Router Recommendation

Hi

I am looking for a router recommendation.

Simple requirements:

Support for ADLS2+
Needs to have inbuilt firewall (not just NAT).
Firewall must work when NAT is disabled.
1-port switch is OK (so is more ports).
Wireless not really wanted or required but would still be considered.

Would prefer a well-known brand with a good support site.

3-G fail-over would be very advantageous but not vital.
Has anyone any experience of these (not interested in Billion, see
below)

I have a Billion Bipac 7402X but the *firewall* in this does not work if
NAT is disabled (all incoming and outgoing data is completely
unrestricted).

Does the ZyXEL P660H-61 support ADSL2+ and if so what is the ADSL2+
performance like?
I have one of these but it has had a few issues lately. If it supports
and works well with ADSL2+ I will hang on to it as a backup.

--
Many thanks
PAJ

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:36:57 +0000, "www.GymRatZ.co.uk"
<discount-fitness-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Sorry, Forgot to say.... Doesn't have an inbuilt modem but supports
>ADSL2+ very nicely. I have the shop one on a Be* Pro connection ADSL2+
>AnnexM (getting 22Mbps/2.2Mbps)with failover on WAN2 on a PAYG Entanet
>ADSL. And one at home on an O2 ADSL2+ connection using both ISP
>supplied boxes set up as transparrent bridges so connection speeds are
>as hot as using the Be* box as the modem/router/switch by it's self.
>Likewise it also means it is just as at home sitting on a cable modem.

Thanks for this. I had actually just started looking at the Vigors,
specifically the 2820 (it looks really good.). I had looked at the 2910
but for some reason I thought it did not support ADSL2+ (maybe I will
revisit this).

I just joined their forum to get some opinions on the 2820.
I have also emailed Draytek (SEG Communications) and asked if they could
confirm if the firewall works fully when NAT is not used. Not sure if
they will reply as the form said it was not to be used for pre-sales
(but I cannot find any other way to contact them).

>VOIP works brilliantly for squeezing 2 lines out of your ADSL line and
>you can have up to 6 different VOIP accounts set up too. Great for
>different incoming numbers and preferred outgoing call routing.

I have no need for the VoIP (have this taken care of already) or
wireless so the 2820 should suit me perfectly (and save a few bob).

>Ummm do you get the feeling I really like 'em?

I think I may become a fan too if the firewall works properly with no
NAT.

Thanks again.

Do any of these recommended routers support NAT loopback? That is, if I have
group 1 of my LAN nodes mapped by NAT to WAN address A, and group 2 of my LAN
nodes mapped by NAT to WAN address B, can I connect to externally accessible
servers in group 1 from nodes in group 2 by connecting to WAN address A (i.e.
not by connecting to the server's LAN address)?

NAT loopback used to work well (once enabled) on the Zyxel P-660HW-61, but on
the newer P-660HW-D1 it only works between nodes mapped to the same WAN
address, i.e. in the example above, I can connect to servers in group 1 from
other nodes in group 1 (using WAN address A), but if I try connecting from
group 2 I get a partial connection in which the server is unable to send the
connection reply.

www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
> Draytek do VLAN but I think that's more down to ethernet ports etc.
> http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/kb_vigor_vlan.html
>
> This also incorporates (on mine) WVLAN so wireless 15 wireless groups
> can be connected to or restricted from any combinations of the 4 VLAN's
> on ethernet ports.
>
> Not quite what you're after though I don't think.

No, not really what I'm looking for. What I want to do is set up a server for
access from the outside world - say an FTP server on ftp.mydomain.co.uk - and
test it by connecting to ftp.mydomain.co.uk with an FTP client on a different
PC on the LAN (or even the same PC, but using a different IP address which maps
via a different NAT group). Connecting by LAN address does not test the setup
properly, since the FTP server is set up to tell the remote PC to set up a data
connection on the WAN address.

Basically, I want one of my PCs to be able to connect to another exactly as if
they were remote from each other, like another user connecting from outside.

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, news@news-
only.invalid says...

> Does the ZyXEL P660H-61 support ADSL2+ and if so what is the ADSL2+
> performance like?
> I have one of these but it has had a few issues lately. If it supports
> and works well with ADSL2+ I will hang on to it as a backup.

Tests done by AAISP show the -61 will work with 21CN ADSL2+ but it
synchronises at a lower speed than other models, and that is variable.
They are setting 21CN conversions on lines with a -61 to 20CN speeds.
The -D1 is OK AFAICR

--
John W
To mail me replace the obvious with co.uk twice

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:56:06 -0000, John Weston
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, news@news-
>only.invalid says...
>
>> Does the ZyXEL P660H-61 support ADSL2+ and if so what is the ADSL2+
>> performance like?
>> I have one of these but it has had a few issues lately. If it supports
>> and works well with ADSL2+ I will hang on to it as a backup.
>
>Tests done by AAISP show the -61 will work with 21CN ADSL2+ but it
>synchronises at a lower speed than other models, and that is variable.
>They are setting 21CN conversions on lines with a -61 to 20CN speeds.
>The -D1 is OK AFAICR


OK thanks. I guess I will hang on to it as a spare (until I find a
better one).

Alfred E Neuman wrote:
> www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
>> Draytek do VLAN but I think that's more down to ethernet ports etc.
>> http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/kb_vigor_vlan.html
>>
>> This also incorporates (on mine) WVLAN so wireless 15 wireless groups
>> can be connected to or restricted from any combinations of the 4 VLAN's
>> on ethernet ports.
>>
>> Not quite what you're after though I don't think.
>
> No, not really what I'm looking for. What I want to do is set up a
> server for access from the outside world - say an FTP server on
> ftp.mydomain.co.uk - and test it by connecting to ftp.mydomain.co.uk
> with an FTP client on a different PC on the LAN (or even the same PC,
> but using a different IP address which maps via a different NAT group).
> Connecting by LAN address does not test the setup properly, since the
> FTP server is set up to tell the remote PC to set up a data connection
> on the WAN address.
>
> Basically, I want one of my PCs to be able to connect to another exactly
> as if they were remote from each other, like another user connecting
> from outside.

Well I have set up many such networks. I just arrange a friend to test
for me,after I have it working internally.


You are unlikely to get a couple of WAN addresses anyway...

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Alfred E Neuman wrote:
>> No, not really what I'm looking for. What I want to do is set up a
>> server for access from the outside world - say an FTP server on
>> ftp.mydomain.co.uk - and test it by connecting to ftp.mydomain.co.uk
>> with an FTP client on a different PC on the LAN (or even the same PC,
>> but using a different IP address which maps via a different NAT
>> group). Connecting by LAN address does not test the setup properly,
>> since the FTP server is set up to tell the remote PC to set up a data
>> connection on the WAN address.
>>
>> Basically, I want one of my PCs to be able to connect to another
>> exactly as if they were remote from each other, like another user
>> connecting from outside.

> Well I have set up many such networks. I just arrange a friend to test
> for me,after I have it working internally.

What if I'm experimenting with a lot of configurations, or I want to test a lot
of different modes of access? I'm not sure I've got friends with that much
patience. Not for long, anyway.

> You are unlikely to get a couple of WAN addresses anyway...

Get yourself a decent ISP (see cross-posting of this thread). I have a bank of
16 WAN addresses, no extra charge.

Alfred E Neuman wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> Alfred E Neuman wrote:
>>> No, not really what I'm looking for. What I want to do is set up a
>>> server for access from the outside world - say an FTP server on
>>> ftp.mydomain.co.uk - and test it by connecting to ftp.mydomain.co.uk
>>> with an FTP client on a different PC on the LAN (or even the same PC,
>>> but using a different IP address which maps via a different NAT
>>> group). Connecting by LAN address does not test the setup properly,
>>> since the FTP server is set up to tell the remote PC to set up a data
>>> connection on the WAN address.
>>>
>>> Basically, I want one of my PCs to be able to connect to another
>>> exactly as if they were remote from each other, like another user
>>> connecting from outside.
>
>> Well I have set up many such networks. I just arrange a friend to test
>> for me,after I have it working internally.
>
> What if I'm experimenting with a lot of configurations, or I want to
> test a lot of different modes of access? I'm not sure I've got friends
> with that much patience. Not for long, anyway.
>

Get a shell login on a friendly external site...


>> You are unlikely to get a couple of WAN addresses anyway...
>
> Get yourself a decent ISP (see cross-posting of this thread). I have a
> bank of 16 WAN addresses, no extra charge.

<shrug>

No need for all that, since I can host as many sites as I want on one...

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Alfred E Neuman wrote:
>> What if I'm experimenting with a lot of configurations, or I want to
>> test a lot of different modes of access? I'm not sure I've got friends
>> with that much patience. Not for long, anyway.
>
> Get a shell login on a friendly external site...

There's always someone who insists on answering a different question from the
one asked ...

>>> You are unlikely to get a couple of WAN addresses anyway...
>>
>> Get yourself a decent ISP (see cross-posting of this thread). I have a
>> bank of 16 WAN addresses, no extra charge.
>
> <shrug>
>
> No need for all that, since I can host as many sites as I want on one...

Fine, if that's all you need. What if you wanted to host two web servers, both
on port 80, or two mail servers, both on port 25? You might want to experiment
with the configuration of one while keeping the other running.

Anyway, back to the original question ... does anyone have a recommendation for
a router that does NAT loopback properly?