Server & Client Setup

I've read the first 20 screens of posts, and haven't
found this question, and apologize upfront if it seems
awfully basic, but I'm at my wits' end. I'm the most
computer literate person in a small (4 person) office, so
I got handed the task of setting up our new network. The
HP salesperson convinced my boss that if we bought a
ProLiant server with Windows Server 2003 installed, the
rest of the set-up would be a snap -- simply a case of
following the wizards. I've got the network functioning,
but it appears to me that it's really just a glorified
peer-to-peer. We have two PCs with XP Pro, and 2 with XP
Home, so we opted for a Workgroup vs. Domain/Active
Directory setup. I have one basic concern -- the only
logon at PC startup is Windows, and in order to logon to
the network, users have to navigate to the network drive
(which appears to be mapped correctly on each PC), and
THEN are presented with a logon window. In prior jobs,
I've worked on Win2000 networks, and was used to getting
a PC/Windows logon, followed immediately by a network
logon. Have I done something wrong? Is there a Windows
Server 2003 client somewhere that the directions failed
to mention? Or will this only be resolved by upgrading
all PCs to XP Pro and then setting up Active Directory?
I've read every article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base
that seems remotely related, and haven't found any
answers there. Thanks so much for any help you can
provide.

Frustrated and getting behind in my "real" work while I
deal with networking......Lisa

Dear Lisa,

To get to the single logon/Shared Resource scenario you would most likely
have to use an Active directory. You are correct in that you now have a
peer-to-peer network uutilizing the HP "Server" as a central location for
your shared directories.

While operating in a peer-to-peer network sharing a resource requires that
each PC have each users login name in it's own database and resource rights
assinged to that user.

It sounds like you have centralized the resources around the HP but you
still have to add each user to the HP and then assign the resource to that
login.

The next step would be to centralize the access rights and security. This
requires that you utilize the Active Directory. Then the user would have to
logon once to gain access to the server resource. (i.e. printers, shared
folders, etc.) and you could then assing AD Groups to have access to the
Local PC resources by allowing the AD group local PC resource access.

You where correct again in stating that before all your users could take
advantage of the Active Directory scenerio, the XP-Home users would have to
upgrade to XP-Pro.

Hope this helps,
Best Regards
Justin.



"Lisa" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:1df801c42728$4c554bd0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I've read the first 20 screens of posts, and haven't
> found this question, and apologize upfront if it seems
> awfully basic, but I'm at my wits' end. I'm the most
> computer literate person in a small (4 person) office, so
> I got handed the task of setting up our new network. The
> HP salesperson convinced my boss that if we bought a
> ProLiant server with Windows Server 2003 installed, the
> rest of the set-up would be a snap -- simply a case of
> following the wizards. I've got the network functioning,
> but it appears to me that it's really just a glorified
> peer-to-peer. We have two PCs with XP Pro, and 2 with XP
> Home, so we opted for a Workgroup vs. Domain/Active
> Directory setup. I have one basic concern -- the only
> logon at PC startup is Windows, and in order to logon to
> the network, users have to navigate to the network drive
> (which appears to be mapped correctly on each PC), and
> THEN are presented with a logon window. In prior jobs,
> I've worked on Win2000 networks, and was used to getting
> a PC/Windows logon, followed immediately by a network
> logon. Have I done something wrong? Is there a Windows
> Server 2003 client somewhere that the directions failed
> to mention? Or will this only be resolved by upgrading
> all PCs to XP Pro and then setting up Active Directory?
> I've read every article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base
> that seems remotely related, and haven't found any
> answers there. Thanks so much for any help you can
> provide.
>
> Frustrated and getting behind in my "real" work while I
> deal with networking......Lisa
>

"Lisa" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:1df801c42728$4c554bd0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> HP salesperson convinced my boss that if we bought a
> ProLiant server with Windows Server 2003 installed, the
> rest of the set-up would be a snap -- simply a case of

Did he say the sky would be clearer, the sun would be brighter, and the
birds would be chirpier :-)

> peer-to-peer. We have two PCs with XP Pro, and 2 with XP
> Home, so we opted for a Workgroup vs. Domain/Active
> Directory setup. I have one basic concern -- the only
> logon at PC startup is Windows, and in order to logon to
> the network, users have to navigate to the network drive

I would recommend replacing the XP Home with XP Pro and promote the server
(dcpromo.exe) to a Domain Controller. You don't have to know much about AD
to get it working. Make sure DNS is installed on the Server (Add-Remove
Programs - Windows Componenets). You don't have to configure it, just make
sure it is there. From a command prompt run DCPromo.exe to make the Server
a Domain Controller. Most of the questions it would ask you would be
"no-brainers". The only confusing one I can think of is the one about the
Forest. Just remember that you are creating a whole new Forest and you will
be fine. With such a small simple network there really isn't much to deal
with.

Once you are running in a Domain Environment with centralized user accounts
and authentication,....well the birds just might actually be chirpier.

--

Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
www.wandtv.com

Thank you SO much for the clear and concise help! Either
you've spoken to that same salesperson (surely he's the
ONLY one to make such rosy claims) or you're
clairvoyant. :-)

Two final questions, if I can take advantage of your good
graces just a bit further: Is XP the only networking
tool needed for the workstations? I previously worked in
an office on a Novell server, and I believe we had
a "client" software. Was that only because we had
Windows as the operating system on the PCs and Novell as
our networking system? I just want to understand this
for general education purposes.

And secondly, if the boss doesn't want to pop the $200 to
upgrade the last PC from XP Home to Pro, or maybe wants
to wait a while for some reason known only to bosses, can
I go ahead with the AD/domain setup for the other users,
and keep the one PC on the workgroup, and share one of
the drives to both the domain and the workgroup? Then
presumably I could change settings on the last PC when we
update it with XP Pro.

Thanks so much, truly.

Lisa


>-----Original Message-----
>"Lisa" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
message
>news:1df801c42728$4c554bd0$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> HP salesperson convinced my boss that if we bought a
>> ProLiant server with Windows Server 2003 installed, the
>> rest of the set-up would be a snap -- simply a case of
>
>Did he say the sky would be clearer, the sun would be
brighter, and the
>birds would be chirpier :-)
>
>> peer-to-peer. We have two PCs with XP Pro, and 2 with
XP
>> Home, so we opted for a Workgroup vs. Domain/Active
>> Directory setup. I have one basic concern -- the only
>> logon at PC startup is Windows, and in order to logon
to
>> the network, users have to navigate to the network
drive
>
>I would recommend replacing the XP Home with XP Pro and
promote the server
>(dcpromo.exe) to a Domain Controller. You don't have to
know much about AD
>to get it working. Make sure DNS is installed on the
Server (Add-Remove
>Programs - Windows Componenets). You don't have to
configure it, just make
>sure it is there. From a command prompt run DCPromo.exe
to make the Server
>a Domain Controller. Most of the questions it would ask
you would be
>"no-brainers". The only confusing one I can think of is
the one about the
>Forest. Just remember that you are creating a whole new
Forest and you will
>be fine. With such a small simple network there really
isn't much to deal
>with.
>
>Once you are running in a Domain Environment with
centralized user accounts
>and authentication,....well the birds just might
actually be chirpier.
>
>--
>
>Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
>www.wandtv.com
>
>
>.
>

Thanks, Justin. I'll take all the help I can get!

>-----Original Message-----
>Dear Lisa,
>
>To get to the single logon/Shared Resource scenario you
would most likely
>have to use an Active directory. You are correct in that
you now have a
>peer-to-peer network uutilizing the HP "Server" as a
central location for
>your shared directories.
>
>While operating in a peer-to-peer network sharing a
resource requires that
>each PC have each users login name in it's own database
and resource rights
>assinged to that user.
>
>It sounds like you have centralized the resources around
the HP but you
>still have to add each user to the HP and then assign
the resource to that
>login.
>
>The next step would be to centralize the access rights
and security. This
>requires that you utilize the Active Directory. Then the
user would have to
>logon once to gain access to the server resource. (i.e.
printers, shared
>folders, etc.) and you could then assing AD Groups to
have access to the
>Local PC resources by allowing the AD group local PC
resource access.
>
>You where correct again in stating that before all your
users could take
>advantage of the Active Directory scenerio, the XP-Home
users would have to
>upgrade to XP-Pro.
>
>Hope this helps,
>Best Regards
>Justin.
>
>
>
>"Lisa" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
message
>news:1df801c42728$4c554bd0$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> I've read the first 20 screens of posts, and haven't
>> found this question, and apologize upfront if it seems
>> awfully basic, but I'm at my wits' end. I'm the most
>> computer literate person in a small (4 person) office,
so
>> I got handed the task of setting up our new network.
The
>> HP salesperson convinced my boss that if we bought a
>> ProLiant server with Windows Server 2003 installed, the
>> rest of the set-up would be a snap -- simply a case of
>> following the wizards. I've got the network
functioning,
>> but it appears to me that it's really just a glorified
>> peer-to-peer. We have two PCs with XP Pro, and 2 with
XP
>> Home, so we opted for a Workgroup vs. Domain/Active
>> Directory setup. I have one basic concern -- the only
>> logon at PC startup is Windows, and in order to logon
to
>> the network, users have to navigate to the network
drive
>> (which appears to be mapped correctly on each PC), and
>> THEN are presented with a logon window. In prior jobs,
>> I've worked on Win2000 networks, and was used to
getting
>> a PC/Windows logon, followed immediately by a network
>> logon. Have I done something wrong? Is there a
Windows
>> Server 2003 client somewhere that the directions failed
>> to mention? Or will this only be resolved by upgrading
>> all PCs to XP Pro and then setting up Active Directory?
>> I've read every article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base
>> that seems remotely related, and haven't found any
>> answers there. Thanks so much for any help you can
>> provide.
>>
>> Frustrated and getting behind in my "real" work while I
>> deal with networking......Lisa
>>
>
>
>.
>

In a peer to peer setup, you need to synchronize the logon of the client
pc and the same user on the server..
for example, the xp home machine has a user named tom and a password of
huckleberry (even if the machine starts up and does not ask for a user
name and password, ther is still one there... look in control panel - users
for that info)..
so now add a user named tom to the server (a local user) with a password
of huckleberry.
The client user will now have access to the server without another logon
(access to whatever you gave him of course)

I do agree however that a domain offers lots of added benefits, not least of
which is a log on script to map drives)
You can setup the AD (youll have to change things at the client too and tell
it to log onto the domain instead of the local pc)(control panel- system)
the xp pro systems can log onto the domain, the xp home system log into a
workgroup (same name as domain i suggest).. if the xp home users are present
on the server as stated at the top, then they will be able to access the
files., they just will not participate in the domain (no logon script)


"Lisa" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:28de01c42818$7e78f940$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Thank you SO much for the clear and concise help! Either
> you've spoken to that same salesperson (surely he's the
> ONLY one to make such rosy claims) or you're
> clairvoyant. :-)
>
> Two final questions, if I can take advantage of your good
> graces just a bit further: Is XP the only networking
> tool needed for the workstations? I previously worked in
> an office on a Novell server, and I believe we had
> a "client" software. Was that only because we had
> Windows as the operating system on the PCs and Novell as
> our networking system? I just want to understand this
> for general education purposes.
>
> And secondly, if the boss doesn't want to pop the $200 to
> upgrade the last PC from XP Home to Pro, or maybe wants
> to wait a while for some reason known only to bosses, can
> I go ahead with the AD/domain setup for the other users,
> and keep the one PC on the workgroup, and share one of
> the drives to both the domain and the workgroup? Then
> presumably I could change settings on the last PC when we
> update it with XP Pro.
>
> Thanks so much, truly.
>
> Lisa
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >"Lisa" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> message
> >news:1df801c42728$4c554bd0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> HP salesperson convinced my boss that if we bought a
> >> ProLiant server with Windows Server 2003 installed, the
> >> rest of the set-up would be a snap -- simply a case of
> >
> >Did he say the sky would be clearer, the sun would be
> brighter, and the
> >birds would be chirpier :-)
> >
> >> peer-to-peer. We have two PCs with XP Pro, and 2 with
> XP
> >> Home, so we opted for a Workgroup vs. Domain/Active
> >> Directory setup. I have one basic concern -- the only
> >> logon at PC startup is Windows, and in order to logon
> to
> >> the network, users have to navigate to the network
> drive
> >
> >I would recommend replacing the XP Home with XP Pro and
> promote the server
> >(dcpromo.exe) to a Domain Controller. You don't have to
> know much about AD
> >to get it working. Make sure DNS is installed on the
> Server (Add-Remove
> >Programs - Windows Componenets). You don't have to
> configure it, just make
> >sure it is there. From a command prompt run DCPromo.exe
> to make the Server
> >a Domain Controller. Most of the questions it would ask
> you would be
> >"no-brainers". The only confusing one I can think of is
> the one about the
> >Forest. Just remember that you are creating a whole new
> Forest and you will
> >be fine. With such a small simple network there really
> isn't much to deal
> >with.
> >
> >Once you are running in a Domain Environment with
> centralized user accounts
> >and authentication,....well the birds just might
> actually be chirpier.
> >
> >--
> >
> >Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
> >www.wandtv.com
> >
> >
> >.
> >

"Lisa" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:28de01c42818$7e78f940$(E-Mail Removed)...
> tool needed for the workstations? I previously worked in
> an office on a Novell server, and I believe we had
> a "client" software. Was that only because we had
> Windows as the operating system on the PCs and Novell as
> our networking system? I just want to understand this

There is no "client" software with a Windows based system. The Windows OS
takes care of everything itself. Except for XP Home and Win9x (and older),
you need to make the machines members of the Domain after the Server has
been made a domain controller.

Win98 does log into the Domain but is not actually a member (don't worry
about what that means). XP Home can only be in a Workgroup so make the
Workgroup Name the same name as the Domain. Walter gave some good advice on
this and I don't want to rehash what he already wrote.

When you give your Domain a name during the "promotion" of the server there
are some things to consider. Active Directory domains are DNS based, yet
they keep backward compatibility to a point with the old Netbois way of
doing things, so it effectively has two versions of the name. For example:

mycompany.loc (DNS version, tyipically shown in lower case letters, two
words, with "dots")
MYCOMPANY (Netbios version, often shown in upper case letters, one
word, no "dots")

"Later in life" when things ask for the domain name, sometimes you use one,
sometimes you use the other, you'll have to deal with that on a case-by-case
basis. Myself, I usually use the shorter Netbios version unless I know the
other is required.

I usually recommend *not* using the same Domain name on the private side of
your network in Active Directory as what your company may be known by
"publicly". For example, publicly you might be known as "mycompany.com", so
in the Active Directory domain I would use something else like
"mycompany.loc" ("loc" for local, ...creative,.. huh?). Some people preach
to make them the same,..I do not. It creates some DNS nightmares,
particularly if proxys and firewalls get involved and is too indepth to get
involved with in this message.

> And secondly, if the boss doesn't want to pop the $200 to
> upgrade the last PC from XP Home to Pro, or maybe wants
> to wait a while for some reason known only to bosses, can

I usually endorse "Public Boss Beatings", but if you can't do that, then
just do the best you can with the situation until you can finally eliminate
the XP Home machines. What Walter suggested should handle that fine.


--

Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
www.wandtv.com

Thanks so much! I've been sidetracked for the past few
weeks with my "real" job, so am just now getting back to
the networking issue. I really appreciate the help, and
didn't want you to think I was a terrible ingrate with no
respect for your time.
L.
>-----Original Message-----
>In a peer to peer setup, you need to synchronize the
logon of the client
>pc and the same user on the server..
>for example, the xp home machine has a user named tom
and a password of
>huckleberry (even if the machine starts up and does
not ask for a user
>name and password, ther is still one there... look in
control panel - users
>for that info)..
>so now add a user named tom to the server (a local
user) with a password
>of huckleberry.
>The client user will now have access to the server
without another logon
>(access to whatever you gave him of course)
>
>I do agree however that a domain offers lots of added
benefits, not least of
>which is a log on script to map drives)
>You can setup the AD (youll have to change things at the
client too and tell
>it to log onto the domain instead of the local pc)
(control panel- system)
>the xp pro systems can log onto the domain, the xp home
system log into a
>workgroup (same name as domain i suggest).. if the xp
home users are present
>on the server as stated at the top, then they will be
able to access the
>files., they just will not participate in the domain (no
logon script)
>
>
>"Lisa" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
message
>news:28de01c42818$7e78f940$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Thank you SO much for the clear and concise help!
Either
>> you've spoken to that same salesperson (surely he's the
>> ONLY one to make such rosy claims) or you're
>> clairvoyant. :-)
>>
>> Two final questions, if I can take advantage of your
good
>> graces just a bit further: Is XP the only networking
>> tool needed for the workstations? I previously worked
in
>> an office on a Novell server, and I believe we had
>> a "client" software. Was that only because we had
>> Windows as the operating system on the PCs and Novell
as
>> our networking system? I just want to understand this
>> for general education purposes.
>>
>> And secondly, if the boss doesn't want to pop the $200
to
>> upgrade the last PC from XP Home to Pro, or maybe wants
>> to wait a while for some reason known only to bosses,
can
>> I go ahead with the AD/domain setup for the other
users,
>> and keep the one PC on the workgroup, and share one of
>> the drives to both the domain and the workgroup? Then
>> presumably I could change settings on the last PC when
we
>> update it with XP Pro.
>>
>> Thanks so much, truly.
>>
>> Lisa
>>
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >"Lisa" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>> message
>> >news:1df801c42728$4c554bd0$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> >> HP salesperson convinced my boss that if we bought a
>> >> ProLiant server with Windows Server 2003 installed,
the
>> >> rest of the set-up would be a snap -- simply a case
of
>> >
>> >Did he say the sky would be clearer, the sun would be
>> brighter, and the
>> >birds would be chirpier :-)
>> >
>> >> peer-to-peer. We have two PCs with XP Pro, and 2
with
>> XP
>> >> Home, so we opted for a Workgroup vs. Domain/Active
>> >> Directory setup. I have one basic concern -- the
only
>> >> logon at PC startup is Windows, and in order to
logon
>> to
>> >> the network, users have to navigate to the network
>> drive
>> >
>> >I would recommend replacing the XP Home with XP Pro
and
>> promote the server
>> >(dcpromo.exe) to a Domain Controller. You don't have
to
>> know much about AD
>> >to get it working. Make sure DNS is installed on the
>> Server (Add-Remove
>> >Programs - Windows Componenets). You don't have to
>> configure it, just make
>> >sure it is there. From a command prompt run
DCPromo.exe
>> to make the Server
>> >a Domain Controller. Most of the questions it would
ask
>> you would be
>> >"no-brainers". The only confusing one I can think of
is
>> the one about the
>> >Forest. Just remember that you are creating a whole
new
>> Forest and you will
>> >be fine. With such a small simple network there really
>> isn't much to deal
>> >with.
>> >
>> >Once you are running in a Domain Environment with
>> centralized user accounts
>> >and authentication,....well the birds just might
>> actually be chirpier.
>> >
>> >--
>> >
>> >Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
>> >www.wandtv.com
>> >
>> >
>> >.
>> >
>
>
>.
>

Thanks a million! I've been sidetracked by my "real" job
for the past few weeks, so am just now finding time to
read your post. I really appreciate the help, even if
I've been slow to say so.
L.
>-----Original Message-----
>"Lisa" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
message
>news:28de01c42818$7e78f940$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> tool needed for the workstations? I previously worked
in
>> an office on a Novell server, and I believe we had
>> a "client" software. Was that only because we had
>> Windows as the operating system on the PCs and Novell
as
>> our networking system? I just want to understand this
>
>There is no "client" software with a Windows based
system. The Windows OS
>takes care of everything itself. Except for XP Home and
Win9x (and older),
>you need to make the machines members of the Domain
after the Server has
>been made a domain controller.
>
>Win98 does log into the Domain but is not actually a
member (don't worry
>about what that means). XP Home can only be in a
Workgroup so make the
>Workgroup Name the same name as the Domain. Walter gave
some good advice on
>this and I don't want to rehash what he already wrote.
>
>When you give your Domain a name during the "promotion"
of the server there
>are some things to consider. Active Directory domains
are DNS based, yet
>they keep backward compatibility to a point with the old
Netbois way of
>doing things, so it effectively has two versions of the
name. For example:
>
>mycompany.loc (DNS version, tyipically shown in lower
case letters, two
> words, with "dots")
>MYCOMPANY (Netbios version, often shown in upper case
letters, one
> word, no "dots")
>
>"Later in life" when things ask for the domain name,
sometimes you use one,
>sometimes you use the other, you'll have to deal with
that on a case-by-case
>basis. Myself, I usually use the shorter Netbios version
unless I know the
>other is required.
>
>I usually recommend *not* using the same Domain name on
the private side of
>your network in Active Directory as what your company
may be known by
>"publicly". For example, publicly you might be known
as "mycompany.com", so
>in the Active Directory domain I would use something
else like
>"mycompany.loc" ("loc" for local, ...creative,.. huh?).
Some people preach
>to make them the same,..I do not. It creates some DNS
nightmares,
>particularly if proxys and firewalls get involved and is
too indepth to get
>involved with in this message.
>
>> And secondly, if the boss doesn't want to pop the $200
to
>> upgrade the last PC from XP Home to Pro, or maybe wants
>> to wait a while for some reason known only to bosses,
can
>
>I usually endorse "Public Boss Beatings", but if you
can't do that, then
>just do the best you can with the situation until you
can finally eliminate
>the XP Home machines. What Walter suggested should
handle that fine.
>
>
>--
>
>Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
>www.wandtv.com
>
>
>.
>