A Socratic dialogue with Jeff Lieberman and others concerning the various uses and misuses of Wireless Access Points.

A Socratic dialogue with Jeff Lieberman and others concerning the
various uses and misuses of Wireless Access Points.

Q: I need to boost the signal from a Linksys WRT54G (wireless router)
thru-out the house.
I am Thinking of using antennas and repeaters.

A: I would get an antenna rather than a repeater.

Q: There is nowhere on the WRT54G to attach an antenna.
Or am I just not looking properly.

A1: You remove the right hand "rubber ducky" antenna and install an
alternate antenna.

A2: Which is the right antenna? Looking from the front or the back?

Linksys antennas have a plastic sleeve covering the R-TNC connector.
If you just turn the sleeve, it spins making the antenna appear to be
permanently afixed. Tilt the antenna hinge point down so that the
antenna is pointed in a stright line, rather than the usual right
angle. Slide the plastic connector cover toward the tip of the
antenna. That should expose the R-TNC connector. Unscrew the
antenna.

Q: I need to boost the signal from a WRT54G thru-out the house.
Thinking of antennas and repeaters.

A: I believe you can get firmware (see www.linksysinfo.com for
sveasoft,
others) for that router that enables boosting the power. But what I
did
was add a small homemade parabolic antenna over one of the dipoles
aimed
past the living room to the office on the far side of the house (with
four
old-fashioned wire lath and heavy plaster walls in the way).

Signal strength in the office registered on WET54G bridge went from
the
50's to 81%; and off-axis about 90 degrees (although still fed by the
other dipole) through only one wire lath wall and one sheetrock wall,
I
still get a signal my HP laptop reports as "very good" at 54mbps.

I got the antenna template at www.freeantennas.com (the X12 version).

Print it out on cover stock, spray glue or siicone glue some foil to
the
back, cut it out with scisors and/or an Exacto knife - grade school
level
stuff, really easy, no wiring, no connectors to buy, just slip it over
the
rubber ducky and aim it, roughly.

Q: I need to boost the signal from a WRT54G thru-out the house.
Thinking of antennas and repeaters.

A: I'd first consider using higher gain antennas. For the
WRT54G which uses reverse TNC connectors (the stock antennas
are 2 dBi or so), you could go with the Linksys HGA7T
antenna kit, which are 7 dBi omnis. This could be good
if your coverage area is all in the same plane (e.g. you
have a one storey house to cover.)
http://www.linksys.com/products/prod...id=38&prid=643

If you want to use a repeater, in general, you will need to
get a repeater from the same vendor as supplied your access
point (/wireless router). The standards do not specify
interoperability for repeaters; even Cisco Aironet APs
(repeaters) are not compatible with Cisco Linksys repeaters
(APs.) So, for compatibility with the Linksys WRT54G,
I'd recommend the Linksys WRE54G.

http://www.linksys.com/products/prod...id=38&prid=629

Q: I need to boost the signal from a WRT54G thru-out the house.
Thinking of antennas and repeaters.

A: You might also wanna think about a 2nd access point. I just
cleaned
up an install in a 3 story house. Access point was on the top floor.
Computer room on the basement. No RF made it to the basement. The
owner had built quite an interesting collection of antennas and was
getting nowhere.

I borrowed a 2 pair telephone line (CAT-Zero?) between floors and used
it to connect the access point (Ancient Eumitcom AP I found in the
pile) to the upstairs wireless router (BEFW11S4). The results were
much better than could be done with any amplifier, antenna, or
repeater.

Q: Which repeater do you recommend ?

A: I don't. Try antennas or 2nd access point first.

Rule of thumb:
Count the number of walls and floors that you need to go through.
One wall is usually no problem.
One wall with foil backed insulation in the wall won't work.
Two walls will work but will have holes (areas with no signal).
Three walls is a crap shoot and usually won't work.

Q: what do you mean by borrowed when you said above you borrowed a 2
pair telephone line ?

A: The house was wired for a central telephone system with two cheap
2-pair station wires (not CAT-3) between each room and the basement.
There was no easy way I could run CAT5 between upstairs and the
basement, so I crimped a RJ45 connectors on the ends of the phone
wires and used it to connect the radios. I don't like doing it this
way, but I have done far worse (don't ask).

Q: do you have to use a wire to connect the APs ?

You need some kind of wire to connect two radios that cannot talk to
each other via RF. The correct way is CAT5, but for short distances,
just about anything will work. If the radios could have talked to
each other, then WDS or client mode would have been possible.

Q: could I just use a CAT5 to connect the two APs ?

A: Yes. You *SHOULD* use CAT5 for ethernet. However, that was not
available for what I was doing. Besides, the customer is a friend and
is known to be cheap.


Q: I am with you now. The APs couldnt communicate because of the
walls.
Hence the wire.

A: Correct

Q: I think I know what I should do.
I have bought a pair of cheap 5 db antennas on ebay with TNC
connectors. i will stick one (? ) on the linksys wrt54g.

A: One is sufficient. Point it in the direction you want to cover.
If
you have "holes" (dead spots) in your coverage at the other end of the
building, attaching the 2nd antenna will offer some level of diversity
switching. If one antenna doesn't get the signal, perhaps the other
one will. 5dBi isn't a huge amount of gain so this will help, but
probably not perform a miraclous improvement.


Q: If i cant get a signal where I want it I will buy another access
point
(presumably the wap54g from linksys) and run a cat5 cable between
them.
Anything special i need to do to configure the second AP ?

A: Here's where it gets a bit complicated. In theory, you want an
"access point" and not a "wireless router". The only real difference
here is that the wireless router has a router section and the access
point does not. However, you can use most wireless routers as an
access point by simply ignoring the WAN port. Another WRT54G will
work but is not required.

You will need to deal with the following issues on the 2nd access
point:
1. Don't attach anything to the WAN port. It's not needed.
2. Use the same SSID on both radios.
3. Disable the DHCP server on the 2nd radio.
4. If the two radios can hear each other, use different channels
(channels 1, 6, or 11). If they are well isolated, the same channel
may be used.
5. You probably do NOT need a CAT5 crossover cable as most AP's have
some means of dealing with the ethernet cable polarity. Watch the
lights.
6. If you are using MAC address filtering on the main wireless
router, then you'll need to configure the 2nd access point in exactly
the same manner.
7. The official limit is 100m of CAT5 cable, but I know it will work
to about 900ft of cable. If you're using junk wire, CAT5, etc, about
30m is the limit. Since most routers offer no manual control over the
10/100 speed, you will have problems with >100m runs if it switches to
100baseT. Therefore you may need to install a 10baseT only hub in the
circuit to force the speed to stay at 10baseT HDX.

I'm sure I forgot something, so don't assume this is everything you
need to know.

Hi Sam,
Great post! Thank you for your time putting it together.
I'm actually seeking your permission to use parts of this post in a
cabling FAQ I'm currently developing, with all the proper credits to you
and the OPs. Please contact me directly
http://www.cabling-design.com/contact.shtml for more info or post here.
Thanks!
--
Dmitri Abaimov, RCDD
http://www.cabling-design.com
Cabling Forum, color codes, pinouts and other useful resources for
premises cabling users and pros
http://www.cabling-design.com/homecabling
Residential Cabling Guide
-------------------------------------
(E-Mail Removed) wrote:




> A Socratic dialogue with Jeff Lieberman and others concerning the
> various uses and misuses of Wireless Access Points.

> Q: I need to boost the signal from a Linksys WRT54G (wireless router)
> thru-out the house.
> I am Thinking of using antennas and repeaters.

> A: I would get an antenna rather than a repeater.

> Q: There is nowhere on the WRT54G to attach an antenna.
> Or am I just not looking properly.

> A1: You remove the right hand "rubber ducky" antenna and
> install an
> alternate antenna.

> A2: Which is the right antenna? Looking from the front or the back?

> Linksys antennas have a plastic sleeve covering the R-TNC connector.
> If you just turn the sleeve, it spins making the antenna appear to be
> permanently afixed. Tilt the antenna hinge point down so that the
> antenna is pointed in a stright line, rather than the usual right
> angle. Slide the plastic connector cover toward the tip of the
> antenna. That should expose the R-TNC connector. Unscrew the
> antenna.

> Q: I need to boost the signal from a WRT54G thru-out the house.
> Thinking of antennas and repeaters.

> A: I believe you can get firmware (see www.linksysinfo.com for
> sveasoft,
> others) for that router that enables boosting the power. But what I
> did
> was add a small homemade parabolic antenna over one of the dipoles
> aimed
> past the living room to the office on the far side of the house (with
> four
> old-fashioned wire lath and heavy plaster walls in the way).

> Signal strength in the office registered on WET54G bridge went from
> the
> 50's to 81%; and off-axis about 90 degrees (although still fed by the
> other dipole) through only one wire lath wall and one sheetrock wall,
> I
> still get a signal my HP laptop reports as "very good" at
> 54mbps.

> I got the antenna template at www.freeantennas.com (the X12 version).

> Print it out on cover stock, spray glue or siicone glue some foil to
> the
> back, cut it out with scisors and/or an Exacto knife - grade school
> level
> stuff, really easy, no wiring, no connectors to buy, just slip it over
> the
> rubber ducky and aim it, roughly.

> Q: I need to boost the signal from a WRT54G thru-out the house.
> Thinking of antennas and repeaters.

> A: I'd first consider using higher gain antennas. For the
> WRT54G which uses reverse TNC connectors (the stock antennas
> are 2 dBi or so), you could go with the Linksys HGA7T
> antenna kit, which are 7 dBi omnis. This could be good
> if your coverage area is all in the same plane (e.g. you
> have a one storey house to cover.)
> http://www.linksys.com/products/prod...id=38&prid=643


> If you want to use a repeater, in general, you will need to
> get a repeater from the same vendor as supplied your access
> point (/wireless router). The standards do not specify
> interoperability for repeaters; even Cisco Aironet APs
> (repeaters) are not compatible with Cisco Linksys repeaters
> (APs.) So, for compatibility with the Linksys WRT54G,
> I'd recommend the Linksys WRE54G.

> http://www.linksys.com/products/prod...id=38&prid=629

> Q: I need to boost the signal from a WRT54G thru-out the house.
> Thinking of antennas and repeaters.

> A: You might also wanna think about a 2nd access point. I just
> cleaned
> up an install in a 3 story house. Access point was on the top floor.
> Computer room on the basement. No RF made it to the basement. The
> owner had built quite an interesting collection of antennas and was
> getting nowhere.

> I borrowed a 2 pair telephone line (CAT-Zero?) between floors and used
> it to connect the access point (Ancient Eumitcom AP I found in the
> pile) to the upstairs wireless router (BEFW11S4). The results were
> much better than could be done with any amplifier, antenna, or
> repeater.

> Q: Which repeater do you recommend ?

> A: I don't. Try antennas or 2nd access point first.

> Rule of thumb:
> Count the number of walls and floors that you need to go through.
> One wall is usually no problem.
> One wall with foil backed insulation in the wall won't work.
> Two walls will work but will have holes (areas with no signal).
> Three walls is a crap shoot and usually won't work.

> Q: what do you mean by borrowed when you said above you borrowed a 2
> pair telephone line ?

> A: The house was wired for a central telephone system with two cheap
> 2-pair station wires (not CAT-3) between each room and the basement.
> There was no easy way I could run CAT5 between upstairs and the
> basement, so I crimped a RJ45 connectors on the ends of the phone
> wires and used it to connect the radios. I don't like doing it this
> way, but I have done far worse (don't ask).

> Q: do you have to use a wire to connect the APs ?

> You need some kind of wire to connect two radios that cannot talk to
> each other via RF. The correct way is CAT5, but for short distances,
> just about anything will work. If the radios could have talked to
> each other, then WDS or client mode would have been possible.

> Q: could I just use a CAT5 to connect the two APs ?

> A: Yes. You *SHOULD* use CAT5 for ethernet. However, that was not
> available for what I was doing. Besides, the customer is a friend and
> is known to be cheap.


> Q: I am with you now. The APs couldnt communicate because of the
> walls.
> Hence the wire.

> A: Correct

> Q: I think I know what I should do.
> I have bought a pair of cheap 5 db antennas on ebay with TNC
> connectors. i will stick one (? ) on the linksys wrt54g.

> A: One is sufficient. Point it in the direction you want to cover.
> If
> you have "holes" (dead spots) in your coverage at the other
> end of the
> building, attaching the 2nd antenna will offer some level of diversity
> switching. If one antenna doesn't get the signal, perhaps the other
> one will. 5dBi isn't a huge amount of gain so this will help, but
> probably not perform a miraclous improvement.


> Q: If i cant get a signal where I want it I will buy another access
> point
> (presumably the wap54g from linksys) and run a cat5 cable between
> them.
> Anything special i need to do to configure the second AP ?

> A: Here's where it gets a bit complicated. In theory, you want an
> "access point" and not a "wireless router". The
> only real difference
> here is that the wireless router has a router section and the access
> point does not. However, you can use most wireless routers as an
> access point by simply ignoring the WAN port. Another WRT54G will
> work but is not required.

> You will need to deal with the following issues on the 2nd access
> point:
> 1. Don't attach anything to the WAN port. It's not needed.
> 2. Use the same SSID on both radios.
> 3. Disable the DHCP server on the 2nd radio.
> 4. If the two radios can hear each other, use different channels
> (channels 1, 6, or 11). If they are well isolated, the same channel
> may be used.
> 5. You probably do NOT need a CAT5 crossover cable as most AP's have
> some means of dealing with the ethernet cable polarity. Watch the
> lights.
> 6. If you are using MAC address filtering on the main wireless
> router, then you'll need to configure the 2nd access point in exactly
> the same manner.
> 7. The official limit is 100m of CAT5 cable, but I know it will work
> to about 900ft of cable. If you're using junk wire, CAT5, etc, about
> 30m is the limit. Since most routers offer no manual control over the
> 10/100 speed, you will have problems with >100m runs if it switches
> to
> 100baseT. Therefore you may need to install a 10baseT only hub in the
> circuit to force the speed to stay at 10baseT HDX.

> I'm sure I forgot something, so don't assume this is everything you
> need to know.







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On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 22:49:12 GMT,
info_at_cabling-(E-Mail Removed) (Dmitri(Cabling-Design.com))
wrote:

>Hi Sam,
>Great post! Thank you for your time putting it together.
>I'm actually seeking your permission to use parts of this post in a
>cabling FAQ I'm currently developing, with all the proper credits to you
>and the OPs. Please contact me directly
>http://www.cabling-design.com/contact.shtml for more info or post here.
>Thanks!

please do. all the credit belongs to Jeff and yourself and the other
contributors to the original thread.
please feel free to ammend it any way you want.