some pointers RE BT openworld managed router service

after some recent issues with BT openworld i thought i'd post up a couple of
pointers for reference.

the service which my client has is network 1000 and they have 5 static IP
addresses.

if the engineer installs a box fresh router then they are supposed to log in
as startup_user@startup_domain with password ADSL. they will not always do
this - in our case not once.

the router should then be configured atuomatically - and the process could
take up to 4 hours.

if they just change the login to the customer's login then the router will
get a dynamic IP as it should but the router will be set to run NAT and the
static IP traffic will not get through.

even if you use the startup login it does not seem to work reliably - it did
not work at all for a 5861 router and the seimens 5830 was not responding
properly.

in this case you'll have to get hold of the 'ethernet desk' at BT openworld.

they should be able to access the router remotely and what they need to do
is to switch NAT to NO-NAT.

the static IP addresses should now work fine with and devices plugged in
will be able to use them.

and a point i'd like to add...

the siemens router did not like the ethernet protection sockets on a UPS.

three other routers worked fine - but the siemens 5830 had very flaky
traffic on it's LAN side if the traffic went through the surge protector.



the part that i'm not sure about - and before i get flamed will not be
charging the client for - was when i was trying to set up my own billion
router to act as the BT router.

it would login over ADSL and get assigned a dynamic IP address for its own
use.

was it just turning off NAT which would enable internet traffic for the
static IP addresses to be able to get through to the devices? or is
something else needed such as static routes or half-bridge mode?

anyway - thanks for all the help - we got there in the end.

bear in mind that BT openworld help will say that the router is set up fine
even if you have static IP addresses and the router is still in NAT mode -
you'll need to get hold of the ehternet desk to get any real help.

cheers,

kev

"kevin bailey" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:dvr8bl$k51$1$(E-Mail Removed)...
> after some recent issues with BT openworld i thought i'd post up a couple
> of
> pointers for reference.
>
> the service which my client has is network 1000 and they have 5 static IP
> addresses.
>
> if the engineer installs a box fresh router then they are supposed to log
> in
> as startup_user@startup_domain with password ADSL. they will not always
> do
> this - in our case not once.
>
> the router should then be configured atuomatically - and the process could
> take up to 4 hours.
>
> if they just change the login to the customer's login then the router will
> get a dynamic IP as it should but the router will be set to run NAT and
> the
> static IP traffic will not get through.
>
> even if you use the startup login it does not seem to work reliably - it
> did
> not work at all for a 5861 router and the seimens 5830 was not responding
> properly.
>
> in this case you'll have to get hold of the 'ethernet desk' at BT
> openworld.
>
> they should be able to access the router remotely and what they need to do
> is to switch NAT to NO-NAT.
>
> the static IP addresses should now work fine with and devices plugged in
> will be able to use them.
>
> and a point i'd like to add...
>
> the siemens router did not like the ethernet protection sockets on a UPS.
>
> three other routers worked fine - but the siemens 5830 had very flaky
> traffic on it's LAN side if the traffic went through the surge protector.
>
>
>
> the part that i'm not sure about - and before i get flamed will not be
> charging the client for - was when i was trying to set up my own billion
> router to act as the BT router.
>
> it would login over ADSL and get assigned a dynamic IP address for its own
> use.
>
> was it just turning off NAT which would enable internet traffic for the
> static IP addresses to be able to get through to the devices? or is
> something else needed such as static routes or half-bridge mode?

Turning off NAT *and* setting up the static subnet on the LAN side of the
router would do it.

> anyway - thanks for all the help - we got there in the end.

Great :-)

>>
>> was it just turning off NAT which would enable internet traffic for the
>> static IP addresses to be able to get through to the devices? or is
>> something else needed such as static routes or half-bridge mode?
>
> Turning off NAT *and* setting up the static subnet on the LAN side of the
> router would do it.
>

i'd set up the static subnet on the LAN side no probs - i can't quite
believe that i didn't turn off NAT but i was working late after hours as
well as trying bridge/ZIPB mode.

this was because i'd set up an SAR router and a ipcop based PC router to use
VPN before. the only way it would work was if the SAR was set to a sort of
bridge mode called ZIPB.

at least now i find that setting up router to router VPN's is a doddle with
netgear routers - even if the router does not have an ADSL modem built-in
and i use a cheap netgear to act as a router and pass all traffic through
as to a DMZ.

thanks again,

kev

kevin bailey wrote:
> after some recent issues with BT openworld i thought i'd post up a
> couple of pointers for reference.
>
> the service which my client has is network 1000 and they have 5
> static IP addresses.
>
> if the engineer installs a box fresh router then they are supposed
> to log in as startup_user@startup_domain with password ADSL. they
> will not always do this - in our case not once.

Once again you are jumping at fleas, the engineer does not log into
the router at all unless they do the value added, un-official, input
of the customers loging details & password, as for the password of
ADSL pigs might fly & cows may deficate but you don't need to input
any, that is right any, password using that login.

Once again you have been fed the incorrect information.
>
> the router should then be configured atuomatically - and the
> process could take up to 4 hours.

Wrong, there is a 10 minute timeout built into the monitoring
software, after which the engineer has to contact the ADSL helpdesk
who will then RAP (note the spelling) the router remotely & log the
error code which the software produces.

>
> if they just change the login to the customer's login then the
> router will get a dynamic IP as it should but the router will be
> set to run NAT and the static IP traffic will not get through.

Only if they input the name & password before the above is done,
afterwards, it doesn't do diddly squat to the config of the router,
all it does is allow the end user to access their account/s
>
> even if you use the startup login it does not seem to work reliably
> - it did not work at all for a 5861 router and the seimens 5830 was
> not responding properly.

The start up login should only allow access to 1 test site & that is
all, you do not get full access until the endusers login username &
password are input, which you are allowed to do (& the engineers are
not officially allowed to do). In fact the end user is supposed to do
this for security reasons.
>
> in this case you'll have to get hold of the 'ethernet desk' at BT
> openworld.

Wrong again, if the above is happening then you input the end user
name & password. If the router hasn't been RAP'd then you have to
contact the appropiate department.
>
> they should be able to access the router remotely and what they
> need to do is to switch NAT to NO-NAT.

This will happen during the normal process of the router being RAP'd
>
> the static IP addresses should now work fine with and devices
> plugged in will be able to use them.

Here again the static IP's will work once the router is RAP'd
>
> and a point i'd like to add...
>
> the siemens router did not like the ethernet protection sockets on
> a UPS.
>
> three other routers worked fine - but the siemens 5830 had very
> flaky traffic on it's LAN side if the traffic went through the
> surge protector.
>
>
>
> the part that i'm not sure about - and before i get flamed will not
> be charging the client for - was when i was trying to set up my own
> billion router to act as the BT router.
>
> it would login over ADSL and get assigned a dynamic IP address for
> its own use.
>
> was it just turning off NAT which would enable internet traffic for
> the static IP addresses to be able to get through to the devices?
> or is something else needed such as static routes or half-bridge
> mode?

You need to set the router up as a mirror of the BT installed one,
simple as that, you have to allocate the IP's where & if neccesary, so
the failure is yours not the service or the equipment.

What you were apparently suffering from was a incorrect/incomplete RAP
when the router was installed, if you had kept to this fact then the
flames & the arguments would not have taken place. As it is you
muddied the water so much ther other posters just didn't have a clue
where you were coming from. Even now you are spouting bovine efluent
& need to get your facts straight.

As for pointers, you have just posted yet more dis information setting
yourself up as a target, once again.

Even now you are spouting bovine efluent
> & need to get your facts straight.
>

ah well - everything i was told was by the ethernet desk at BT openworld -
if you say it's all wrong then i don't doubt you cos what they said didn't
work anyway.

might be an idea to find out why BT openworld staff told me all this wrong
stuff - doesn't half make things hard.

anyway - client is sorted now and i feel i could set up a router from
scratch now if needed to replve the BT router which clearly no-one at BT
knows how to set up from your reply.

thanks for clarifying the points you did.

cable BB will be installed as a backup and if there are anymore probs with
BT openworld then i presume they will be switching to demon wires-only soon
after.

kev

kráftéé wrote:

> kevin bailey wrote:
>> after some recent issues with BT openworld i thought i'd post up a
>> couple of pointers for reference.
>>
>> the service which my client has is network 1000 and they have 5
>> static IP addresses.
>>
>> if the engineer installs a box fresh router then they are supposed
>> to log in as startup_user@startup_domain with password ADSL. they
>> will not always do this - in our case not once.
>
> Once again you are jumping at fleas, the engineer does not log into
> the router at all unless they do the value added, un-official, input
> of the customers loging details & password, as for the password of
> ADSL pigs might fly & cows may deficate but you don't need to input
> any, that is right any, password using that login.
>
> Once again you have been fed the incorrect information.
>>

i did notice that any login seemed to work - but assumed i was reading it
wrong.

to help us on the NG please could you explain this:

what is the procedure which should be followed if an engineer turns up with
a brand new router to replace a blown/overheated router on BT openworld's
network 1000 service if static IP addresses have been added to the account?

thanks

kevin bailey wrote:
> to help us on the NG please could you explain this:
>
> what is the procedure which should be followed if an engineer turns up with
> a brand new router to replace a blown/overheated router on BT openworld's
> network 1000 service if static IP addresses have been added to the account?

Standard procedure, once the engineer is on-site, is to offer him/her a
tea/coffee and some biscuits.

kevin bailey wrote:
> to help us on the NG please could you explain this:
>
> what is the procedure which should be followed if an engineer turns
> up with a brand new router to replace a blown/overheated router on
> BT openworld's network 1000 service if static IP addresses have
> been added to the account?
>
> thanks

A. They are supposed to confirm that the router is indeed dead, yes
there have been calls claiming dead routers where the fuse in the plug
has blown or indeed unplugged all together..

B, If the router is confirmed dead, they should firstly attach their
laptop to the new router by 2 LAN cables, one a normal lan patch & the
other going from the serial port on their laptop to the management
port on the router

C, They then should run the ADSL Tool Box software (which is installed
on their laptop), & follow the instructions given by this software.
Firstly the software interrogates the router to make sure that the
firmware is the latest version & then displays a config page. Then it
proceeds thru a series of rebooting the router & the attaching off
router to the ADSL lead, eventually ending up with the RAP monitor
page. If the RAP fails at this point (10-15 minutes) the engineer
then contacts the helpdesk giving them the code for the failure & the
helpdesk will then manually configure the router. After this the
router is automatically rebooted, at this stage with the Siemens
routers they may have to push the reset button in order to complete
the job.The program will then display the new configuration in the
router. The program then takes you to the infamous test site (very
boring as it hasn't changed in all the years I've used it), after
which yet another reboot & the router should be ready for use.

It's as simple (& as boring) as that, at no time do the engineers
actually log into the router direct, at no time does the engineer
configure the router. All they can do is monitor to make sure that
the correct IP adresses, Sub net mask, DHCP config & NAT config are
programmed in. & sometimes we're not even given that information in
the job notes anyway.

The only time an engineer may log into the router is to input the
customers details, that's if they believe in doing a 'full' job of
getting the customer working again, officially the engineer is
supposed to get to the end of the programming (in C) & then leave, but
past experience has proved to me that it's a time saver & stops repeat
faults if the engineer does do this last thing as most end users (&
indeed some IT people) haven't a clue how to do this.

I hope that you have taken note that at not time does the engineer
input or change any login details until (possibly) after the router
has been configured, at no time does the engineer have any direct
involvement on the programing of the config into the router. So yes
your information is completely out of the ballpark.

The only other time an engineer may start changing the login details
is to investigate connection problems then they may start using the
bt_test@startup_domain or indeed bt_test_user@ whatever the ISP has
given as their home gateway. Normally these problems are caused by
the enduser not giving (or having in a few cases) the correct login
username & password for the account in question.

Most of the desk staff you get to have no idea of what happens in the
field or how things should be & are done, so please stop being led by
the nose & being made to look as if you know nothing. It's a
possibility the RAP failed, it is also a possibility that the RAP
downloaded the wrong config (I have had to deal with an account with 3
different configs & they wondered why it was always falling over,
managed to get the ISP & enduser to talk to each other but it did take
sometime).

The router is locked down so that all the end user can do is input
login username & password & change the VPN type. There are ways of
breaking in but if you did that you lay the end user open for the
price of a new modem (BT's prices, not the open market price) so it is
just not worth it. With a little bit of knowledge it should be
possible for you to program up a private router, if you wish to hold
one in reserve or play with PAT etc (PAT is still not offficial
offered by BT even though many users make good use of it).

HTH

Colin Forrester wrote:
> kevin bailey wrote:
>> to help us on the NG please could you explain this:
>>
>> what is the procedure which should be followed if an engineer
>> turns up with a brand new router to replace a blown/overheated
>> router on BT openworld's network 1000 service if static IP
>> addresses have been added to the account?
>
> Standard procedure, once the engineer is on-site, is to offer
> him/her a tea/coffee and some biscuits.

Well he's got to do something while the machines are at work, hasn't
he, mind you the biscuits are a bit much, I'm on a diet you know ;-)