Reply from BT Chief exec re my line failure...

As I mentioned yesterday, I have had a check carried out on your line and I
have since had the results back, however I would like to take this
opportunity to explain a few things that may help clear up any confusion.

In September/October time of last year, we had been trialling a new system
which was used to measure lines to see if they would be able to support
ADSL - this was not trialled on members of the public but on dummy orders.
As the new system proved to be far more accurate than that which we were
using at the time, it was introduced in November, as yet I have been unable
to get an exact date, and therefore our system information was updated
accordingly and any future orders or enquiries were checked using this more
accurate system. This may explain the discrepancy you experienced with your
line, when you placed your order.

As the engineer quite correctly indicated, and as you have said yourself,
the distance he measured you of 5.8km would have had your line as amber, but
the measurement of 6km is only meant to be indicative. If you put a signal
down a cable, the signal will get weaker as the cable gets longer. This is
referred to as line loss. This line loss is greater at higher frequencies
than the ordinary telephone service, in addition the quality of the line and
other atmospheric conditions can all play a factor in the line loss
measurement, loss is sometimes described as noise and/or db level and our
current line loss limit is 60db. In practice, we cannot be precise about how
long a line can be before it exceeds the 60db line loss limit. This is
because other factors also have an effect on the quality of service, such as
the individual technical characteristics of the line involved.

The results from the test carried out on your line show the line loss as
just over 63db, which means that, unfortunately, your line would be unable
to support broadband, and we simply can not provide a service to somebody
when we know that service would not be of the quality and standard that it
should be.
With regard to your neighbours, it should also be remembered that a
telephone cable does not travel in an exactly straight line - it has to take
local geography into consideration, with lines being routed taking account
of factors such as hills or canals. Line length and distance from an
exchange are not, therefore, the same thing. It could be the case that your
neighbours lines are routed differently to yours and that is why they are
able to get service.

Unfortunately our current policy is that we can not re route or re cable
lines for those who currently want ADSL but whose lines are unable to
support it, nor can we simply swap with other pairs as in some instances
there may be no pairs available. No pairs or line can be guaranteed to be
able to support ADSL, until such time as a telephone number and order have
been placed against them and then relevant line tests carried out.

However we have recently launched a service that I think may be of some
assistance to your, of course I must still stress that this would be no
guarantee of service, but we do now offer a service which you can request
through your ISP, whereby you can ask for simultaneous provision of both a
new telephone line and broadband, making it quite clear that you are only
ordering the telephone line for broadband use. Should the line after testing
prove that it is unable to support broadband the order for both would be
cancelled and you would not incur any charges or be held to any terms or
conditions.

I realise that this response may be disappointing for you, and am sorry that
currently other than the simultaneous order option, I am unable at this time
to offer you an alternative solution, but I can assure you that as a
company, BT are constantly looking at new technologies and ways of supplying
ADSL, and with that in mind I will keep your details on record and put them
in my "new technologies" folder, and if we need any trialists for possible
new solutions I will contact you accordingly and put your name forward if
appropriate.

My sincere apologies once again for the delayed response in getting back to
you since first you contacted Ben, I do hope, however, that this e mail has
at least helped in some way to explain our process regarding ADSL.

"Decal" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bu94hd$mgk$(E-Mail Removed)...
> As I mentioned yesterday, I have had a check carried out on your
line -snip-

So what are you telling us? This is common knowledge in the broadband
arena.

Wango

"·.¸¸.·´¯`Wango´¯`·.¸¸.·" <·.¸¸.·´¯`Wango´¯`·.¸¸.·@shotmail.com> wrote in
message news:40085364$0$221$(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Decal" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:bu94hd$mgk$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > As I mentioned yesterday, I have had a check carried out on your
> line -snip-
>
> So what are you telling us? This is common knowledge in the broadband
> arena.

I think he is trying to tell us the BT's chief exec does bother to write
back... either that or a miracle just happened.

Simon Newton" <(E-Mail Removed) > wrote in
message news:Wh9Ob.30486$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "·.¸¸.·´¯`Wango´¯`·.¸¸.·" <·.¸¸.·´¯`Wango´¯`·.¸¸.·@shotmail.com> wrote in
> message news:40085364$0$221$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > "Decal" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:bu94hd$mgk$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > As I mentioned yesterday, I have had a check carried out on your
> > line -snip-
> >
> > So what are you telling us? This is common knowledge in the broadband
> > arena.
>
> I think he is trying to tell us the BT's chief exec does bother to write
> back... either that or a miracle just happened.

In a rather well informed and helpful way as well for someone that is
trained by BT, I don't mean it badly but there doesn't seem to be (or at
least last time I checked) a policy of training all employees in all
services with a bit of technical expertise thrown in - perahaps job rotation
for customer facing staff would help all BT departments understand what
ADSL, Broadband Voice and all the other supposedly obscure services which
couldn't possibly be broken because of a line fault - 'we only deal with
faults at the faults department' - yes and my line card at my local exchange
needs resetting at my local exchange, that your line card, not plusnets, why
can't you log it as a fault..... you get the idea and thats one of the
senarios where perahaps they are right, the point is they don't understand
anything about it.

So well done BT lets hope this level of expertise filters down to other bt
employees so that one day they might be as well informed about their
products as people in uk.telecom.* are.

Sam

Sam
>
>


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"Sam Albrow" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:vRcOb.16028$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
-snip-

Bt provide excellent internal product and technical training for the staff
in the BOU especially the repair teams both adsl and IP. Much more than the
ISP's provide that's for certain.

Wango

>Re: Reply from BT Chief exec re my line failure...

What's his e-mail address?

> What's his e-mail address?

Try pierre...(one dot)...danon@....bt...com

(just have a quick check to see if he`s still a director)

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
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Better to target Ben the broadband Britain champion (my arse)

"Billy Blowoff" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:mkxOb.16795$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Better to target Ben the broadband Britain champion (my arse)
>
He's done more for Broadband than any other fucker in this country.

Wango

"·.¸¸.·´¯`Wango´¯`·.¸¸.·" <·.¸¸.·´¯`Wango´¯`·.¸¸.·@shotmail.com> wrote in
message news:40085364$0$221$(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Decal" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:bu94hd$mgk$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > As I mentioned yesterday, I have had a check carried out on your
> line -snip-
>
> So what are you telling us? This is common knowledge in the broadband
> arena.

The important bit is the simultaneous ADSL + new line bit and if it fails
after install the customer doesn't incur charges. This has been asked about
many times in this group and generally the feeling has been that you can try
it but sometimes, no matter how hard you try, you can't get BT to refund
everything should the new line fail. Now it's carte blanch and you can.
Which is good news for all those people on the fringes with there current
lines.

Me, on the other hand is still hoping for a bit more line loss to be
acceptable.

>
> Wango
>
>