SMC router used as access point and switch

I've got an SMC7004VWBR, used as an access point, connected with a
crossover cable to a wired SMC router which is connected to a broadband
modem. To set the wireless parameters, I have to disconnect the unit from
the rest of the lan (to avoid duplicate network addresses), plug a laptop
into the wired switch on the unit, set the parameters, then turn off DHCP.

As soon as I turn off DHCP I can no longer access the wireless router's web
server (whether it's set to the default 192.168.2.1, or changed to
192.168.0.1 to avoid address conflicts).

To make any change to a parameter in the wireless router, I have to reset
the unit to it's factory defaults using the reset switch in the little
hole, and start over from scratch.

If I leave the DHCP server on in the wireless unit, I can access it through
the browser, but I'm stuck with two subnets, 192,168,2,x on the wired
router and 192.168.0.x on the wireless router. When I do that, there are
issues with DNS.

Is there a way to turn off DHCP on the wireless router, and still access
the parameters?

TIA
--
Barry

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 05:40:59 +0000, Barry Jones wrote:

> I've got an SMC7004VWBR, used as an access point, connected with a
> crossover cable to a wired SMC router which is connected to a broadband
> modem. To set the wireless parameters, I have to disconnect the unit from
> the rest of the lan (to avoid duplicate network addresses), plug a laptop
> into the wired switch on the unit, set the parameters, then turn off DHCP.
>
> As soon as I turn off DHCP I can no longer access the wireless router's web
> server (whether it's set to the default 192.168.2.1, or changed to
> 192.168.0.1 to avoid address conflicts).
>
> To make any change to a parameter in the wireless router, I have to reset
> the unit to it's factory defaults using the reset switch in the little
> hole, and start over from scratch.
>
> If I leave the DHCP server on in the wireless unit, I can access it through
> the browser, but I'm stuck with two subnets, 192,168,2,x on the wired
> router and 192.168.0.x on the wireless router. When I do that, there are
> issues with DNS.
>
> Is there a way to turn off DHCP on the wireless router, and still access
> the parameters?
>
> TIA


I have a 2804wbr wireless smc router. I don't see any reason why you
should'nt be able to turn off dhcp and still be able to access the
wireless router.

Barry Jones <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> I've got an SMC7004VWBR, used as an access point, connected with a
> crossover cable to a wired SMC router which is connected to a broadband
> modem. To set the wireless parameters, I have to disconnect the unit from
> the rest of the lan (to avoid duplicate network addresses), plug a laptop
> into the wired switch on the unit, set the parameters, then turn off DHCP.

> As soon as I turn off DHCP I can no longer access the wireless router's web
> server (whether it's set to the default 192.168.2.1, or changed to
> 192.168.0.1 to avoid address conflicts).

I used a 7004VWBR for a short time in the scenario that you describe. I
had an SMC wired router/firewall which provided DHCP, and a crossover cable
to the VWBR. I disabled DHCP on the VWBR. That was the only change I made
to it out of the box. From my wireless laptop, I was able to connect to
the router interface. It was not on the same address range as the wired
router's LAN.

---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:45:57 +0000 (UTC), (E-Mail Removed)
wrote:

> Barry Jones <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> I've got an SMC7004VWBR, used as an access point, connected with a
>> crossover cable to a wired SMC router which is connected to a broadband
>> modem. To set the wireless parameters, I have to disconnect the unit from
>> the rest of the lan (to avoid duplicate network addresses), plug a laptop
>> into the wired switch on the unit, set the parameters, then turn off DHCP.
>
>> As soon as I turn off DHCP I can no longer access the wireless router's web
>> server (whether it's set to the default 192.168.2.1, or changed to
>> 192.168.0.1 to avoid address conflicts).
>
> I used a 7004VWBR for a short time in the scenario that you describe. I
> had an SMC wired router/firewall which provided DHCP, and a crossover cable
> to the VWBR. I disabled DHCP on the VWBR. That was the only change I made
> to it out of the box. From my wireless laptop, I was able to connect to
> the router interface. It was not on the same address range as the wired
> router's LAN.
>

Thanks Clarence. When you say it was not on the same address range as the
wired router, do you mean that it was only different in the last octet?

Out of the box, both of my routers have their web server interfaces at
192.168.2.1. I don't remember the default DHCP ranges for the last octet.

That's why I changed the wireless to 192.168.0.1/255.255.255.0, with DHCP
in the range 192.168.0.1 - 192.168.0.200, and gateway=192.168.0.1. Then I
turned off DHCP and got locked out.

I think I'm missing something here. Unless you see a mistake in the above,
I'll have to do it again tonight, and keep a record of the changes and
tests as I go.

Hmmm . . . could I leave the wireless at x.x.2.x, with a different DHCP
range, and make the gateway x.x.2.254? Dunno.

Cheers

--
Barry

Barry Jones <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Out of the box, both of my routers have their web server interfaces at
> 192.168.2.1. I don't remember the default DHCP ranges for the last octet.

> That's why I changed the wireless to 192.168.0.1/255.255.255.0, with DHCP
> in the range 192.168.0.1 - 192.168.0.200, and gateway=192.168.0.1. Then I
> turned off DHCP and got locked out.

I am inclined to change the third octet to something non-standard. As I
recall, I had to do that because our work network was at the default, which
wouldn't work via VPN if I left the home system at the default.

With the wireless in a different subnet (lets say the pre-existing wired
was 192.168.1.xxx and the wireless is at 192.168.2.xxx), you should be able
to administer the wireless at 192.168.2.1 from either router's LAN side
because the wired router recognizes that the MAC and IP address is local to
it. If the wired router is providing DHCP, and the wireless is not, you
should pick up an address from the wired router regardless of where you are
conected. If you got knocked out when you turned off DHCP in the wireless,
you should have been able to release/renew your DHCP connection, and pick
up an address from the wired router.

Some routers will hang if the WAN is not connected to a network, because
they are waiting to get a DHCP address assigned to the WAN port. The SMC
didn't have that problem, but you could always set the WAN address to some
static value, instead of DHCP.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 22:26:00 +0000 (UTC), (E-Mail Removed)
wrote:

> Barry Jones <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Out of the box, both of my routers have their web server interfaces at
>> 192.168.2.1. I don't remember the default DHCP ranges for the last octet.
>
>> That's why I changed the wireless to 192.168.0.1/255.255.255.0, with DHCP
>> in the range 192.168.0.1 - 192.168.0.200, and gateway=192.168.0.1. Then I
>> turned off DHCP and got locked out.
>
> I am inclined to change the third octet to something non-standard. As I
> recall, I had to do that because our work network was at the default, which
> wouldn't work via VPN if I left the home system at the default.
>
> With the wireless in a different subnet (lets say the pre-existing wired
> was 192.168.1.xxx and the wireless is at 192.168.2.xxx), you should be able
> to administer the wireless at 192.168.2.1 from either router's LAN side
> because the wired router recognizes that the MAC and IP address is local to
> it. If the wired router is providing DHCP, and the wireless is not, you
> should pick up an address from the wired router regardless of where you are
> conected. If you got knocked out when you turned off DHCP in the wireless,
> you should have been able to release/renew your DHCP connection, and pick
> up an address from the wired router.

That's what happened. The wired router's DHCP server gave me an IP in
192.168.2.x, and the wireless unit had a lan IP of 192.168.0.1 I renewed
my address, and I was in a 192.168.2.x range. I could no longer get to
192.168.0.1

I went into the TCP setup for the nic, and gave it a fixed address of
192.168.0.139, and I got in.

Then I set my TCP to use DHCP again, and set the Lan IP address for the
wireless router (as access point) to 192.168.2.101, even though the gateway
was set to 192.168.0.1 Now I can access the web servers from the wired
router, the wireless router (as access point), and another access point,
all at the same time. Ain't life grand!

The other access point (Dlink) offered a clue, because it reported that it
had obtained an IP of 192.168.2.25 I think that's what's missing from the
SMC setup. If you disable DHCP, and there is another DHCP server on the
local net, the SMC should obtain an IP address, and report it to the user
in some way.

I didn't realize that the LAN IP field could be something other than the
gateway address, which is its default. It is in fact its IP address by
which the rest of the lan can access it, and you can set it to anything.

Another lesson learned. Thanks for the help.

Cheers

--
Barry

Barry Jones <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> That's what happened. The wired router's DHCP server gave me an IP in
> 192.168.2.x, and the wireless unit had a lan IP of 192.168.0.1 I renewed
> my address, and I was in a 192.168.2.x range. I could no longer get to
> 192.168.0.1

That shouldn't be true. You connection should go to the wired router,
which should know that it is the default router for all addresses, and
should know that the wireless 192.168.0.1 is available to it directly.

> I didn't realize that the LAN IP field could be something other than the
> gateway address, which is its default. It is in fact its IP address by
> which the rest of the lan can access it, and you can set it to anything.

I don't think that is correct. There is only one LAN address for the SMC
wireless, which is both the gateway address and the http access. Where do
you see two different addresses?

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 04:23:11 +0000 (UTC), (E-Mail Removed)
wrote:

> Barry Jones <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> That's what happened. The wired router's DHCP server gave me an IP in
>> 192.168.2.x, and the wireless unit had a lan IP of 192.168.0.1 I renewed
>> my address, and I was in a 192.168.2.x range. I could no longer get to
>> 192.168.0.1
>
> That shouldn't be true. You connection should go to the wired router,
> which should know that it is the default router for all addresses, and
> should know that the wireless 192.168.0.1 is available to it directly.
>

I can only report what I saw. Zone alarm had both subnets in the trusted
zone, plus I removed it from the Startup folder and rebooted.

>> I didn't realize that the LAN IP field could be something other than the
>> gateway address, which is its default. It is in fact its IP address by
>> which the rest of the lan can access it, and you can set it to anything.
>
> I don't think that is correct. There is only one LAN address for the SMC
> wireless, which is both the gateway address and the http access. Where do
> you see two different addresses?

I put an arbitrary address in the 192.168.2.x range in the setup page
LAN --> IP Address. This may also become the gateway, I don't know. But it
doesn't conflict with the wired router's gateway, and everything is in the
192.168.2.x subnet.

Cheers

--
Barry

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 04:23:11 +0000 (UTC), (E-Mail Removed)
wrote:

> Barry Jones <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> That's what happened. The wired router's DHCP server gave me an IP in
>> 192.168.2.x, and the wireless unit had a lan IP of 192.168.0.1 I renewed
>> my address, and I was in a 192.168.2.x range. I could no longer get to
>> 192.168.0.1
>
> That shouldn't be true. You connection should go to the wired router,
> which should know that it is the default router for all addresses, and
> should know that the wireless 192.168.0.1 is available to it directly.
>

I hate to beat a dead horse, but . . .

Last night I set up a Netgear wireless router (default x.x.0.1) as an
access point for a friend's Belkin wired router (default x.x.2.1). I had
the same issue. I could not get to the web servers of both units until I
changed the Netgear wireless to x.x.2.110. If I changed my laptop's IP
manually to x.x.0.2, I could see the netgear. If I enabled dynamic IP on
the laptop, I got a x.x.2.x IP, and could see the Belkin.

I'd be curious if anyone can do otherwise. This is twice for me, on two
different sets of hardware.

--
Cheers
Barry

Barry Jones <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Last night I set up a Netgear wireless router (default x.x.0.1) as an
> access point for a friend's Belkin wired router (default x.x.2.1). I had
> the same issue. I could not get to the web servers of both units until I
> changed the Netgear wireless to x.x.2.110. If I changed my laptop's IP
> manually to x.x.0.2, I could see the netgear. If I enabled dynamic IP on
> the laptop, I got a x.x.2.x IP, and could see the Belkin.

> I'd be curious if anyone can do otherwise. This is twice for me, on two
> different sets of hardware.

I really didn't think about it until after I didn't have the setup anymore.
It worked for me, but I can't reproduce it, so we must assume that I was
mistaken about some part of my setup.

I had an SMC wired router connected to DSL. I had a wireless router
connected LAN-to-LAN with a crossover cable. All I did to the wireless
was to turn off the DHCP. How did I do that? I obviously connected
somehow. I thought I connected via wireless. Maybe I did, turned off the
DHCP, and then never connected to the admin page again. I moved about
three weeks later. I might not have needed to access it again.

What I thought was happening is that I had an IP address from the wired
router, and that the wired router was acting as the default gateway,
including the route to the foreign address that was the admin port of the
wireless router. I don't know why that couldn't work. I would expect each
of the ports on the wired router to be capable of connecting to different
subnets, on both the LAN and WAN side. Maybe not. Especially if the
"other" network is on the same port that your request came in on.

Since you are on the same physical cable, it might be a netmask issue.
Or maybe you could do a static route.
route add WAP_admin_ip your_ip

What did "ping" say?

One of the vendors, Linksys I think, has a FAQ about this application.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5