Sky ( via Easynet LLU ) port filter query

Further to a few other posts I've got running , I have another query.

In essense, I am looking for the quickest / reliable'est / cheapest comms
supplier that I can also roll in an anytime UK calls package....but
definately still be able to VPN my works laptop with. Gee is that too much
to ask????? Okay if thats not enough I also to roll in my BT line rental
also..

From the site www.samknows.com I have established that only Easynet & Orange
have got LLUs installed on my exchange in Littleborough so I figured
persuing an LLU supplier could be my best option.

-Orange/Wanadoo don't appear to offer landline call packages so that spoils
things for them at the moment
-Sky use Easynet and offer BB & calls deals to existing Sky customers ( of
which I am not...but may consider to be )

Our IT manager told me to try not ask any potential residential ISPs about
VPN because they all twitch and want to classify you as a business user. He
did say to ask them what ports they filtered, so I phoned Easynet and they
told me for Sky they filtered 'incoming only' on 25 , 80 , 8080 & 3186. On
my
work laptop I noticed that the proxy server settings show port 8080, so do
any of these port numbers potentially affect VPN related traffic ?

Back to my previous post about struggling to get VPN , my works set up a
ZyXel router/modem ( can't remember precise model but it was a black plastic
4-port non-wireless ) on a BT adsl line which had an account with Nildram.
We plugged my laptop in and it worked fine on VPN, so I now have to isolate
whether my Virgin.net account is at fault of my PT3812 router. Since people
told me they had successfully VPN'd via NTL then I suspect my 3+ year old
router is possibly due for retirement

Easynet also told my that Sky only supply their own preconfigured Netgear
router/modem. I hear that Netgear are definately the best kit , but I'm
uneasy about this 'pre-configured' business and have just confirmed with Sky
they won't allow any other routers to be connected ..hhhmmm. I also just put
my cards on the table and asked the Sky chap if they allowed VPN, eg Uni
students accessing campus servers etc. He said 'that they don't do it at
present but are planning to in the future'.

So it seems I am getting nowhere closer to my goal and going in ever
decreasing circles. If I have to prioritise what I'm after, it must be :-
- VPN
- combined unlimited UK calls
- over 2mb speed ( based on 4800 sync I assume I could get ~3mb+ speed )
- price

H E L P :-(

ToxOgrady wrote:

> Easynet also told my that Sky only supply their own preconfigured
> Netgear router/modem. I hear that Netgear are definately the best
> kit

Where on earth did you here that, Netgear suffer the same woes as most
of the other budget/home priced routers (note I did not say all),
especially in any heavy usage scenarios.

If you want a rock solid solution for all scenarios then you will have
to up the price & start to look at the semi pro kit (Draytek etc)

On Sat, 6 Jan 2007 14:59:38 -0000, "kráftéé"
<kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>ToxOgrady wrote:
>
>> Easynet also told my that Sky only supply their own preconfigured
>> Netgear router/modem. I hear that Netgear are definately the best
>> kit
>
>Where on earth did you here that, Netgear suffer the same woes as most
>of the other budget/home priced routers (note I did not say all),
>especially in any heavy usage scenarios.
>
>If you want a rock solid solution for all scenarios then you will have
>to up the price & start to look at the semi pro kit (Draytek etc)
>

I'm using a Draytek Vigor 2800 that performs adequately, I'm less than
1km from the exchange. I would suggest that any propective buyers
browse the Draytek forum http://www.draytek.co.uk/forum before making
a decision. There seem to be a number of disgruntled users,
particularly those with long or noisy lines, that have solved their
problems by buying other makes.

> I'm using a Draytek Vigor 2800 that performs adequately, I'm less than
> 1km from the exchange. I would suggest that any propective buyers
> browse the Draytek forum http://www.draytek.co.uk/forum before making
> a decision. There seem to be a number of disgruntled users,
> particularly those with long or noisy lines, that have solved their
> problems by buying other makes.

I'm 1.7 miles away using autoroute as a guide. My attenuation seems to be
around 37-41 dBA

I was eying up a 2800G on ebay as it seemed to have a lot of info displayed
covering VPNs. However its an expensive lemon if it can't cope with noise
levels above.

ToxOgrady wrote:
>> I'm using a Draytek Vigor 2800 that performs adequately, I'm less
>> than 1km from the exchange. I would suggest that any propective
>> buyers browse the Draytek forum http://www.draytek.co.uk/forum
>> before making a decision. There seem to be a number of disgruntled
>> users, particularly those with long or noisy lines, that have solved
>> their problems by buying other makes.
>
> I'm 1.7 miles away using autoroute as a guide. My attenuation seems
> to be around 37-41 dBA
>
> I was eying up a 2800G on ebay as it seemed to have a lot of info
> displayed covering VPNs. However its an expensive lemon if it can't
> cope with noise levels above.

My 2800G runs day in day out like a dream as did the 2600 before it. Avoid
Sky like the plague!

Peter Crosland

"Peter Crosland" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:459fe946$0$8759$(E-Mail Removed)...
> ToxOgrady wrote:
>>> I'm using a Draytek Vigor 2800 that performs adequately, I'm less
>>> than 1km from the exchange. I would suggest that any propective
>>> buyers browse the Draytek forum http://www.draytek.co.uk/forum
>>> before making a decision. There seem to be a number of disgruntled
>>> users, particularly those with long or noisy lines, that have solved
>>> their problems by buying other makes.
>>
>> I'm 1.7 miles away using autoroute as a guide. My attenuation seems
>> to be around 37-41 dBA
>>
>> I was eying up a 2800G on ebay as it seemed to have a lot of info
>> displayed covering VPNs. However its an expensive lemon if it can't
>> cope with noise levels above.
>
> My 2800G runs day in day out like a dream as did the 2600 before it. Avoid
> Sky like the plague!

Why?
It only goes down if you unplug the router.
Mine has been sitting at 15M for 335hours since I unplugged it to fit a four
way so I could plug the xmas tree in.

The only problem they have is CS not being very experienced.
Telling customers they filter ports when they don't for instance.

>>
>> My 2800G runs day in day out like a dream as did the 2600 before it.
>> Avoid Sky like the plague!
>
> Why?
> It only goes down if you unplug the router.
> Mine has been sitting at 15M for 335hours since I unplugged it to fit a
> four way so I could plug the xmas tree in.

Sorry but '15M' means nothing to a novice like me. What do you mean?



>
> The only problem they have is CS not being very experienced.
> Telling customers they filter ports when they don't for instance.


If somebody here can confirm to me they have successfully VPN'd using the
Sky supplied router then I'll go down this route. I sincerely hope the
router doesn't need to have any software/drivers installed on the PCs
connecting to it though...otherwise I'm back to square one as I can't
install anything on my work laptop.

"ToxOgrady" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:2ENnh.78588$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Further to a few other posts I've got running , I have another query.
>
> In essense, I am looking for the quickest / reliable'est / cheapest comms
> supplier that I can also roll in an anytime UK calls package....but
> definately still be able to VPN my works laptop with. Gee is that too much
> to ask????? Okay if thats not enough I also to roll in my BT line rental
> also..
>
> From the site www.samknows.com I have established that only Easynet &
Orange
> have got LLUs installed on my exchange in Littleborough so I figured
> persuing an LLU supplier could be my best option.
>
> -Orange/Wanadoo don't appear to offer landline call packages so that
spoils
> things for them at the moment
> -Sky use Easynet and offer BB & calls deals to existing Sky customers ( of
> which I am not...but may consider to be )
>
> Our IT manager told me to try not ask any potential residential ISPs about
> VPN because they all twitch and want to classify you as a business user.
He
> did say to ask them what ports they filtered, so I phoned Easynet and they
> told me for Sky they filtered 'incoming only' on 25 , 80 , 8080 & 3186. On
> my
> work laptop I noticed that the proxy server settings show port 8080, so do
> any of these port numbers potentially affect VPN related traffic ?

No - because your connections will be "outgoing", not incoming. Sky would
struggle to block 8080 outgoing as it is used for some webservers out
there....

And anyway, any traffic to the "work" network will be encapsulated within
VPN packets, so Easynet cant see them to decide what port numbers you are
using for VPN based traffic.
>
> Back to my previous post about struggling to get VPN , my works set up a
> ZyXel router/modem ( can't remember precise model but it was a black
plastic
> 4-port non-wireless ) on a BT adsl line which had an account with Nildram.
> We plugged my laptop in and it worked fine on VPN, so I now have to
isolate
> whether my Virgin.net account is at fault of my PT3812 router. Since
people
> told me they had successfully VPN'd via NTL then I suspect my 3+ year old
> router is possibly due for retirement

so - take the router to the test ADSL line and check if it works there. If
it works, you can blame Virgin.

Borrow their router, set it up using their config on Virgin and see if the
problem vanishes.

Even all that doesnt work, the tech can probably see what is different and
that may isolate a config issue.

And / or get someone with a working laptop using a different type of VPN to
see if that works on your Virgin service?

3 years is not old for a router - i have been running VPNs for 7 or 8 years
thru several different routers.

FWIW there seem to be some VPNs that work much better than others in terms
of scale, flexibility and immunity to niggle type issues - professional /
commercial dedicated VPN servers seem to be the more flexible, least trouble
(but the most cost).

And when you buy a VPN server, you are buying a glorified PC, some software
and lots of support such as known good configs, app notes on how to set it
up, kit to avoid, assistance etc - and the hardware should be the cheap part
of that
>
> Easynet also told my that Sky only supply their own preconfigured Netgear
> router/modem. I hear that Netgear are definately the best kit , but I'm
> uneasy about this 'pre-configured' business and have just confirmed with
Sky
> they won't allow any other routers to be connected

if you put a 2nd router "behind" the Sky unit, then they cannot tell it is
there - the whole point of the way SOHO routers are set up was initially
that 1 or more PCs sending traffic thru a router didnt change the
requirements from the ISP.

And - yes if the VPN supports "NAT traversal" (which you have to have to
make it work thru a router), then more than 1 NAT (ie 2, with 1 per router)
is just as good.

i have tested this a few times while testing kit etc.

..hhhmmm. I also just put
> my cards on the table and asked the Sky chap if they allowed VPN, eg Uni
> students accessing campus servers etc. He said 'that they don't do it at
> present but are planning to in the future'.

You need to be very clear with an ISP when you ask these Qs exactly what
they say and exactly what Q they are answering.

The standard Q and A from consumer ISPs goes something like:

"do you support VPNs" - no

"does that mean they dont work" - no, but we will not help you set them up /
debug them and will ignore issues to do with VPN performance if you try to
log them.

"do you block VPN traffic" - no - too difficult with all the different
flavours, and no good reason. And anyway, if we did, our own support people
could not use their home connections to log in when we need them.....

Work has around 500 to 1000 home workers on dozens of different ISPs
scattered all over the UK (and many more worldwide). We have customers with
maybe an aggreagate of 50k or more similar users.

I dont know of any that have had problems with an ISP blocking the VPN.

Lots of issues with finger trouble, flakey connections, misconfigured
laptops, routers etc.

And i would want references for existing working VPNs before i decided to
deploy the VPN server equipment and set up the central stuff - because
getting this wrong is the bit that seems to break VPNs....
>
> So it seems I am getting nowhere closer to my goal and going in ever
> decreasing circles. If I have to prioritise what I'm after, it must be :-
> - VPN
> - combined unlimited UK calls
> - over 2mb speed ( based on 4800 sync I assume I could get ~3mb+ speed )
> - price
>
> H E L P :-(

AFAICT you are worrying about the wrong thing - do some swap around between
your router and the good ZyXel.

Note - at this point you know that the VPN will work with a router, and that
your PC config is good enough to talk to the work network

That eliminates most of the possible issues (assuming the test network is a
real home user ISP setup - you did try to just browse the web etc without
the VPN?)

--
Regards

(E-Mail Removed) - replace xyz with ntl

"ToxOgrady" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:eBTnh.42561$(E-Mail Removed)...
> >>
> >> My 2800G runs day in day out like a dream as did the 2600 before it.
> >> Avoid Sky like the plague!
> >
> > Why?
> > It only goes down if you unplug the router.
> > Mine has been sitting at 15M for 335hours since I unplugged it to fit a
> > four way so I could plug the xmas tree in.
>
> Sorry but '15M' means nothing to a novice like me. What do you mean?
>
>
>
> >
> > The only problem they have is CS not being very experienced.
> > Telling customers they filter ports when they don't for instance.
>
>
> If somebody here can confirm to me they have successfully VPN'd using the
> Sky supplied router then I'll go down this route. I sincerely hope the
> router doesn't need to have any software/drivers installed on the PCs
> connecting to it though...otherwise I'm back to square one as I can't
> install anything on my work laptop.

i have used the same Netgear routers with a Cisco VPN before (with no VPN
specific setup, but not with the Sky locked down version)
>
--
Regards

(E-Mail Removed) - replace xyz with ntl

>
> No - because your connections will be "outgoing", not incoming. Sky would
> struggle to block 8080 outgoing as it is used for some webservers out
> there....
> And anyway, any traffic to the "work" network will be encapsulated within
> VPN packets, so Easynet cant see them to decide what port numbers you are
> using for VPN based traffic.
>
> so - take the router to the test ADSL line and check if it works there. If
> it works, you can blame Virgin.
>
> Borrow their router, set it up using their config on Virgin and see if the
> problem vanishes.
>
> Even all that doesnt work, the tech can probably see what is different and
> that may isolate a config issue.
>
> And / or get someone with a working laptop using a different type of VPN
> to
> see if that works on your Virgin service?
>
> 3 years is not old for a router - i have been running VPNs for 7 or 8
> years
> thru several different routers.
>
> FWIW there seem to be some VPNs that work much better than others in terms
> of scale, flexibility and immunity to niggle type issues - professional /
> commercial dedicated VPN servers seem to be the more flexible, least
> trouble
> (but the most cost).
>
> And when you buy a VPN server, you are buying a glorified PC, some
> software
> and lots of support such as known good configs, app notes on how to set it
> up, kit to avoid, assistance etc - and the hardware should be the cheap
> part
> of that
>
> if you put a 2nd router "behind" the Sky unit, then they cannot tell it is
> there - the whole point of the way SOHO routers are set up was initially
> that 1 or more PCs sending traffic thru a router didnt change the
> requirements from the ISP.
>
> And - yes if the VPN supports "NAT traversal" (which you have to have to
> make it work thru a router), then more than 1 NAT (ie 2, with 1 per
> router)
> is just as good.
>
> i have tested this a few times while testing kit etc.

> The standard Q and A from consumer ISPs goes something like:
>
> "do you support VPNs" - no
>
> "does that mean they dont work" - no, but we will not help you set them up
> /
> debug them and will ignore issues to do with VPN performance if you try to
> log them.
>
> "do you block VPN traffic" - no - too difficult with all the different
> flavours, and no good reason. And anyway, if we did, our own support
> people
> could not use their home connections to log in when we need them.....
>
> Work has around 500 to 1000 home workers on dozens of different ISPs
> scattered all over the UK (and many more worldwide). We have customers
> with
> maybe an aggreagate of 50k or more similar users.
>
> I dont know of any that have had problems with an ISP blocking the VPN.
>
> Lots of issues with finger trouble, flakey connections, misconfigured
> laptops, routers etc.
>
> AFAICT you are worrying about the wrong thing - do some swap around
> between
> your router and the good ZyXel.
>
> Note - at this point you know that the VPN will work with a router, and
> that
> your PC config is good enough to talk to the work network
>
> That eliminates most of the possible issues (assuming the test network is
> a
> real home user ISP setup - you did try to just browse the web etc without
> the VPN?)
>

I can browse without the VPN ...but I have to switch off the proxy in the
browser first. I genuinely do think my present problem is the PT3812 router,
but unfortunately I can't just take the works router home, I need to find an
alternative way to isolate the problem.

It would be an ideal situation for me if just one person could come off the
fence and confirm they have sky broadband / with the precongured router and
they definately can VPN. I would just sign up for a full comms package with
them straight away. ( I noticed a chap called dennis@home posts regarding
Sky so hoped maybe he had successfully VPN'd )

BTW I've just spotted this site :
http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/...1230&plugin=vp
BT is reporting that some of the virtual paths at this exchange are not
operating within BT Wholesale's planning guidance, although they are still
operating within the product specification.At busy times, your ADSL
connection may operate at a reduced speed, although not all customers on
your exchange may be affected. You should only contact support if there is
no current ETA date set.
The ETA fix time is: 01 Feb 07

Record last updated: 01 Jan 07

Could this 'virtual paths' problem relate to any of the above ? What does it
mean?