Spanning two houses 1/3 mile apart

Got a cabin in the mountains and the local cable ISP wants $70 month for an
internet connection and that is way too much for occassional use.

My neighbor lives on a hill about 1/4-1/3 mile away. I could see his house
if not for the trees so I don't have a good LOS.

My goal is to have a box in my cabin that will allow me to connect my laptop
via both the Ethernet cable and Wireless card as I need to be on two VPN's
at the same time for work using virtual machines. Also need to connect my
Vonage phone...basically need my own hub...don't think I need my own
"network".

My buddy is running a Linksys 802.11G router/WAP.

I think a couple of 9dB (Hawking?) directional antennas pointed to intersect
above the trees will cover the distance but am wondering what the best
solution on my end for the hub would be. Open to new/better antenna options
too.

Most routers/WAP are designed to be connected to a cable/DSL modem. I need
my hub/AP to connect via the wireless network and be able to provide
wireless and wired access....Will the standard router/WAPs do that? If not,
what do I need?

Peace,

FarmerG

On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 10:44:30 -0500, "Greg Schisla"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<ovmyh.339$(E-Mail Removed)>:

>Got a cabin in the mountains and the local cable ISP wants $70 month for an
>internet connection and that is way too much for occassional use.
>
>My neighbor lives on a hill about 1/4-1/3 mile away. I could see his house
>if not for the trees so I don't have a good LOS.

Unfortunately, Wi-Fi doesn't penetrate trees. If you can't get clear
line of sight (including Fresnel zone), consider running buried Ethernet
cable.

>My buddy is running a Linksys 802.11G router/WAP.
>
>I think a couple of 9dB (Hawking?) directional antennas pointed to intersect
>above the trees will cover the distance but am wondering what the best
>solution on my end for the hub would be. Open to new/better antenna options
>too.

There no such thing as radio wave "intersection" -- radio travels in a
straight line, and you need clear line of sight.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

John Navas wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 10:44:30 -0500, "Greg Schisla"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> <ovmyh.339$(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
>>Got a cabin in the mountains and the local cable ISP wants $70 month for
>>an internet connection and that is way too much for occassional use.
>>
>>My neighbor lives on a hill about 1/4-1/3 mile away. I could see his house
>>if not for the trees so I don't have a good LOS.
>
> Unfortunately, Wi-Fi doesn't penetrate trees. If you can't get clear
> line of sight (including Fresnel zone), consider running buried Ethernet
> cable.
Ethernet cable of 1/4 - 1/3 mile (400-530 meters). Would that work?

On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 17:28:48 -0500, in alt.internet.wireless , Roby
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, Wi-Fi doesn't penetrate trees. If you can't get clear
>> line of sight (including Fresnel zone), consider running buried Ethernet
>> cable.
>Ethernet cable of 1/4 - 1/3 mile (400-530 meters). Would that work?

Normal thin ethernet 10/100base-T - no, 70m max.

However thick ethernet (10base-5) has a theoretical segment length of
around 500 metres (eg see http://www.csot.com/ethernet/10Base5.htm).

You'd need to find network equipment capable of utilising it of
course. Thick ethernet trancievers and NICs with AUI ports are quite
rare these days.

An alternative if you can live with low data rates would be to set up
a serial line. 56K modem at each end, phone cable between the two,
that sort of thing.


--
Mark McIntyre

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 00:15:17 +0000, Mark McIntyre
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<(E-Mail Removed)>:

>On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 17:28:48 -0500, in alt.internet.wireless , Roby
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>John Navas wrote:
>>
>>> Unfortunately, Wi-Fi doesn't penetrate trees. If you can't get clear
>>> line of sight (including Fresnel zone), consider running buried Ethernet
>>> cable.
>>Ethernet cable of 1/4 - 1/3 mile (400-530 meters). Would that work?
>
>Normal thin ethernet 10/100base-T - no, 70m max.
>
>However thick ethernet (10base-5) has a theoretical segment length of
>around 500 metres (eg see http://www.csot.com/ethernet/10Base5.htm).
>
> You'd need to find network equipment capable of utilising it of
>course. Thick ethernet trancievers and NICs with AUI ports are quite
>rare these days.
>
>An alternative if you can live with low data rates would be to set up
>a serial line. 56K modem at each end, phone cable between the two,
>that sort of thing.

Another option that's much faster (e.g., 2 Mbps) is to use special "dry
pair" DSL modems (e.g., Pairgain 300S) at each end, but it's not cheap.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

Roby <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>Ethernet cable of 1/4 - 1/3 mile (400-530 meters). Would that work?

No. I've gone 275 meters with 10baseT-HDX (half duplex). It won't
work at 100baseTX. The official maximum ethernet length is 100
meters. I've also gone about 275 meters with coax cable using RG-6/u
and 10base2 (cheapernet). However, I'm fairly sure there is some
manner of timing limit at about 400 meters of CAT5e and coax. It's
easy enough to test with a 300 meter roll of CAT5e. Just put
connectors on both ends and try it. The biggest headache will be be
forcing the speed down to 10baseT-HDX.

You might be able to make it work with an ethernet switch at midpoint
acting as a repeater. You can power this switch with PoE at 48vdc if
local power in unavailable. I don't know of a product that will be
suitable and cheap but can do some digging.

There are also ethernet line extenders that will work out to several
km. See:
<http://www.patton.com/products/pe_products.asp?category=146>
<http://www.rad-direct.com/App-Ethernet-extender-copper.htm>
<http://www.cdw.com/shop/search/results.aspx?key=ethernet+extender>
etc. The catch is that they are very expensive.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Roby wrote:
> Ethernet cable of 1/4 - 1/3 mile (400-530 meters). Would that work?

Yes, if you used extender boxes. And NOT EXPENSIVE.

http://www.netsys-direct.com

Kit - Ethernet HyperExtender Lite
Product ID: NH-300EEKIT
1Mbps point-to-point Ethernet connection up to 5,000 feet
$148.50 for a kit of two units.

Kit - Ethernet HyperExtender XL
Product ID: NH-300SEKIT
1Mbps point-to-point Ethernet connection up to 1,600 feet
$117.8 for a kit of two units.

OK....I've gotten other feedback that makes me believe I can make the
wireless solution work with a couple 24 dBi antennas. It's only 1/4-1/3
mile and the target house is on a hill overlooking my cabin. 90% of the
distance is open space with the need to only penetrate a few trees before
the LOS will be above an remaining trees between the two targets.

Due to job requirements (I'm doing this so I can work from the cabin) I'll
need to run a virtual machine on my laptop which uses the wireless
connection, the host OS which needs to use the Ethernet connection and the
Vonage phone will need a connection.

Assuming the signal is present, will something like a Linksys WRT54GS allow
me to use a static IP from the host network for the Linksys device and then
use it as a local router for my wireless laptop, hardwired connection and a
vonage VOIP router or do I need different/additional hardware to manage my
"secondary" network?





"Greg Schisla" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
newsvmyh.339$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Got a cabin in the mountains and the local cable ISP wants $70 month for
> an internet connection and that is way too much for occassional use.
>
> My neighbor lives on a hill about 1/4-1/3 mile away. I could see his house
> if not for the trees so I don't have a good LOS.
>
> My goal is to have a box in my cabin that will allow me to connect my
> laptop via both the Ethernet cable and Wireless card as I need to be on
> two VPN's at the same time for work using virtual machines. Also need to
> connect my Vonage phone...basically need my own hub...don't think I need
> my own "network".
>
> My buddy is running a Linksys 802.11G router/WAP.
>
> I think a couple of 9dB (Hawking?) directional antennas pointed to
> intersect above the trees will cover the distance but am wondering what
> the best solution on my end for the hub would be. Open to new/better
> antenna options too.
>
> Most routers/WAP are designed to be connected to a cable/DSL modem. I need
> my hub/AP to connect via the wireless network and be able to provide
> wireless and wired access....Will the standard router/WAPs do that? If
> not, what do I need?
>
> Peace,
>
> FarmerG
>
>

In article <2RHyh.335$(E-Mail Removed)>,
Greg Schisla <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>OK....I've gotten other feedback that makes me believe I can make the
>wireless solution work with a couple 24 dBi antennas. It's only 1/4-1/3
>mile and the target house is on a hill overlooking my cabin. 90% of the
>distance is open space with the need to only penetrate a few trees before
>the LOS will be above an remaining trees between the two targets.
>
>Due to job requirements (I'm doing this so I can work from the cabin) I'll
>need to run a virtual machine on my laptop which uses the wireless
>connection, the host OS which needs to use the Ethernet connection and the
>Vonage phone will need a connection.
>
>Assuming the signal is present, will something like a Linksys WRT54GS allow
>me to use a static IP from the host network for the Linksys device and then
>use it as a local router for my wireless laptop, hardwired connection and a
>vonage VOIP router or do I need different/additional hardware to manage my
>"secondary" network?
>
>
>
>
>
>"Greg Schisla" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>newsvmyh.339$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Got a cabin in the mountains and the local cable ISP wants $70 month for
>> an internet connection and that is way too much for occassional use.
>>
>> My neighbor lives on a hill about 1/4-1/3 mile away. I could see his house
>> if not for the trees so I don't have a good LOS.
>>
>> My goal is to have a box in my cabin that will allow me to connect my
>> laptop via both the Ethernet cable and Wireless card as I need to be on
>> two VPN's at the same time for work using virtual machines. Also need to
>> connect my Vonage phone...basically need my own hub...don't think I need
>> my own "network".
>>
>> My buddy is running a Linksys 802.11G router/WAP.
>>
>> I think a couple of 9dB (Hawking?) directional antennas pointed to
>> intersect above the trees will cover the distance but am wondering what
>> the best solution on my end for the hub would be. Open to new/better
>> antenna options too.
>>
>> Most routers/WAP are designed to be connected to a cable/DSL modem. I need
>> my hub/AP to connect via the wireless network and be able to provide
>> wireless and wired access....Will the standard router/WAPs do that? If
>> not, what do I need?
>>
>> Peace,
>>
>> FarmerG
>>
>>

Good luck when the foliage comes back in a couple months.


Does 5GHz ("A" WiFi) have different attenuation characteristics for
folaige. A 5GHz dish is *really* focused.







--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

It's worth a try. I can afford the antennas and if it doesn't work well
enough, I can find other uses for the equipment and have other neighbors I
could share my connection with if I end up getting my own from the cable
company.

Anyone want to answer my real question instead of giving me grief ?


"Al Dykes" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:eqfi6c$jba$(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <2RHyh.335$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Greg Schisla <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>OK....I've gotten other feedback that makes me believe I can make the
>>wireless solution work with a couple 24 dBi antennas. It's only 1/4-1/3
>>mile and the target house is on a hill overlooking my cabin. 90% of the
>>distance is open space with the need to only penetrate a few trees before
>>the LOS will be above an remaining trees between the two targets.
>>
>>Due to job requirements (I'm doing this so I can work from the cabin) I'll
>>need to run a virtual machine on my laptop which uses the wireless
>>connection, the host OS which needs to use the Ethernet connection and the
>>Vonage phone will need a connection.
>>
>>Assuming the signal is present, will something like a Linksys WRT54GS
>>allow
>>me to use a static IP from the host network for the Linksys device and
>>then
>>use it as a local router for my wireless laptop, hardwired connection and
>>a
>>vonage VOIP router or do I need different/additional hardware to manage my
>>"secondary" network?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Greg Schisla" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>newsvmyh.339$(E-Mail Removed).. .
>>> Got a cabin in the mountains and the local cable ISP wants $70 month for
>>> an internet connection and that is way too much for occassional use.
>>>
>>> My neighbor lives on a hill about 1/4-1/3 mile away. I could see his
>>> house
>>> if not for the trees so I don't have a good LOS.
>>>
>>> My goal is to have a box in my cabin that will allow me to connect my
>>> laptop via both the Ethernet cable and Wireless card as I need to be on
>>> two VPN's at the same time for work using virtual machines. Also need to
>>> connect my Vonage phone...basically need my own hub...don't think I need
>>> my own "network".
>>>
>>> My buddy is running a Linksys 802.11G router/WAP.
>>>
>>> I think a couple of 9dB (Hawking?) directional antennas pointed to
>>> intersect above the trees will cover the distance but am wondering what
>>> the best solution on my end for the hub would be. Open to new/better
>>> antenna options too.
>>>
>>> Most routers/WAP are designed to be connected to a cable/DSL modem. I
>>> need
>>> my hub/AP to connect via the wireless network and be able to provide
>>> wireless and wired access....Will the standard router/WAPs do that? If
>>> not, what do I need?
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>>
>>> FarmerG
>>>
>>>
>
> Good luck when the foliage comes back in a couple months.
>
>
> Does 5GHz ("A" WiFi) have different attenuation characteristics for
> folaige. A 5GHz dish is *really* focused.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
> Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001