How secure is my wireless network....?

I currently run a Netgear DG834G wireless router which is set up only to
accept a connection from my laptop pcmcia card (using the MAC address, ie
only allow access from the listed mac addresses).... I am not using any
form of WEP and would like to know how secure this connection is.. from the
point of view of anyone gaining access to my network, by hacking in, or
whatever. Does anyone have any idea how secure my system is, and what the
likelihood is of anyone unathorised being able to either access the network,
and/or be able to receive anything that is being transmitted by the wireless
system, ie watch whats being sent etc...

Tony

"Tony P" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I currently run a Netgear DG834G wireless router which is set up only to
> accept a connection from my laptop pcmcia card (using the MAC address, ie
> only allow access from the listed mac addresses).... I am not using any
> form of WEP and would like to know how secure this connection is.. from
the
> point of view of anyone gaining access to my network, by hacking in, or
> whatever. Does anyone have any idea how secure my system is, and what the
> likelihood is of anyone unathorised being able to either access the
network,
> and/or be able to receive anything that is being transmitted by the
wireless
> system, ie watch whats being sent etc...
>
> Tony
>

Since you restrict by MAC address, the only way that someone can gain access
to your network is if they ' spoof ' one of your existing MAC addresses. To
do this they would obviously have to take the card out of the system and
read the address off it!

I don't think they can do packet sniffing etc unless they are already on the
network, so they'd have to gain access first

-George


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On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 00:43:01 +0100, Tony P <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> I currently run a Netgear DG834G wireless router which is set up only to
> accept a connection from my laptop pcmcia card (using the MAC address, ie
> only allow access from the listed mac addresses).... I am not using any
> form of WEP and would like to know how secure this connection is.. from the
> point of view of anyone gaining access to my network, by hacking in, or
> whatever. Does anyone have any idea how secure my system is, and what the
> likelihood is of anyone unathorised being able to either access the network,
> and/or be able to receive anything that is being transmitted by the wireless
> system, ie watch whats being sent etc...
>
> Tony
>
Hi Tony.
I doubt your system is secure at all
It will take only seconds to sniff your network, find which mac
addresses are being used, spoof a mac address and connect. If you use
wep then cracking the wep key can take from an hour or so upto days
perhaps depending on how busy your network is.
You might want to consider sending all your stuff through an encrypted
tunnel if you're worried about someone watching your traffic.
Check out the security section in O'Reillys' "Wireless Hacks" which
might or might not be also online on their site. Probably loads of
other stuff on the net, try google.
Jon
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In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed) says...
> I currently run a Netgear DG834G wireless router which is set up only to
> accept a connection from my laptop pcmcia card (using the MAC address, ie
> only allow access from the listed mac addresses).... I am not using any
> form of WEP and would like to know how secure this connection is.. from the
> point of view of anyone gaining access to my network, by hacking in, or
> whatever. Does anyone have any idea how secure my system is, and what the
> likelihood is of anyone unathorised being able to either access the network,
> and/or be able to receive anything that is being transmitted by the wireless
> system, ie watch whats being sent etc...
>
It isn't secure. Both Netgear and Linksys routers have "backdoors" that
use remote administration but the Netgear one can't be switched off.

Here's something to scare you shitless:

http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/1/365069

All it needs is someone running Netstumbler....

No wireless LAN is secure as you can use "sniffers" to guess WEP keys
etc.


--
Conor

I started with nothing and I still have most of it left.

"Conor" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed) says...
> > I currently run a Netgear DG834G wireless router which is set up only to
> > accept a connection from my laptop pcmcia card (using the MAC address,
ie
> > only allow access from the listed mac addresses).... I am not using any
> > form of WEP and would like to know how secure this connection is.. from
the
> > point of view of anyone gaining access to my network, by hacking in, or
> > whatever. Does anyone have any idea how secure my system is, and what
the
> > likelihood is of anyone unathorised being able to either access the
network,
> > and/or be able to receive anything that is being transmitted by the
wireless
> > system, ie watch whats being sent etc...

the MAC addresses can be "snooped" off the air, so someone can spoof the MAC
address, with the right software.

> >
> It isn't secure. Both Netgear and Linksys routers have "backdoors" that
> use remote administration but the Netgear one can't be switched off.
>
> Here's something to scare you shitless:
>
> http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/1/365069
>
> All it needs is someone running Netstumbler....

that note is about the WG602 access point. another note mentions that the
WG602 V2 is not vulnerable, so this isnt generic to all netgear kit. note
that this box is not a router, so is only vulnerable from wireless access
(still scary enough), but not from your internet connection (unless you dont
have a router).

try the suggested name / password yourself - it doesnt work on my other
Netgear kit. Netgear seem to OEM their stuff from several different places,
so i doubt there is a common set of firmware, with the same backdoors for
all their stuff.

of course, that doesnt mean there isnt a different name / password set
embedded somewhere in more or less anything...
>
> No wireless LAN is secure as you can use "sniffers" to guess WEP keys
> etc.

true - but given that i can read your screen from a few 100 meters away
(just passive capture of the radiation from the monitor scan) with fairly
simple electronics, you have to balance security against cost, inconvenience
and what you are protecting.

So - usual suggestions for a home network include:

turn on wep, using 3DES keys (makes it harder to reverse engineer the WEP
key by snooping traffic).
change the SSID, passwords and other wireless defaults on all your kit.
change the keys and any passwords periodically.
use MAC filtering - which you already do.
put a personal firewall on all your PCs, both wireless and wired - and use
it.
lock down services you dont want on each machine.
watch the logs to see if anyone is trying to access your systems.

a lot of this is not really specific to wireless - but wireless LAN means
that if someone breaks into the "air" channel, they are into your internal
network.

if you are getting more serious about securing wireless LAN, then you need
WPA, or one of the dynamic key rotation schemes, centralised authentication,
and firewalling and / or VPN between wireless and wired networks - but this
may mean buying commercial quality access points (at maybe 10 times the
price - but they are better - and you can get software support when bugs
occur and so on).

All this translates into more expensive systems and components, trained
staff etc - so dont go there unless you need it. Oh, and periodic
penetration tests by someone who knows how to break in to test that you set
it up right........

There are lots of "best practice" docs at a cisco site which go over
enterprise system stuff using their kit - other manufacturers must have
similar info, but at least cisco make it readily available- see
www.cisco.com/go/srnd


>
>
> --
> Conor
>
> I started with nothing and I still have most of it left.
--
Regards

Stephen Hope - return address needs fewer xxs

"Jon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 00:43:01 +0100, Tony P <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > I currently run a Netgear DG834G wireless router which is set up only to
> > accept a connection from my laptop pcmcia card (using the MAC address,
ie
> > only allow access from the listed mac addresses).... I am not using any
> > form of WEP and would like to know how secure this connection is.. from
the
> > point of view of anyone gaining access to my network, by hacking in, or
> > whatever. Does anyone have any idea how secure my system is, and what
the
> > likelihood is of anyone unathorised being able to either access the
network,
> > and/or be able to receive anything that is being transmitted by the
wireless
> > system, ie watch whats being sent etc...
> >
> > Tony
> >
> Hi Tony.
> I doubt your system is secure at all
> It will take only seconds to sniff your network, find which mac
> addresses are being used, spoof a mac address and connect. If you use
> wep then cracking the wep key can take from an hour or so upto days
> perhaps depending on how busy your network is.

Jon, can you tell me how I can spoof a mac address please? Im not
questioning your reply, I would just like to do it, to prove how unsecure my
network is.

Tony

Finally then, it sounds like a good idea to enable WEP, to make the cracking
a little less easier?

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, "Tony P" (E-Mail Removed)
says...
>
> "Jon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 00:43:01 +0100, Tony P <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > > I currently run a Netgear DG834G wireless router which is set up only to
> > > accept a connection from my laptop pcmcia card (using the MAC address,
> ie
> > > only allow access from the listed mac addresses).... I am not using any
> > > form of WEP and would like to know how secure this connection is.. from
> the
> > > point of view of anyone gaining access to my network, by hacking in, or
> > > whatever. Does anyone have any idea how secure my system is, and what
> the
> > > likelihood is of anyone unathorised being able to either access the
> network,
> > > and/or be able to receive anything that is being transmitted by the
> wireless
> > > system, ie watch whats being sent etc...
> > >
> > > Tony
> > >
> > Hi Tony.
> > I doubt your system is secure at all
> > It will take only seconds to sniff your network, find which mac
> > addresses are being used, spoof a mac address and connect. If you use
> > wep then cracking the wep key can take from an hour or so upto days
> > perhaps depending on how busy your network is.
>
> Jon, can you tell me how I can spoof a mac address please? Im not
> questioning your reply, I would just like to do it, to prove how unsecure my
> network is.
>
> Tony
>
> Finally then, it sounds like a good idea to enable WEP, to make the cracking
> a little less easier?
>
This might do it, don't know if it handles wireless devices:
http://www.klcconsulting.net/smac/
Otherwise look for a Linux tool called WLAN-jack (the website of the
author is http://802.11ninja.net/ but it's currently down) or other
tools that use the AirJack drivers.
You might find this interesting:
http://www.bradford-sw.com/board/board.cgi?
id=BSI_Reference&action=download&gul=63
(mind the wrap :-)

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:55:42 +0100, Tony P <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

[..]
>
>
> Jon, can you tell me how I can spoof a mac address please? Im not
> questioning your reply, I would just like to do it, to prove how unsecure my
> network is.
>
> Tony
>
> Finally then, it sounds like a good idea to enable WEP, to make the cracking
> a little less easier?
>
>
Tony,
I don't know how windows does it but you use the ifconfig command with
Linux.
eg. ifconfig [interface] hw ether [mac address]

But if your net is within a house and not building to building then
you can be pretty secure by making sure your signal doesn't leave your
property.

If you want to learn lots more stuff about security then have a dig
around on hackingexposed.com site as well as the O'Reilly site. You'll
wish you never thought about building a net :-)

Jon

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In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, "Jon" (E-Mail Removed)
says...
> On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:55:42 +0100, Tony P <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> [..]
> >
> >
> > Jon, can you tell me how I can spoof a mac address please? Im not
> > questioning your reply, I would just like to do it, to prove how unsecure my
> > network is.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > Finally then, it sounds like a good idea to enable WEP, to make the cracking
> > a little less easier?
> >
> >
> Tony,
> I don't know how windows does it but you use the ifconfig command with
> Linux.
> eg. ifconfig [interface] hw ether [mac address]
>
> But if your net is within a house and not building to building then
> you can be pretty secure by making sure your signal doesn't leave your
> property.
>
I've heard that lining your hat with bacofoil works well too.
:-)

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 19:42:52 +0100, Rob Morley <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
[..]
> I've heard that lining your hat with bacofoil works well too.
>:-)

I've found single malt whiskey cannisters work better and you get to
drink the whiskey too
:-)

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