sharing internet across buildings

I just bought a vacation condo in Costa Rica, and will maybe spend 6
weeks a year down there. Inclding friends and friends of friends, we
have about 12 units among us. We're thinking about having one condo
have fast internet access and everyone else connect to him through
wireless. Using a LinkSys WRT54G, and accessing with my Snoy VIAO, I
can go one floor above, below, and across the hall and get a pretty
good signal. Two floors away and it gets iffy. The complex consists
of 8 6-story buildings in a circle each separated by about 100 feet.
All of the condos in question have line-of-sight or are in the same
building as the "master condo".

After a couple days perusal on the web, I've discerned (perhaps
incorrectly):

1) 802.11a has less interference with phones, microwaves, etc so
perhaps should be considered
2) I can spend $1000 for an "access point", which is different
(better?) that a wireless router
3) I can buy antennas to attach to wireless routers to increase the
range to over 500 meters
4) I can attach antennas to the receiving end as well

I'm headed back down to Costa Rica in April, and I hope to bring all
the equipment I need with me to set this up. Any advice you guys can
give me will be greatly appreciated. I think now I'm leaning towards
Netgear 802.11g routers with antennas on both ends, but that's based on
admittedly not enough information.

Regards,

Thomas

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>have about 12 units among us. We're thinking about having one condo
>have fast internet access and everyone else connect to him through
>wireless.

When everyone is there at the same time you'll notice some congestion,
but this ought to be do-able.

>of 8 6-story buildings in a circle each separated by about 100 feet.
>All of the condos in question have line-of-sight or are in the same
>building as the "master condo".

What's the construction of these buildings? Concrete & rebar, wood &
drywall?

>1) 802.11a has less interference with phones, microwaves, etc so
>perhaps should be considered

802.11a doesn't go thru walls at all, it's really meant for office
environments (conference rooms) where you don't want coverage outside
the room.

>2) I can spend $1000 for an "access point", which is different
>(better?) that a wireless router

Or you can spend $50 for an AP. Dunno what you'd get in a $1K AP that
would make it 20X as good as a $50 AP...

>3) I can buy antennas to attach to wireless routers to increase the
>range to over 500 meters

Extra antennas will cost as much as an additional AP, though they can
have some uses.

>I'm headed back down to Costa Rica in April, and I hope to bring all
>the equipment I need with me to set this up. Any advice you guys can
>give me will be greatly appreciated. I think now I'm leaning towards
>Netgear 802.11g routers with antennas on both ends, but that's based on
>admittedly not enough information.

I'd go with a single Linksys BEFSR41 router and a number of Linksys
WAP54G APs in some mix of multiple-APs, repeaters, and clients
depending on the details of the layout, available computers, and other
such, but that's because I have a lot of experience with Linksys
hardware and I'm pretty happy with it.

It kinda depends on what your requirements are, and how technical
(and/or demanding) your users are going to be, and how isolated from
each other they want/need to be. What's the ISP, and what do they
charge monthly for broadband? You might want to have more than one
broadband link, and more than one co-op group...

The preN routers have about 8x the range of a good G router. Belkin and
Linksys are excellent. If range is the issue, be sure to go preN or MIMO.


<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>I just bought a vacation condo in Costa Rica, and will maybe spend 6
> weeks a year down there. Inclding friends and friends of friends, we
> have about 12 units among us. We're thinking about having one condo
> have fast internet access and everyone else connect to him through
> wireless. Using a LinkSys WRT54G, and accessing with my Snoy VIAO, I
> can go one floor above, below, and across the hall and get a pretty
> good signal. Two floors away and it gets iffy. The complex consists
> of 8 6-story buildings in a circle each separated by about 100 feet.
> All of the condos in question have line-of-sight or are in the same
> building as the "master condo".
>
> After a couple days perusal on the web, I've discerned (perhaps
> incorrectly):
>
> 1) 802.11a has less interference with phones, microwaves, etc so
> perhaps should be considered
> 2) I can spend $1000 for an "access point", which is different
> (better?) that a wireless router
> 3) I can buy antennas to attach to wireless routers to increase the
> range to over 500 meters
> 4) I can attach antennas to the receiving end as well
>
> I'm headed back down to Costa Rica in April, and I hope to bring all
> the equipment I need with me to set this up. Any advice you guys can
> give me will be greatly appreciated. I think now I'm leaning towards
> Netgear 802.11g routers with antennas on both ends, but that's based on
> admittedly not enough information.
>
> Regards,
>
> Thomas
>

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

> I'm headed back down to Costa Rica in April, and I hope to bring all
> the equipment I need with me to set this up. Any advice you guys can
> give me will be greatly appreciated. I think now I'm leaning towards
> Netgear 802.11g routers with antennas on both ends, but that's based on
> admittedly not enough information.

I'd advise using the Buffalo High Power Ethernet converters
("http://tinyurl.com/8rwco") on each computer, and a Buffalo high power
router ("http://tinyurl.com/a3cvf") in the condo unit with the internet
access.

Three reasons:

First, it makes a big difference in signal strength because of the
higher power. I can attest to this personally. In my city they just
began offering free wireless, and the access point is on a pole about
100' away. With the a regular 802.11g card or adapter, I got a "very
low" or "low" signal, with the high power card I get a "very good" or
"excellent" signal. So I hooked the high-power Ethernet converter to my
Netgear wireless router (different channels) and I get free wireless for
the whole house, with the machines inside the house only needing the
less expensive non-high-power components.

Second, it has an external antenna jack, just in case you want to use a
better antenna (though be sure to use the shortest antenna cable
possible--the signal strength gain from antennas is often very marginal
because of the losses in the cable from the router or adapter to the
antenna)

Third, because the adapter connects via Ethernet, you can run a long
cable from the computer to the Ethernet converter so you can place it
for best reception (or you can place just the converter for best
reception, and then create a wireless network in the condo using cheaper
non-high power 802.11g components). Similarly, you can run a long
Ethernet cable from the cable modem or DSL modem to the high power
router, so you can position the router for optimal signal. This router
also can be used as an access point, so you could buy several of them if
needed, and connect them all to the router.

I wouldn't advise buying the Buffalo high power CardBus card for
notebooks. Even though it has an antenna jack, there are big losses in
attaching a long antenna cable to the card, and it could be inconvenient
to have to position the notebook for best signal strength.

There are some other vendors of high power equipment

I'm kind of drunk tonight but you can do this easily. I can make you an
access point to aim at the building that will work fine. I will reply to you
later. I have replied on this group before they bash you a lot.

Ed

Signal Seeker



<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>I just bought a vacation condo in Costa Rica, and will maybe spend 6
> weeks a year down there. Inclding friends and friends of friends, we
> have about 12 units among us. We're thinking about having one condo
> have fast internet access and everyone else connect to him through
> wireless. Using a LinkSys WRT54G, and accessing with my Snoy VIAO, I
> can go one floor above, below, and across the hall and get a pretty
> good signal. Two floors away and it gets iffy. The complex consists
> of 8 6-story buildings in a circle each separated by about 100 feet.
> All of the condos in question have line-of-sight or are in the same
> building as the "master condo".
>
> After a couple days perusal on the web, I've discerned (perhaps
> incorrectly):
>
> 1) 802.11a has less interference with phones, microwaves, etc so
> perhaps should be considered
> 2) I can spend $1000 for an "access point", which is different
> (better?) that a wireless router
> 3) I can buy antennas to attach to wireless routers to increase the
> range to over 500 meters
> 4) I can attach antennas to the receiving end as well
>
> I'm headed back down to Costa Rica in April, and I hope to bring all
> the equipment I need with me to set this up. Any advice you guys can
> give me will be greatly appreciated. I think now I'm leaning towards
> Netgear 802.11g routers with antennas on both ends, but that's based on
> admittedly not enough information.
>
> Regards,
>
> Thomas
>

I'm kind of drunk tonight but you can do this easily. I can make you an
access point to aim at the building that will work fine. I will reply to you
later. I have replied on this group before they bash you a lot.

Ed

Signal Seeker



<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>I just bought a vacation condo in Costa Rica, and will maybe spend 6
> weeks a year down there. Inclding friends and friends of friends, we
> have about 12 units among us. We're thinking about having one condo
> have fast internet access and everyone else connect to him through
> wireless. Using a LinkSys WRT54G, and accessing with my Snoy VIAO, I
> can go one floor above, below, and across the hall and get a pretty
> good signal. Two floors away and it gets iffy. The complex consists
> of 8 6-story buildings in a circle each separated by about 100 feet.
> All of the condos in question have line-of-sight or are in the same
> building as the "master condo".
>
> After a couple days perusal on the web, I've discerned (perhaps
> incorrectly):
>
> 1) 802.11a has less interference with phones, microwaves, etc so
> perhaps should be considered
> 2) I can spend $1000 for an "access point", which is different
> (better?) that a wireless router
> 3) I can buy antennas to attach to wireless routers to increase the
> range to over 500 meters
> 4) I can attach antennas to the receiving end as well
>
> I'm headed back down to Costa Rica in April, and I hope to bring all
> the equipment I need with me to set this up. Any advice you guys can
> give me will be greatly appreciated. I think now I'm leaning towards
> Netgear 802.11g routers with antennas on both ends, but that's based on
> admittedly not enough information.
>
> Regards,
>
> Thomas
>

I'm kind of drunk tonight but you can do this easily. I can make you an
access point to aim at the building that will work fine. I will reply to you
later. I have replied on this group before they bash you a lot.

Ed

Signal Seeker



<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>I just bought a vacation condo in Costa Rica, and will maybe spend 6
> weeks a year down there. Inclding friends and friends of friends, we
> have about 12 units among us. We're thinking about having one condo
> have fast internet access and everyone else connect to him through
> wireless. Using a LinkSys WRT54G, and accessing with my Snoy VIAO, I
> can go one floor above, below, and across the hall and get a pretty
> good signal. Two floors away and it gets iffy. The complex consists
> of 8 6-story buildings in a circle each separated by about 100 feet.
> All of the condos in question have line-of-sight or are in the same
> building as the "master condo".
>
> After a couple days perusal on the web, I've discerned (perhaps
> incorrectly):
>
> 1) 802.11a has less interference with phones, microwaves, etc so
> perhaps should be considered
> 2) I can spend $1000 for an "access point", which is different
> (better?) that a wireless router
> 3) I can buy antennas to attach to wireless routers to increase the
> range to over 500 meters
> 4) I can attach antennas to the receiving end as well
>
> I'm headed back down to Costa Rica in April, and I hope to bring all
> the equipment I need with me to set this up. Any advice you guys can
> give me will be greatly appreciated. I think now I'm leaning towards
> Netgear 802.11g routers with antennas on both ends, but that's based on
> admittedly not enough information.
>
> Regards,
>
> Thomas
>

SMS <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>I'd advise using the Buffalo High Power Ethernet converters

Buffalo doesn't bother to specify how much power their various
products belch on their data sheets.
http://www.buffalotech.com/products/highpower.php
Can you send me or post the FCCID numbers so I can check the test
reports?

Let the high power wars begin...

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

I'm will get intouch with you, it can be done easily. I can make you an
access point to aim at the building that will work fine. I will reply to you
later. I have replied on this group before they bash you a lot.

Ed

Signal Seeker



<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>I just bought a vacation condo in Costa Rica, and will maybe spend 6
> weeks a year down there. Inclding friends and friends of friends, we
> have about 12 units among us. We're thinking about having one condo
> have fast internet access and everyone else connect to him through
> wireless. Using a LinkSys WRT54G, and accessing with my Snoy VIAO, I
> can go one floor above, below, and across the hall and get a pretty
> good signal. Two floors away and it gets iffy. The complex consists
> of 8 6-story buildings in a circle each separated by about 100 feet.
> All of the condos in question have line-of-sight or are in the same
> building as the "master condo".
>
> After a couple days perusal on the web, I've discerned (perhaps
> incorrectly):
>
> 1) 802.11a has less interference with phones, microwaves, etc so
> perhaps should be considered
> 2) I can spend $1000 for an "access point", which is different
> (better?) that a wireless router
> 3) I can buy antennas to attach to wireless routers to increase the
> range to over 500 meters
> 4) I can attach antennas to the receiving end as well
>
> I'm headed back down to Costa Rica in April, and I hope to bring all
> the equipment I need with me to set this up. Any advice you guys can
> give me will be greatly appreciated. I think now I'm leaning towards
> Netgear 802.11g routers with antennas on both ends, but that's based on
> admittedly not enough information.
>
> Regards,
>
> Thomas
>

(E-Mail Removed) hath wroth:

>I just bought a vacation condo in Costa Rica, and will maybe spend 6
>weeks a year down there. Inclding friends and friends of friends, we
>have about 12 units among us. We're thinking about having one condo
>have fast internet access and everyone else connect to him through
>wireless. Using a LinkSys WRT54G, and accessing with my Snoy VIAO, I
>can go one floor above, below, and across the hall and get a pretty
>good signal. Two floors away and it gets iffy.

The rule of thumb is 1 wall is no problem. 2 walls is iffy. 3 walls
won't work. If the walls are made of concrete or have aluminium foil
backed insulation inside, nothing will work. In general, it's a bad
idea to try and go through walls. Windows are easy. Glass is quite
transparent to 2.4GHz RF. However, if you have some type of metalized
mylar coating on the windows, RF will not penetrate.

>The complex consists
>of 8 6-story buildings in a circle each separated by about 100 feet.
>All of the condos in question have line-of-sight or are in the same
>building as the "master condo".

Can all the condos in the circle see a single point where a high speed
connection can be located? If so, you have literally an idea
arrangement. Just place a central access point at the center of the
circle and you have uniform coverage of all the condos.

Any trees in the way?
What are the construction materials in the condos? If wood, 2.4Ghz
will go through. If concrete, you'll have to go through the windows.

>After a couple days perusal on the web, I've discerned (perhaps
>incorrectly):
>
>1) 802.11a has less interference with phones, microwaves, etc so
>perhaps should be considered

Equipment is more expensive for 5.7GHz. Interference is less, but
there are a substantial number of outdoor 5.7GHz links that might
cause problems. However, Costa Rica is probably not as congested as
US cities.

>2) I can spend $1000 for an "access point", which is different
>(better?) that a wireless router

A "wireless router" is nothing more than an "access point" with an
ethernet router attached (in the same box). Almost any "wireless
router" can be used as an access point by simply ignoring the router
section. Instructions have been posted many times.

You'll probably need a wireless router because your broadband
connection will probably be limited to a single IP address. In order
to share the connection with multiple computers, you'll need NAT
(network address translation) which requires a router. On the other
foot, if your broadband ISP supplies multiple IP addresses, then you
can use an access point (no router) and let each user have a routeable
IP address.

>3) I can buy antennas to attach to wireless routers to increase the
>range to over 500 meters

Antennas are not a free lunch. Since you're apparently using a single
wireless access point and the condos are arranged in a circle, an
omnidirectional antenna is appropriate. The problem is that as the
antenna gain on the omni antenna increases, the vertical radiation
angle decreases. An 8dBi omni (at 2.4Ghz) has a vertical radiation
angle of about 15 degrees. A 12dBi omni is about 7 degrees (or less).
If you have ANY vertical elevation differences between the central
antenna and the client radios, you'll have a problem. Is the terrain
flat?

Let's do the trigonometry. 100ft range and a 3.5degree vertical
elevation is:
vert = 100ft * tan(3.5deg) (for an 12dBi omni)
vert = 6.1ft
or
vert = 100ft * tan(7.5deg) (for an 8dBi omni)
vert = 13.2ft
If you have a +/- 6ft or 13ft vertical difference between users and
the horizontal elevation of the antenna, the signal will suffer
severely. It's even more narrow at 5.6GHz. This is one reason why
many such systems use panel antennas instead of omni antennas.

I suggest you run your calculations and initial testing with a decent
8dBi 2.4GHz omnidirectional antenna to cover the easy users, and than
add a 2nd access point and a more directional antenna to cover the
holes and hardship cases (the ones that wanna go through walls).

>4) I can attach antennas to the receiving end as well

Huh? All antennas are both transmit and receive. I think you mean
attaching one at the client radio (CPE or Customer Premisis
Equipment). An external antenna at the client end will be a huge help
in getting enough signal for a reliable connection. Some type of
panel antenna placed in the window would be ideal. Simple reflectors
such as:
http://www.FreeAntennas.com
are a big help. There are also client radios that have integrated
panel and patch antennas (typically with about 8dBi gain).

>I'm headed back down to Costa Rica in April, and I hope to bring all
>the equipment I need with me to set this up. Any advice you guys can
>give me will be greatly appreciated. I think now I'm leaning towards
>Netgear 802.11g routers with antennas on both ends, but that's based on
>admittedly not enough information.

Well, for the system you describe, almost any wireless router and any
client radios will work. 100ft range is well within the capabilities
of commodity wireless hardware. I would suggest you do something a
bit different. Stay on 2.4GHz (because it's cheaper). Buy a mixture
of wireless 802.11g hardware and antennas. Two wireless routers,
multiple brands and models of clients, a few different antennas,
reflectors or even home made antennas. Drag it all to Costa Rica in
April and see how it plays. Some things will work well, others may
not. Lots depend on the location, topology, construction, and
environment. When you have a combination that works, order some more
and have it shipped to Costa Rica. I'm not too sure this is such a
great idea but at 2AM, it's the best I can do.

Also, I wouldn't expect too much in the way of hackers, Netstumblers,
and wireless DoS attackes in Costa Rica. Therefore, a fancy intrusion
detection and security system isn't really necessary. However, to
keep the other tourists with laptops out, you should be sure that your
system supports WPA encryption. If you plan to make this a hotspot
system similar to a hotel wireless system, you may need a specialized
wireless router with a built in authorization and authentication
system. In any case, think about how you would handle abusers (i.e.
file sharing, BitTorrent, bandwidth hogs, hackers) and control access.

Good Luck.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558