That sinking feeling...

....you get when the DSL light keeps flashing.

What tests can you do other than move your router/modem to the master
socket, and/or try a different one?

A couple of days ago I was faced with this. No warning - working in the
morning, but no connection in the afternoon. LAN connection to the wired
router/modem was OK. I contacted my ISP, who suggested the above as a first
try, while they ran tests on the line. When I tried both their suggestions
with no success, they also suggested removing any extension wiring if
possible (I also tried removing the NTE5 front socket and plugging the modem
into the internal socket, but that didn't work either). I unplugged
everything I could, but still no joy. Their tests suggested the problem was
at my end, but said they'd contact BT for them to run their own tests. They
rang back to confirm that, according to BT, the problem was at my end. They
asked if I was willing to pick up the charge for a BT callout to check the
connections. I said yes (was there any other choice?).

Openreach came this morning. Plugged their test equipment into the master
socket, and confirmed no DSL connection. I should say that I didn't see
what they did all the time, although I am pretty sure that at one stage they
took the NTE5 off completely as they were going to replace it since they
thought it might be faulty. After various failures to connect, they then
disconnected the internal extension wiring (made by BT 28 years ago to
sockets in the dining room and bedroom, but which has never shown any
problem) from the master socket, which itself is only 6 weeks old. Within a
few seconds the DSL connection was made, and the internet light also came
on. When the extension wires were reconnected, there was again no DSL.
They suggested I leave the front plate of the NTE5 off and connect a
wireless modem to the internal socket, and get new linked cordless phones
instead of using the phones we have, so avoiding the extension wiring

When they had gone, out of interest I put back the front socket and plugged
the modem into that. To my surprise the DSL light remained on, and an
internet connection was made! I then put back all the stuff I had
unplugged. The connection remained. So I removed the ADSL modem from the
master socket and put it back where it had been for the last couple of
years - at the end of a bedroom extension next to the computer. When I
connected it to the PC and turned it on, it worked as thought the last
couple of days had never existed!

So all I will get out of this is a large bill from BT, as I understand that
the internal wiring - although put in by BT many years ago - is my
responsibility. I still do not know what was the reason for the connection
problem. What I can't understand is why I could not get a connection when I
plugged my modem into the NTE5 internal socket - I thought that removing the
front plate disconnected any other wiring (including internal extensions).

--
Jeff

"Jeff Layman" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:hiq65n$j2u$(E-Mail Removed)...
> ...you get when the DSL light keeps flashing.
>
> What tests can you do other than move your router/modem to the master socket, and/or try a different one?
>
> A couple of days ago I was faced with this. No warning - working in the morning, but no connection in the afternoon. LAN
> connection to the wired router/modem was OK. I contacted my ISP, who suggested the above as a first try, while they ran tests on
> the line. When I tried both their suggestions with no success, they also suggested removing any extension wiring if possible (I
> also tried removing the NTE5 front socket and plugging the modem into the internal socket, but that didn't work either). I
> unplugged everything I could, but still no joy. Their tests suggested the problem was at my end, but said they'd contact BT for
> them to run their own tests. They rang back to confirm that, according to BT, the problem was at my end. They asked if I was
> willing to pick up the charge for a BT callout to check the connections. I said yes (was there any other choice?).
>
> Openreach came this morning. Plugged their test equipment into the master socket, and confirmed no DSL connection. I should say
> that I didn't see what they did all the time, although I am pretty sure that at one stage they took the NTE5 off completely as
> they were going to replace it since they thought it might be faulty. After various failures to connect, they then disconnected
> the internal extension wiring (made by BT 28 years ago to sockets in the dining room and bedroom, but which has never shown any
> problem) from the master socket, which itself is only 6 weeks old. Within a few seconds the DSL connection was made, and the
> internet light also came on. When the extension wires were reconnected, there was again no DSL. They suggested I leave the front
> plate of the NTE5 off and connect a wireless modem to the internal socket, and get new linked cordless phones instead of using the
> phones we have, so avoiding the extension wiring
>
> When they had gone, out of interest I put back the front socket and plugged the modem into that. To my surprise the DSL light
> remained on, and an internet connection was made! I then put back all the stuff I had unplugged. The connection remained. So I
> removed the ADSL modem from the master socket and put it back where it had been for the last couple of years - at the end of a
> bedroom extension next to the computer. When I connected it to the PC and turned it on, it worked as thought the last couple of
> days had never existed!
>
> So all I will get out of this is a large bill from BT, as I understand that the internal wiring - although put in by BT many years
> ago - is my responsibility. I still do not know what was the reason for the connection problem. What I can't understand is why I
> could not get a connection when I plugged my modem into the NTE5 internal socket - I thought that removing the front plate
> disconnected any other wiring (including internal extensions).
>
> --
> Jeff

Sorry to be hard on you Jeff, but you have been posting here
long enough not to have fallen into this trap.
Was there any reason you couldn't have disconnected all internal
wiring, even if it was connected to the line before the NTE5
(which I think is was case here)

Then, when the OR engineer calls, he is confronted with a NTE5
with the faceplate removed and the incoming line connected to the
A/B screws on the back, and going nowhere else...

....ie. nothing that he can blame you for, justifiably or otherwise!

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Graham. wrote:
> "Jeff Layman" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:hiq65n$j2u$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I thought that removing the front plate
>> disconnected any other wiring (including internal extensions).
>>
>> --
>> Jeff
>
> Sorry to be hard on you Jeff, but you have been posting here
> long enough not to have fallen into this trap.
> Was there any reason you couldn't have disconnected all internal
> wiring, even if it was connected to the line before the NTE5
> (which I think is was case here)
>
> Then, when the OR engineer calls, he is confronted with a NTE5
> with the faceplate removed and the incoming line connected to the
> A/B screws on the back, and going nowhere else...
>
> ...ie. nothing that he can blame you for, justifiably or otherwise!
>

Have to agree there..

I've been on the other side. Nasty little pispqueak jumped up asshole of
a Cnut at Arthur Andersen, screaming down the phone 'YOUR isdn doesnt
work (had put in an ISDN router where he said he wanted it the week before).

Got there,, also BT engineer there. pipsqueak Being Important. took my
router and plugged it into main panel. It worked. BT man looks at me, I
look at BT man. we grin 'Not our problem" and off we go.

stupid Cnut had run some crappy extension through a steel cupboard and
shorted it out when he closed the door, Never apologised, never paid.

I sank half a bottle of fizz when Andersen vanished overnight. Crooks
and Cnuts the lot of em. They got found out. Haha.

Graham. wrote:
> "Jeff Layman" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:hiq65n$j2u$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> ...you get when the DSL light keeps flashing.
>>
>> What tests can you do other than move your router/modem to the master
>> socket, and/or try a different one? A couple of days ago I was faced with
>> this. No warning - working in the
>> morning, but no connection in the afternoon. LAN connection to the
>> wired router/modem was OK. I contacted my ISP, who suggested the above
>> as a first try, while they ran tests on the line. When I tried both
>> their suggestions with no success, they also suggested removing any
>> extension wiring if possible (I also tried removing the NTE5 front
>> socket and plugging the modem into the internal socket, but that didn't
>> work either). I unplugged everything I could, but still no joy. Their
>> tests suggested the problem was at my end, but said they'd contact BT
>> for them to run their own tests. They rang back to confirm that,
>> according to BT, the problem was at my end. They asked if I was willing
>> to pick up the charge for a BT callout to check the connections. I said
>> yes (was there any other choice?). Openreach came this morning.
>> Plugged their test equipment into the
>> master socket, and confirmed no DSL connection. I should say that I
>> didn't see what they did all the time, although I am pretty sure that at
>> one stage they took the NTE5 off completely as they were going to
>> replace it since they thought it might be faulty. After various
>> failures to connect, they then disconnected the internal extension
>> wiring (made by BT 28 years ago to sockets in the dining room and
>> bedroom, but which has never shown any problem) from the master socket,
>> which itself is only 6 weeks old. Within a few seconds the DSL
>> connection was made, and the internet light also came on. When the
>> extension wires were reconnected, there was again no DSL. They suggested
>> I leave the front plate of the NTE5 off and connect a wireless modem to
>> the internal socket, and get new linked cordless phones instead of using
>> the phones we have, so avoiding the extension wiring When they had
>> gone, out of interest I put back the front socket and
>> plugged the modem into that. To my surprise the DSL light remained on,
>> and an internet connection was made! I then put back all the stuff I
>> had unplugged. The connection remained. So I removed the ADSL modem
>> from the master socket and put it back where it had been for the last
>> couple of years - at the end of a bedroom extension next to the
>> computer. When I connected it to the PC and turned it on, it worked as
>> thought the last couple of days had never existed! So all I will get
>> out of this is a large bill from BT, as I understand
>> that the internal wiring - although put in by BT many years ago - is my
>> responsibility. I still do not know what was the reason for the
>> connection problem. What I can't understand is why I could not get a
>> connection when I plugged my modem into the NTE5 internal socket - I
>> thought that removing the front plate disconnected any other wiring
>> (including internal extensions). --
>> Jeff
>
> Sorry to be hard on you Jeff, but you have been posting here
> long enough not to have fallen into this trap.
> Was there any reason you couldn't have disconnected all internal
> wiring, even if it was connected to the line before the NTE5
> (which I think is was case here)

I assumed that although I am allowed to unscrew the front plate and unplug
it, I was not allowed to remove any of the wiring to it. That is my mistake
(and I will pay for it!) - it's quite clear on Wikipedia.

> Then, when the OR engineer calls, he is confronted with a NTE5
> with the faceplate removed and the incoming line connected to the
> A/B screws on the back, and going nowhere else...
>
> ...ie. nothing that he can blame you for, justifiably or otherwise!

My feeling is that the internal extension wiring is a red herring,
especially as all is back exactly as it was and is working well. Several
weeks ago my BT line went down for 9 days (although the broadband connection
continued working without problem). Eventually BT had to dig a long trench
and replace at least 20 metres of cable. One benefit was that I got an NTE5
to replace the LJ2/1A and my broadband speed almost doubled. I wonder if
the NTE5 connections were perhaps a bit dodgy, and somehow over the last few
weeks a wire had become loose enough to affect broadband, but not telephony.
Can't think how, but you never know.

--
Jeff

"Jeff Layman" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:hiqc5h$ter$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Graham. wrote:
>> "Jeff Layman" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:hiq65n$j2u$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> ...you get when the DSL light keeps flashing.
>>>
>>> What tests can you do other than move your router/modem to the master
>>> socket, and/or try a different one? A couple of days ago I was faced with this. No warning - working in the
>>> morning, but no connection in the afternoon. LAN connection to the
>>> wired router/modem was OK. I contacted my ISP, who suggested the above
>>> as a first try, while they ran tests on the line. When I tried both
>>> their suggestions with no success, they also suggested removing any
>>> extension wiring if possible (I also tried removing the NTE5 front
>>> socket and plugging the modem into the internal socket, but that didn't
>>> work either). I unplugged everything I could, but still no joy. Their
>>> tests suggested the problem was at my end, but said they'd contact BT
>>> for them to run their own tests. They rang back to confirm that,
>>> according to BT, the problem was at my end. They asked if I was willing
>>> to pick up the charge for a BT callout to check the connections. I said
>>> yes (was there any other choice?). Openreach came this morning. Plugged their test equipment into the
>>> master socket, and confirmed no DSL connection. I should say that I
>>> didn't see what they did all the time, although I am pretty sure that at
>>> one stage they took the NTE5 off completely as they were going to
>>> replace it since they thought it might be faulty. After various
>>> failures to connect, they then disconnected the internal extension
>>> wiring (made by BT 28 years ago to sockets in the dining room and
>>> bedroom, but which has never shown any problem) from the master socket,
>>> which itself is only 6 weeks old. Within a few seconds the DSL
>>> connection was made, and the internet light also came on. When the
>>> extension wires were reconnected, there was again no DSL. They suggested
>>> I leave the front plate of the NTE5 off and connect a wireless modem to
>>> the internal socket, and get new linked cordless phones instead of using
>>> the phones we have, so avoiding the extension wiring When they had gone, out of interest I put back the front socket and
>>> plugged the modem into that. To my surprise the DSL light remained on,
>>> and an internet connection was made! I then put back all the stuff I
>>> had unplugged. The connection remained. So I removed the ADSL modem
>>> from the master socket and put it back where it had been for the last
>>> couple of years - at the end of a bedroom extension next to the
>>> computer. When I connected it to the PC and turned it on, it worked as
>>> thought the last couple of days had never existed! So all I will get out of this is a large bill from BT, as I understand
>>> that the internal wiring - although put in by BT many years ago - is my
>>> responsibility. I still do not know what was the reason for the
>>> connection problem. What I can't understand is why I could not get a
>>> connection when I plugged my modem into the NTE5 internal socket - I
>>> thought that removing the front plate disconnected any other wiring
>>> (including internal extensions). --
>>> Jeff
>>
>> Sorry to be hard on you Jeff, but you have been posting here
>> long enough not to have fallen into this trap.
>> Was there any reason you couldn't have disconnected all internal
>> wiring, even if it was connected to the line before the NTE5
>> (which I think is was case here)
>
> I assumed that although I am allowed to unscrew the front plate and unplug it, I was not allowed to remove any of the wiring to
> it. That is my mistake (and I will pay for it!) - it's quite clear on Wikipedia.
>
>> Then, when the OR engineer calls, he is confronted with a NTE5
>> with the faceplate removed and the incoming line connected to the
>> A/B screws on the back, and going nowhere else...
>>
>> ...ie. nothing that he can blame you for, justifiably or otherwise!
>
> My feeling is that the internal extension wiring is a red herring, especially as all is back exactly as it was and is working
> well. Several weeks ago my BT line went down for 9 days (although the broadband connection continued working without problem).
> Eventually BT had to dig a long trench and replace at least 20 metres of cable. One benefit was that I got an NTE5 to replace the
> LJ2/1A and my broadband speed almost doubled. I wonder if the NTE5 connections were perhaps a bit dodgy, and somehow over the
> last few weeks a wire had become loose enough to affect broadband, but not telephony. Can't think how, but you never know.

You may well be right about the red herring,
Consider the scenario where someone in the exchange accidently removes your
jumpers from the frame to the DSLAM, instead of the subscriber on an adjacent pair
of terminals.
You lose DSL and an Openreach engineer is called out.
Said engineer calls his mate at the exchange to check from that end, he realises
the mistake, rectifys it and they both conspire to "keep schtum" and blame it on
your internal wiring.

We have no evidence that anything of this sort did occur, but the resident
Openreach engineer in uk.telecom* often reminds us how much pressure
they are under to levy charges on customers when they can.

Hence the need to cover our backs as far as practical.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Kráftéé wrote:
> "Jeff Layman" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>
>> My feeling is that the internal extension wiring is a red herring,
>> especially as all is back exactly as it was and is working well. Several
>> weeks ago my BT line went down for 9 days (although the broadband
>> connection continued working without problem). Eventually BT had to dig
>> a long trench and replace at least 20 metres of cable. One benefit was
>> that I got an NTE5 to replace the LJ2/1A and my broadband speed almost
>> doubled. I wonder if the NTE5 connections were perhaps a bit dodgy, and
>> somehow over the last few weeks a wire had become loose enough to affect
>> broadband, but not telephony. Can't think how, but you never know.
>>
>> --
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>
> It's most probably been replaced with a new style Openreach NTE with the
> bell wire choke as well, which could make a difference.

Now that is interesting. One of the Openreach guys went back to the van to
get a new NTE5 socket. When his mate (who had removed the installed NTE5 to
test the wiring) looked at it he said something like it was one of the
generic non-BT types which could be used in several situations. I don't
know if they fitted the new one or not. Can you tell by just removing the
front plate, or would the whole master socket have to be removed?

--
Jeff

On 16/01/2010 12:09, Jeff Layman wrote:
> Kráftéé wrote:
>> "Jeff Layman"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>
>>> My feeling is that the internal extension wiring is a red herring,
>>> especially as all is back exactly as it was and is working well. Several
>>> weeks ago my BT line went down for 9 days (although the broadband
>>> connection continued working without problem). Eventually BT had to dig
>>> a long trench and replace at least 20 metres of cable. One benefit was
>>> that I got an NTE5 to replace the LJ2/1A and my broadband speed almost
>>> doubled. I wonder if the NTE5 connections were perhaps a bit dodgy, and
>>> somehow over the last few weeks a wire had become loose enough to affect
>>> broadband, but not telephony. Can't think how, but you never know.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It's most probably been replaced with a new style Openreach NTE with the
>> bell wire choke as well, which could make a difference.
>
> Now that is interesting. One of the Openreach guys went back to the van to
> get a new NTE5 socket. When his mate (who had removed the installed NTE5 to
> test the wiring) looked at it he said something like it was one of the
> generic non-BT types which could be used in several situations. I don't
> know if they fitted the new one or not. Can you tell by just removing the
> front plate, or would the whole master socket have to be removed?
>
If it's the old-style NTE, it will probably have the BT logo and the
"piper" embossed on the front, at the top.
If it's a new Openreach one, it will be badged "Openreach".
If it has nothing on the front, who knows what it is!

George

"Kráftéé" <kráftéé@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Graham." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:hiqjdh$tlm$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>>
>> "Jeff Layman" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:hiqc5h$ter$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> Graham. wrote:
>>>> "Jeff Layman" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>> news:hiq65n$j2u$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>> ...you get when the DSL light keeps flashing.
>>>>>
>>>>> What tests can you do other than move your router/modem to the master
>>>>> socket, and/or try a different one? A couple of days ago I was faced with this. No warning - working in the
>>>>> morning, but no connection in the afternoon. LAN connection to the
>>>>> wired router/modem was OK. I contacted my ISP, who suggested the above
>>>>> as a first try, while they ran tests on the line. When I tried both
>>>>> their suggestions with no success, they also suggested removing any
>>>>> extension wiring if possible (I also tried removing the NTE5 front
>>>>> socket and plugging the modem into the internal socket, but that didn't
>>>>> work either). I unplugged everything I could, but still no joy. Their
>>>>> tests suggested the problem was at my end, but said they'd contact BT
>>>>> for them to run their own tests. They rang back to confirm that,
>>>>> according to BT, the problem was at my end. They asked if I was willing
>>>>> to pick up the charge for a BT callout to check the connections. I said
>>>>> yes (was there any other choice?). Openreach came this morning. Plugged their test equipment into the
>>>>> master socket, and confirmed no DSL connection. I should say that I
>>>>> didn't see what they did all the time, although I am pretty sure that at
>>>>> one stage they took the NTE5 off completely as they were going to
>>>>> replace it since they thought it might be faulty. After various
>>>>> failures to connect, they then disconnected the internal extension
>>>>> wiring (made by BT 28 years ago to sockets in the dining room and
>>>>> bedroom, but which has never shown any problem) from the master socket,
>>>>> which itself is only 6 weeks old. Within a few seconds the DSL
>>>>> connection was made, and the internet light also came on. When the
>>>>> extension wires were reconnected, there was again no DSL. They suggested
>>>>> I leave the front plate of the NTE5 off and connect a wireless modem to
>>>>> the internal socket, and get new linked cordless phones instead of using
>>>>> the phones we have, so avoiding the extension wiring When they had gone, out of interest I put back the front socket and
>>>>> plugged the modem into that. To my surprise the DSL light remained on,
>>>>> and an internet connection was made! I then put back all the stuff I
>>>>> had unplugged. The connection remained. So I removed the ADSL modem
>>>>> from the master socket and put it back where it had been for the last
>>>>> couple of years - at the end of a bedroom extension next to the
>>>>> computer. When I connected it to the PC and turned it on, it worked as
>>>>> thought the last couple of days had never existed! So all I will get out of this is a large bill from BT, as I understand
>>>>> that the internal wiring - although put in by BT many years ago - is my
>>>>> responsibility. I still do not know what was the reason for the
>>>>> connection problem. What I can't understand is why I could not get a
>>>>> connection when I plugged my modem into the NTE5 internal socket - I
>>>>> thought that removing the front plate disconnected any other wiring
>>>>> (including internal extensions). --
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> Sorry to be hard on you Jeff, but you have been posting here
>>>> long enough not to have fallen into this trap.
>>>> Was there any reason you couldn't have disconnected all internal
>>>> wiring, even if it was connected to the line before the NTE5
>>>> (which I think is was case here)
>>>
>>> I assumed that although I am allowed to unscrew the front plate and unplug it, I was not allowed to remove any of the wiring to
>>> it. That is my mistake (and I will pay for it!) - it's quite clear on Wikipedia.
>>>
>>>> Then, when the OR engineer calls, he is confronted with a NTE5
>>>> with the faceplate removed and the incoming line connected to the
>>>> A/B screws on the back, and going nowhere else...
>>>>
>>>> ...ie. nothing that he can blame you for, justifiably or otherwise!
>>>
>>> My feeling is that the internal extension wiring is a red herring, especially as all is back exactly as it was and is working
>>> well. Several weeks ago my BT line went down for 9 days (although the broadband connection continued working without problem).
>>> Eventually BT had to dig a long trench and replace at least 20 metres of cable. One benefit was that I got an NTE5 to replace
>>> the LJ2/1A and my broadband speed almost doubled. I wonder if the NTE5 connections were perhaps a bit dodgy, and somehow over
>>> the last few weeks a wire had become loose enough to affect broadband, but not telephony. Can't think how, but you never know.
>>
>> You may well be right about the red herring,
>> Consider the scenario where someone in the exchange accidently removes your
>> jumpers from the frame to the DSLAM, instead of the subscriber on an adjacent pair
>> of terminals.
>> You lose DSL and an Openreach engineer is called out.
>> Said engineer calls his mate at the exchange to check from that end, he realises
>> the mistake, rectifys it and they both conspire to "keep schtum" and blame it on
>> your internal wiring.
>>
>> We have no evidence that anything of this sort did occur, but the resident
>> Openreach engineer in uk.telecom* often reminds us how much pressure
>> they are under to levy charges on customers when they can.
>>
>> Hence the need to cover our backs as far as practical.
>>
>
> If the jumpers were removed from a DSLam then the result would be no telephone or broadband service, so I'm afraid your scenario
> doesn't hold water.

Well I have only been inside a telephone exchange once or twice, so
I'm reluctant to argue with you...

....What I meant was the subs pair was also reconnected direct to the frame
as it would be if they had no DSL.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

In article <hiqc5h$ter$(E-Mail Removed)>, Jeff Layman
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes

>One benefit was that I got an NTE5
>to replace the LJ2/1A and my broadband speed almost doubled. I wonder if
>the NTE5 connections were perhaps a bit dodgy, and somehow over the last few
>weeks a wire had become loose enough to affect broadband, but not telephony.
>Can't think how, but you never know.

Yes, it's possible. ADSL will work (perhaps not very well) over a
single wire. But you cannot make or receive voice calls over a single
wire. Maybe you've had a dodgy connection in the cable for a long time,
but haven't realised it.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=) Bunny says Windows 7 is Vi$ta reloaded.
(")_(") http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png

In article <hisa9c$uaa$(E-Mail Removed)>, Jeff Layman
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes

> I don't
>know if they fitted the new one or not. Can you tell by just removing the
>front plate

You don't even need to do that. It'll have "Openreach" in the top left
hand corner if it's the genuine article. Anything else, and it's the
old-style NTE5.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=) Bunny says Windows 7 is Vi$ta reloaded.
(")_(") http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png