Router for NTL - suggestions?

Being too far from the exchange for ADSL, my only option for broadband
is to go with NTL, which I have ordered. Now I need to find a router
for my home network, and it's very difficult to determine which models
are suitable. I need:

- Compatibility with NTL cable modems (of course)
- NAT, with port forwarding (I plan to run a web server)
- Dynamic DNS support (because NTL uses dynamic IPs)

(An alternative to Dynamic DNS support would be if I can find a router
which has a CLI interface (eg. via Telnet) that would allow a program
to monitor the WAN IP address. In fact, for my particular application,
this is actually preferable to Dynamic DNS).

I *think* I might need MAC address cloneing, so I can get the NTL
service up & running direct to a PC, then transfer over to the router.
Any advice on this issue would be gratefully received.

A built-in DHCP server would be nice, although I could always run one
on another machine if necessary. Finally, a built-in 4-port switch
would be nice, but I can always get a separate one if I have to.

So far, the Solwise BIG-31/4P looks to fit the bill. It's the only one
I've found that I can confirm supports DynDNS. Other obvious
candidates are Linksys BEFSR41, DLink DI604, Netgear RP614, but I
cannot find out if any of them have DynDNS support. I also notice that
DABS are selling the BenQ ESG103 at a ludicrously cheap price, but
DynDNS and MAC cloneing are an unknown on this one.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Clive Backham wrote:

> - Compatibility with NTL cable modems (of course)
> - NAT, with port forwarding (I plan to run a web server)
> - Dynamic DNS support (because NTL uses dynamic IPs)
>
> (An alternative to Dynamic DNS support would be if I can find a router
> which has a CLI interface (eg. via Telnet) that would allow a program
> to monitor the WAN IP address. In fact, for my particular application,
> this is actually preferable to Dynamic DNS).
>
> I *think* I might need MAC address cloneing, so I can get the NTL
> service up & running direct to a PC, then transfer over to the router.
> Any advice on this issue would be gratefully received.
>
> A built-in DHCP server would be nice, although I could always run one
> on another machine if necessary. Finally, a built-in 4-port switch
> would be nice, but I can always get a separate one if I have to.

I use a Belkin 4-port Cable/DSL router, which seems to do all that you
want. I have found it highly reliable and its firewall seems to have
been 100% effective. The only thing I don't do is run a web server, but
reading the book it appears that wouldn't be as problem. You can always
have a look on the Belkin website.

--

Jock Mackirdy
Bedford

In news:(E-Mail Removed), Jock Mackirdy
<(E-Mail Removed)> farted out:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Clive Backham
> wrote:
>
>> - Compatibility with NTL cable modems (of course)
>> - NAT, with port forwarding (I plan to run a web server)
>> - Dynamic DNS support (because NTL uses dynamic IPs)
>>
>> (An alternative to Dynamic DNS support would be if I can find a
>> router which has a CLI interface (eg. via Telnet) that would allow a
>> program to monitor the WAN IP address. In fact, for my particular
>> application, this is actually preferable to Dynamic DNS).
>>
>> I *think* I might need MAC address cloneing, so I can get the NTL
>> service up & running direct to a PC, then transfer over to the
>> router. Any advice on this issue would be gratefully received.
>>
>> A built-in DHCP server would be nice, although I could always run one
>> on another machine if necessary. Finally, a built-in 4-port switch
>> would be nice, but I can always get a separate one if I have to.
>
> I use a Belkin 4-port Cable/DSL router, which seems to do all that you
> want. I have found it highly reliable and its firewall seems to have
> been 100% effective. The only thing I don't do is run a web server,
> but reading the book it appears that wouldn't be as problem. You can
> always have a look on the Belkin website.

I also use the Belkin 4-port cable/dsl router, and I've had no probs with it
whatsoever. It does everything you've described, Clive and it does have
support for the web server. You can forward port 80 to your PC's internal IP
(that's not dynamic and it's DHCP-assigned) whilst every other port remains
in complete stealth mode. The router has a built in switch and a load of
other features!

NTL's BB service can cope with 2 MACs at a time (not simultaneous), so you
wouldn't need to worry too much about that, but the Belkin router can do it
if you wish.

--
Khyle Westmoreland
http : / / www (dot) khyle (dot) org (dot) uk

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:45:22 +0100, "Khyle Westmoreland"
<khyle@|REMOVEME|khyle.org.ukSPAM> wrote:

>In news:(E-Mail Removed), Jock Mackirdy
><(E-Mail Removed)> farted out:
>> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Clive Backham
>> wrote:
>>
>>> - Dynamic DNS support (because NTL uses dynamic IPs)

>> I use a Belkin 4-port Cable/DSL router, which seems to do all that you
>> want. I have found it highly reliable and its firewall seems to have
>> been 100% effective. .....
>
>I also use the Belkin 4-port cable/dsl router, and I've had no probs with it
>whatsoever. It does everything you've described, Clive and it does have
>support for the web server.

Thanks to everyone for their comments. However.....

I looked up the specs of their routers on the Belkin web site, and
there were two models: F5D5230U4, and F5D5231-4. Neither of them
specified whether they support any dynamic DNS services. I downloaded
the manual for the 5231-4 (there wasn't one for the 5230U4 online),
and again there was no mention of dynamic DNS support. As you will
appreciate, since I wish to run a web server, and NTL is a dynamic IP
service, any router I buy *must* have dynamic DNS support (or some
other programmatic way for me to discover the WAN IP address).

Does anyone happen to know if either of these Belkin routers do have
dynamic DNS clients built in? It would be nice to find out the 5230U4
supports it, as I can get one for just 37 quid + VAT at a local
supplier, and I've always been impressed by the quality of Belkin
stuff.

So far the only routers I've found that I *know* have dynamic DNS
clients are the previously-mentioned Solwise BIG (which Troy has
warned me about crashing with NTL), and the Draytek 2104p (just found
it). I cannot afford to have the router die while I'm not around: it
kind of defeats the object of running a web server :-)

>NTL's BB service can cope with 2 MACs at a time (not simultaneous), so you
>wouldn't need to worry too much about that,

OK, thanks for that. Looks like I don't need MAC cloneing after all.

Clive Backham wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:45:22 +0100, "Khyle Westmoreland"
> <khyle@|REMOVEME|khyle.org.ukSPAM> wrote:
>
>
>>In news:(E-Mail Removed), Jock Mackirdy
>><(E-Mail Removed)> farted out:
>>
>>>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Clive Backham
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>- Dynamic DNS support (because NTL uses dynamic IPs)
>
>
>>>I use a Belkin 4-port Cable/DSL router, which seems to do all that you
>>>want. I have found it highly reliable and its firewall seems to have
>>>been 100% effective. .....
>>
>>I also use the Belkin 4-port cable/dsl router, and I've had no probs with it
>>whatsoever. It does everything you've described, Clive and it does have
>>support for the web server.
>
>
> Thanks to everyone for their comments. However.....
>
> I looked up the specs of their routers on the Belkin web site, and
> there were two models: F5D5230U4, and F5D5231-4. Neither of them
> specified whether they support any dynamic DNS services. I downloaded
> the manual for the 5231-4 (there wasn't one for the 5230U4 online),
> and again there was no mention of dynamic DNS support. As you will
> appreciate, since I wish to run a web server, and NTL is a dynamic IP
> service, any router I buy *must* have dynamic DNS support (or some
> other programmatic way for me to discover the WAN IP address).
>
> Does anyone happen to know if either of these Belkin routers do have
> dynamic DNS clients built in? It would be nice to find out the 5230U4
> supports it, as I can get one for just 37 quid + VAT at a local
> supplier, and I've always been impressed by the quality of Belkin
> stuff.
>
> So far the only routers I've found that I *know* have dynamic DNS
> clients are the previously-mentioned Solwise BIG (which Troy has
> warned me about crashing with NTL), and the Draytek 2104p (just found
> it). I cannot afford to have the router die while I'm not around: it
> kind of defeats the object of running a web server :-)
>
>
>>NTL's BB service can cope with 2 MACs at a time (not simultaneous), so you
>>wouldn't need to worry too much about that,
>
>
> OK, thanks for that. Looks like I don't need MAC cloneing after all.

www.DynDNS.org is available for the Netgear RP114 so either I have
misunderstood your requirements for dynamic DNS or you want a different
DDNS provider. Can't you have an app on your server which connects to
your DDNS provider and tells it what the WAN facing IP address of your
network is?

Just wondering.
Phos.

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 18:50:27 +0100, Phosgene <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Clive Backham wrote:

>> So far the only routers I've found that I *know* have dynamic DNS
>> clients are the previously-mentioned Solwise BIG (which Troy has
>> warned me about crashing with NTL), and the Draytek 2104p (just found
>> it). I cannot afford to have the router die while I'm not around: it
>> kind of defeats the object of running a web server :-)
>
>www.DynDNS.org is available for the Netgear RP114 so either I have
>misunderstood your requirements for dynamic DNS or you want a different
>DDNS provider.

No you haven't misunderstood: this is precisely the sort of
information I was seeking. Thank you!

DynDNS.org is the DDNS service I was planning on using, so if the
RP114 has a built-in DynDNS.org client, that's fine. I cannot
understand why the datasheets published on various manufacturers'
websites don't bother to mention this feature.

And speaking of features not being mentioned, the RP114 datasheet
doesn't say anything about port forwarding. I take it that this is
supported? (It is on most routers AFAICT)

>Can't you have an app on your server which connects to
>your DDNS provider and tells it what the WAN facing IP address of your
>network is?

Yes I could, but actually discovering the WAN IP address is the
problem. It seems that most routers only have HTML interfaces, so
parsing the page output to extract the IP address would seem to be
fairly tricky. I know there are a number of third party clients that
purport to do this (Dynamic Update looks a possible candidate), but it
just struck me as much easier if the router had it built in.

I have a friend who runs a Draytek 2600 on his ADSL line, and know
that the DDNS feature works well on that, so maybe I should just spend
that little bit extra and go for the 2104p.

Just a final thank you to everyone who has helped me try to find a
suitable router.

After Phosgene pointed me at Netgear, I finally managed to find an
actual downloadable reference manual for their RP614. If this device
is reliable and does everything the manual says, then it looks to be
exactly what I'm after. And very inexpensive, as well :-)

(E-Mail Removed) (Clive Backham) wrote:

<snip>
>
> Yes I could, but actually discovering the WAN IP address is the
> problem. It seems that most routers only have HTML interfaces, so
> parsing the page output to extract the IP address would seem to be
> fairly tricky. I know there are a number of third party clients that
> purport to do this (Dynamic Update looks a possible candidate), but it
> just struck me as much easier if the router had it built in.
>

Hi,
I used to use a DDNS client with no-ip.com, and the way it worked was
that when the client connects to the update page, the page would use the IP
that accessed the web page. All web servers have the ability to take note
of the IP used for the page access, and I think this is a standard method of
updating the IP. The advantage of this is that you don't need to interogate
the router to get its current IP, the remote DDNS site does that for you.
Having the facility built into the router would be better, but it is not the
only easy option.

--

Martin

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed) (Clive Backham) wrote:

> So far, the Solwise BIG-31/4P looks to fit the bill. It's the only one
> I've found that I can confirm supports DynDNS. Other obvious
> candidates are Linksys BEFSR41, DLink DI604, Netgear RP614, but I
> cannot find out if any of them have DynDNS support.

I use DynDNS with the Linksys BEFSR41 on NTL 600Kbps via STB with MacOS
X 10.2.6.

On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:12:51 +0100, Martin Cooper
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I used to use a DDNS client with no-ip.com, and the way it worked was
>that when the client connects to the update page, the page would use the IP
>that accessed the web page.

Really? So the idea is that the client doesn't bother to find out if
the IP address has changed, it just periodically contacts the update
page? That frankly sounds like a pretty daft way to do it. Maybe not
from the client's point of view, but if I was running a DDNS service I
would be pretty pissed off if 99% of the hits on my update page were
redundant, consuming bandwidth and process time for no reason.