Slight OT - network through your ring main

Does anyone use these type of networks that use your twin and earth cabling
for your network?
Are they any good?

diy-newby wrote:
> Does anyone use these type of networks that use your twin and earth cabling
> for your network?
> Are they any good?
>
>
There is a recent thread un UK.D-I-Y newsgroup where the consensus was
that they did indeed work reliably and well. Better than wireless by and
large.

Connection speeds were in the range 30-70Mbps depending on the distances
and cable quality.

No one highlighted truly bad kit, but it seems that some brands were w
little faster than others.

Definitely an option for 'house to shed/office' type transfers where
wireless is unreliable..

diy-newby wrote:
> Does anyone use these type of networks that use your twin and earth
> cabling for your network?
> Are they any good?

Yes, they work "just like it says on the tin". Worked straight from the
box, though I did subsequently use the supplied software to change the
default passwords.

www.solwise.co.uk had the best prices when I recently sorted an extension
for a neighbour, about half the price of many other vendors. I did some
digging at the time, and consensus was that almost all the plugs have the
same internal hardware, and are implementing the reference model from the
chipset makers.
We went for the mid-speed (nominally ~80Mbit) plugs as they would be always
faster than the broadband connection, and more than adequate for occaisional
PC-PC transfers within the home.

I've not tried a mains plug to WiFi transmitter, though that might be useful
for some applications; get the WiFi transmission nearer to where it is
required.


- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Nigel Cliffe wrote:
> diy-newby wrote:
>> Does anyone use these type of networks that use your twin and earth
>> cabling for your network?
>> Are they any good?
>
> Yes, they work "just like it says on the tin". Worked straight from the
> box, though I did subsequently use the supplied software to change the
> default passwords.
>
> www.solwise.co.uk had the best prices when I recently sorted an extension
> for a neighbour, about half the price of many other vendors. I did some
> digging at the time, and consensus was that almost all the plugs have the
> same internal hardware, and are implementing the reference model from the
> chipset makers.

I had suspected such..;-)

> We went for the mid-speed (nominally ~80Mbit) plugs as they would be always
> faster than the broadband connection, and more than adequate for occaisional
> PC-PC transfers within the home.
>

I noticed radically better responses when ditching a 10Mbps integral
router switch for a 100mbps one in my setup here..
but to be fair I do everything over the netweork to a central file
server. It was a LOT faster..

> I've not tried a mains plug to WiFi transmitter, though that might be useful
> for some applications; get the WiFi transmission nearer to where it is
> required.
>

I know of no one who has complete realiability with WiFi stuff.
OTPH I know of no one who has problems with a cabled setup.

These mains dongles look just the ticket frankly. Nice halfway house..

>
> - Nigel
>

"diy-newby" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:fj3tjh$ulo$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Does anyone use these type of networks that use your twin and earth
> cabling for your network?
> Are they any good?
>

Yep, I use the Homeplugs and they are superb..

Less hassle than wireless by a country mile, but don't assume there will be no problems:

1. Mains noise caused by small transformers (typically mobile phone chargers etc) can causes
problems, reducing data rates or sometimes preventing units from connecting. It can be tricky
finding which device is responsible because they are ubiquitous these days. And what happens if its
your router PSU?

2. Additional consumer units can stop them from connecting. You might have one for an outside shed
or office.


I had both the above problems and eventually gave up. Now have cat5 discreetly placed and its 100%
reliable. That said Sol wise are very good - if it doesnt work you can return it within a week (I
think) and they will refund. Best check that.



Hope it works for you.


Adam



The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Nigel Cliffe wrote:
>> diy-newby wrote:
>>> Does anyone use these type of networks that use your twin and earth
>>> cabling for your network?
>>> Are they any good?
>>
>> Yes, they work "just like it says on the tin". Worked straight from
>> the box, though I did subsequently use the supplied software to change
>> the default passwords.
>>
>> www.solwise.co.uk had the best prices when I recently sorted an
>> extension for a neighbour, about half the price of many other
>> vendors. I did some digging at the time, and consensus was that
>> almost all the plugs have the same internal hardware, and are
>> implementing the reference model from the chipset makers.
>
> I had suspected such..;-)
>
>> We went for the mid-speed (nominally ~80Mbit) plugs as they would be
>> always faster than the broadband connection, and more than adequate
>> for occaisional PC-PC transfers within the home.
>>
>
> I noticed radically better responses when ditching a 10Mbps integral
> router switch for a 100mbps one in my setup here..
> but to be fair I do everything over the netweork to a central file
> server. It was a LOT faster..
>
>> I've not tried a mains plug to WiFi transmitter, though that might be
>> useful for some applications; get the WiFi transmission nearer to
>> where it is required.
>>
>
> I know of no one who has complete realiability with WiFi stuff.
> OTPH I know of no one who has problems with a cabled setup.
>
> These mains dongles look just the ticket frankly. Nice halfway house..
>
>>
>> - Nigel
>>

Adam Lipscombe wrote:
> Less hassle than wireless by a country mile, but don't assume there will
> be no problems:
>
> 1. Mains noise caused by small transformers (typically mobile phone
> chargers etc) can causes problems, reducing data rates or sometimes
> preventing units from connecting. It can be tricky finding which device
> is responsible because they are ubiquitous these days. And what happens
> if its your router PSU?
>
This is one case where an RF flilter type adaptor will work and work
well. Most modern mains kit is very rigourously tested to NOT put RF
hash back on the mains. In my house the culprit is house thermostats,
actually. They blast everything out for a secoind. Must replace em.


> 2. Additional consumer units can stop them from connecting. You might
> have one for an outside shed or office.
>
>

Not really. They just knock the signal back, reducing speed. So instead
of 80Mbps, you might get 30 only..

> I had both the above problems and eventually gave up. Now have cat5
> discreetly placed and its 100% reliable. That said Sol wise are very
> good - if it doesnt work you can return it within a week (I think) and
> they will refund. Best check that.
>

I am surprised..you could have fixed the RF noise easily enough with a
suppressor type socket on a dis board.

I agree that a long cable run via a second CU is NOT good, but again,
the trick is to get a 400V capacitor and pretty low value (1nF or so)
and wire across the MCB, so the trip inductance doesn't wreck the
signal. You get similar issues going between different ring circuits on
different breakers. Also different makes of MCB/RCD/RCBO will behave
differently at signal frequencies.

OK I didn't know that - thanks. I suppose the essential point is that HomePlugs are not the
universal panacea that some think they are.



For future reference (I may well need a system at the far end of the house, and running cat5 all the
way would be ugly):

1. Where would one get a "suppressor type socket on a dis board" from? Can you point me please?

2. How does one "get a 400V capacitor and pretty low value (1nF or so) and wire across the MCB"?
Is there some piece of kit one can buy? If so can you point me?


My mileage was this:

My ADSL router is in my office in the garden. Great for all the work kit.
My office has a another Consumer Unit which is fed from the main CU in the house.

When I used 2 80meg HomePlugs between office and house I got very low data rates: 1 - 2 mbs.
Sometimes the signal dropped out completely according to the "Power Packet" monitoring program. The
kids found online gaming impossible.

I then ran cat5 from office to house and plugged into the house downstairs ring main, bypassing both
CU's. The datarate was much better (30 - 50 mbs) but still dropped out completely on occasion.
Online gaming still didn't work.

I then went round the house unplugging everything until it got better. I couldn't establish
definitively what the problem was, but I was short of time and the kids were hassling.
I just ran some cat5 under the carpet into their rooms and they were happy.


Any ideas?



Many thanks - Adam











The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Adam Lipscombe wrote:
>> Less hassle than wireless by a country mile, but don't assume there
>> will be no problems:
>>
>> 1. Mains noise caused by small transformers (typically mobile phone
>> chargers etc) can causes problems, reducing data rates or sometimes
>> preventing units from connecting. It can be tricky finding which
>> device is responsible because they are ubiquitous these days. And what
>> happens if its your router PSU?
>>
> This is one case where an RF flilter type adaptor will work and work
> well. Most modern mains kit is very rigourously tested to NOT put RF
> hash back on the mains. In my house the culprit is house thermostats,
> actually. They blast everything out for a secoind. Must replace em.
>
>
>> 2. Additional consumer units can stop them from connecting. You might
>> have one for an outside shed or office.
>>
>>
>
> Not really. They just knock the signal back, reducing speed. So instead
> of 80Mbps, you might get 30 only..
>
>> I had both the above problems and eventually gave up. Now have cat5
>> discreetly placed and its 100% reliable. That said Sol wise are very
>> good - if it doesnt work you can return it within a week (I think) and
>> they will refund. Best check that.
>>
>
> I am surprised..you could have fixed the RF noise easily enough with a
> suppressor type socket on a dis board.
>
> I agree that a long cable run via a second CU is NOT good, but again,
> the trick is to get a 400V capacitor and pretty low value (1nF or so)
> and wire across the MCB, so the trip inductance doesn't wreck the
> signal. You get similar issues going between different ring circuits on
> different breakers. Also different makes of MCB/RCD/RCBO will behave
> differently at signal frequencies.
>

[snip]

> I then ran cat5 from office to house and plugged into the house downstairs
> ring main, bypassing both CU's. The datarate was much better (30 - 50 mbs)
> but still dropped out completely on occasion. Online gaming still didn't
> work.
>
> I then went round the house unplugging everything until it got better. I
> couldn't establish definitively what the problem was, but I was short of
> time and the kids were hassling.
> I just ran some cat5 under the carpet into their rooms and they were
> happy.
>
>
> Any ideas?

When you next re-decorate put the cat5 cable in properly ...

--
Graham J

Adam Lipscombe wrote:
> OK I didn't know that - thanks. I suppose the essential point is that
> HomePlugs are not the universal panacea that some think they are.
>
>
>
> For future reference (I may well need a system at the far end of the
> house, and running cat5 all the way would be ugly):
>
> 1. Where would one get a "suppressor type socket on a dis board" from?
> Can you point me please?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?...46830&doy=5m12

Thats the sort of bolloxs I had in mind. Probably would completely block
your ethernet over mains from whatever was plugged into it.

Or this

http://www.laptopshop.co.uk/belkin-s...ssory-1-a2.htm

That would sort out offending equipment plugged into the mains.


>
> 2. How does one "get a 400V capacitor and pretty low value (1nF or so)
> and wire across the MCB"?

yes, well, I am sure building regulations would be less than happy about
this one ;-)..I would probably do it..if I had to, but its..not the sort
of thing your average electrician would expect to see or know what to do
with it. Bridging a switch with a capacitor is..slightly dangerous.


A SAFER way would be to use a crossover ethernet cable and two plug
units, one on each side of your consumer unit..

Or look hard at the mains wiring and work out what is actually buggering
the signal. If both units had overall RCD protection that might be the
problem.



> Is there some piece of kit one can buy? If so can you point me?
>
>
> My mileage was this:
>
> My ADSL router is in my office in the garden. Great for all the work kit.
> My office has a another Consumer Unit which is fed from the main CU in
> the house.

Right. It has an RCD? On all?? or just on the 13A stuff?

>
> When I used 2 80meg HomePlugs between office and house I got very low
> data rates: 1 - 2 mbs.
> Sometimes the signal dropped out completely according to the "Power
> Packet" monitoring program. The kids found online gaming impossible.
>

Mmm. Lots of noise and not much signal then.

> I then ran cat5 from office to house and plugged into the house
> downstairs ring main, bypassing both CU's. The datarate was much better
> (30 - 50 mbs) but still dropped out completely on occasion. Online
> gaming still didn't work.

That IS odd. That gaming didn't work at all..sounds like you had burst
noise coming in. I remember reconnecting to find myself dead on so many
Ultima online sessions when I played with a dial up modem. :-)

BUT if you had a conduit for mains, running cat 5 wasn't such a big deal
was it?


>
> I then went round the house unplugging everything until it got better. I
> couldn't establish definitively what the problem was, but I was short of
> time and the kids were hassling.

So it all did finally work, but you were unable to isolate the culprit.

It sounds like in your case the pain of debugging the solution wasn't
worth the hassle and you could run cat5 anyway. Personally I wouldn't
use it if you COULD run cat 5...


> I just ran some cat5 under the carpet into their rooms and they were happy.
>
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
>
> Many thanks - Adam
>
>