is
> there some brand out there that has Linux drivers?

No idea, and I think this is a bit of long shot...

> -Finally, with a system like this will it be possibly to remotely flash
> the storage of the server? That way I can just have one test station
> and flash out to all the rest of the servers when I'm ready.

Dunno.

> Thank you all so much for your help on this. I really am looking
> forward to all the varied responses that I may get to these questions.
> Feel free to submit whatever other opinion, suggestion, improvement, or
> criticism that you may have. Thanks!

Definitely workable, even on very low spec machines, and, if you get a very
configurable distro, it should work. I suspect though that you'll have
trouble using all the perhipherals you mention - especially the
touchscreen.
--
---
Stefan Viljoen
Software Support Technician / Programmer
Polar Design Solutions

"Stefan Viljoen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:d02d2t$l0a$(E-Mail Removed)...
> The right honourable jesse spake:
>
>
> Well, I recently did these successfully with Rh9 on a 300mHz K6 AMD CPU

300 milliHertz? ( Mega is uppercase M)
Pat

"jesse" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> Sorry to cross post this, but I think that this message has to do with
> a lot of topics and I wasn't sure where to put it to get the best help.
> I'm looking for some advice on the following topic. First my
> thoughts, then the questions.
>
> I'm building a web-based intranet (note: not internet) app. I want it
> to be able to offer it with hardware, but I want something small. I'm
> thinking that the best way to go will be to load Linux onto a biscuit
> PC along with Apache, PHP, MySQL, and Firefox (the server also needs to
> be one of the client machines, so it needs a graphical web browser).
> This means that I'll probably need some sort of window manager in order
> to display Firefox. I'll be functioning as a remote administrator, so
> I'll still need to be able to ssh/sftp into the box. An additional
> kink: I want to attach a touchscreen CRT monitor to this as an input
> device (in addition to a keyboard/mouse). Finally, I want this to
> attach to both a live internet connection (so I can get into the box
> remotely) and to a wireless intranet (it will be serving its pages over
> the wireless network).
>
> The questions:
> -At first glance, how does this sound?
> -Which distro of Linux should I choose? It needs to be light, but
> still needs a window manager.
> -What specs should the PC have? The server will be serving (at the
> absolute, probably-will-never-be-achieved maximum) 5 requests/minute,
> so it isn't going to need to be super-powerful. I'm thinking of using
> some sort of external hard disk, so what do you recommend? CF? USB
> key? Microdrive?
> -Are my software choices appropriate? PHP and MySQL are in for sure,
> but I'm open to suggestions as far as light and quick server and
> (graphical) browser apps. I'm know some of what is out there, but I
> sure as heck am not familiar with everything!
> -Is it possible to get a touchscreen monitor to work with Linux? Is
> there some brand out there that has Linux drivers?
> -Finally, with a system like this will it be possibly to remotely flash
> the storage of the server? That way I can just have one test station
> and flash out to all the rest of the servers when I'm ready.
>
> Thank you all so much for your help on this. I really am looking
> forward to all the varied responses that I may get to these questions.
> Feel free to submit whatever other opinion, suggestion, improvement, or
> criticism that you may have. Thanks!
>
> -Jesse
> jjoneill [at] wisc [dot] edu
>
Vector is nice and lightweight, so you may want to look into Vector Linux
Standard 4.3. It doesn't have KDE, but for your purposes, IceWM (1.2.13)
should be more than enough. You'll have to install httpd and associates
yourself, and sadly it only includes Mozilla 1.7. It does, however, run well
on older machines. It uses the 2.6.7 kernel, for better or for worse.

If Vector Standard isn't good enough, you could use Vector 5 SOHO, which
includes KDE 3.3.2 (but you don't have to use it!), and still IceWM 1.2.13.
It includes MySQL 4.1.7, httpd 2.0.52 (second-latest version!), php 5.0.2
(second-latest version!), perl 5.8.6 (newest!), phpMyAdmin 2.6.0-pl3. It
uses the stable kernel 2.4.29. All packages lists are available at
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=vector. It does include much
software you may not want to install, such as Blender3D.

You may also want to check out SimplyMEPIS, which I have heard that runs
well on older machines.

And White Box Linux may also be a good option.

Software-wise, you may want to install Webmin to ease your administration,
or not.

I am no expert on hardware, so I won't even try that.
--
Anonymous

"Treat your password like your toothbrush.
Don't let anybody else use it, and get
a new one every six months."
---Clifford Stoll

In comp.os.linux.development.system jesse <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

| This means that I'll probably need some sort of window manager in order
| to display Firefox.

You should be able to start up Firefox directly as the first (and only)
X client instead of (and without) a window manager. Of course any
libraries Firefox needs will have to be present. Be sure to disable
popups as w/o a window manager, you might not be able to close them.

You don't absolutely need a window manager. But you might not like the
raw form of X Windows you get that way.


| -Are my software choices appropriate? PHP and MySQL are in for sure,
| but I'm open to suggestions as far as light and quick server and
| (graphical) browser apps. I'm know some of what is out there, but I
| sure as heck am not familiar with everything!

If you need web programming and a database, those are probably your
best choices.


| -Finally, with a system like this will it be possibly to remotely flash
| the storage of the server? That way I can just have one test station
| and flash out to all the rest of the servers when I'm ready.

Is a CDROM an option for you?

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http://phil.ipal.org/ http://ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,
For a Touchscreen solution try MagicTouch addon kit, it can be used with
LCD and CRT monitors and it acts as a mouse. Of course, it will work
with Linux.

There are version available with USB and serial ports (i definetly
recommend the serial so you wont have problems with drivers etc etc.)

I used one for a Restaurant POS system once (long time ago...) and it
was really nice.

http://www.magictouch.com/addon.html#monitor

There is also another brand, Elo Touch, ( http://www.elotouch.com/ )
Which also works linux, they provide complete Touch enabled Monitors
(LCD and CRT). It may be useful.

As for the external HD, I am not pretty shure, I myself have a IDE drive
connected to my laptop via an external adaptor similar to this:
http://www.usbgear.com/computer_cabl...131&catid=131).


I dont know about supported brands but, I think mine is not a special
brand and it works (it recongizes the disk as /dev/sda) of course it is
USB 2, now, I will strongly recommend to use internal because of the
speed/transference rate, and, well, any IDE-HD will be cheaper than an
external HD (or Internal HD + adapter).

Now, about the X-window / web browser in the server, I would sugest
avoiding X-window unless it is really necesary, if you only need X and
the web browser to configure the server I think it is not neccesary and
you can even run it just when you need it, that way you wont waste
resources by running it all the time (i.e. dont start it at boot).

If you want it to be another client machine for your intranet, well, I
think it is better to leave it alone as a server, that way, you may not
need a monitor! (dedicated) and after setup, you can control everything
from ssh and/or web interface.

Mmmm. well, anyway if you are going to use a Touchscreen, then you
*surely* need a monitor ... i think i just let my mind wonder a bit.


Cheers!

jesse wrote:
> Sorry to cross post this, but I think that this message has to do with
> a lot of topics and I wasn't sure where to put it to get the best help.
> I'm looking for some advice on the following topic. First my
> thoughts, then the questions.
>
> I'm building a web-based intranet (note: not internet) app. I want it
> to be able to offer it with hardware, but I want something small. I'm
> thinking that the best way to go will be to load Linux onto a biscuit
> PC along with Apache, PHP, MySQL, and Firefox (the server also needs to
> be one of the client machines, so it needs a graphical web browser).
> This means that I'll probably need some sort of window manager in order
> to display Firefox. I'll be functioning as a remote administrator, so
> I'll still need to be able to ssh/sftp into the box. An additional
> kink: I want to attach a touchscreen CRT monitor to this as an input
> device (in addition to a keyboard/mouse). Finally, I want this to
> attach to both a live internet connection (so I can get into the box
> remotely) and to a wireless intranet (it will be serving its pages over
> the wireless network).
>
> The questions:
> -At first glance, how does this sound?
> -Which distro of Linux should I choose? It needs to be light, but
> still needs a window manager.
> -What specs should the PC have? The server will be serving (at the
> absolute, probably-will-never-be-achieved maximum) 5 requests/minute,
> so it isn't going to need to be super-powerful. I'm thinking of using
> some sort of external hard disk, so what do you recommend? CF? USB
> key? Microdrive?
> -Are my software choices appropriate? PHP and MySQL are in for sure,
> but I'm open to suggestions as far as light and quick server and
> (graphical) browser apps. I'm know some of what is out there, but I
> sure as heck am not familiar with everything!
> -Is it possible to get a touchscreen monitor to work with Linux? Is
> there some brand out there that has Linux drivers?
> -Finally, with a system like this will it be possibly to remotely flash
> the storage of the server? That way I can just have one test station
> and flash out to all the rest of the servers when I'm ready.
>
> Thank you all so much for your help on this. I really am looking
> forward to all the varied responses that I may get to these questions.
> Feel free to submit whatever other opinion, suggestion, improvement, or
> criticism that you may have. Thanks!
>
> -Jesse
> jjoneill [at] wisc [dot] edu
>


--
std P.S. I gladly accept replies with constructive and intelligent
information, please abstent of writing flames or anything else as I
will only read them and laugh (i.e. I will not answer them.)