Repeaters, send/receive through antenna only, or base unit to?

I'd like to get an outdoor directional antenna facing my parents house
(2 houses away), and rebroadcast their signal in my house. I’ve
been able to connect to their network with a directional antenna
connected to a network card and aiming it out a window but I want to be
able to move around and after replacing my windows with Low-E my signal
is gone. Do you know if repeaters collect signals through their antenna
and repeat them through their base, or do they collect and repeat the
signal through their antenna only?

I’d like to put an outdoor antenna dish to get my parents signal,
carry it down to the base unit 2 floors below and rebroadcast it. The
base unit needs to know what I do, get that signal and broadcast it to
my parents house. Do you know if repeaters both send/receive only
through their antenna or, do they receive/send through both their
antenna and base?

Hope I explained that well. Jennifer


------------------------------------------------------------------------
View this thread: http://www.wirelessforums.org/showthread.php?t=36161
http://www.wirelessforums.org

Hi. First of all, there is no sending or receiving at the base unless
it has no visible antenna. Standard repeaters are just one radio that
receives, holds and then repeats. They do everything thru their
antenna.

They are not usually recommended as there can be all kinds of problems
with them, especially if you want to do WPA security (which you
should, probably), but they are sold and some people report success.

I'm setting up a true two-radio repeater right now, where one is
pointed at the internet source or gateway and the other is pointed at
a pair of houses that want wifi. The specialized radio antenna I have
is up in a tree with a better view and gets a much better signal than
inside the houses.

It's more complicated with two units, but should work reliably when I
get it set up.

Hope that helps you get a little orientation repeaters.
Steve

seaweedsteve wrote:
> Hi. First of all, there is no sending or receiving at the base unless
> it has no visible antenna. Standard repeaters are just one radio that
> receives, holds and then repeats. They do everything thru their
> antenna.
>
> They are not usually recommended as there can be all kinds of problems
> with them, especially if you want to do WPA security (which you
> should, probably), but they are sold and some people report success.
>
> I'm setting up a true two-radio repeater right now, where one is
> pointed at the internet source or gateway and the other is pointed at
> a pair of houses that want wifi. The specialized radio antenna I have
> is up in a tree with a better view and gets a much better signal than
> inside the houses.
>
> It's more complicated with two units, but should work reliably when I
> get it set up.
>
> Hope that helps you get a little orientation repeaters.
> Steve

Huh? I hope you know that the junk you typed above is way way way wrong and
reiterates false information.......

You may want to learn about bi-directional amplifiers...... They not only
make and sell em, but they make and sell em in packages you can buy
online...
While not the only one, here's a link I happen to have handy...
http://www.cellantenna.com/repeater/...anwireless.htm

seaweedsteve wrote:
> Hi. First of all, there is no sending or receiving at the base unless
> it has no visible antenna. Standard repeaters are just one radio that
> receives, holds and then repeats. They do everything thru their
> antenna.

That makes no sense at all. Actually, its incorrect information.

Whether or not an antenna is visible is a moot point as some devices
have built in antennas inside the weather proof enclosure. The ONLY
thing that does anything "through the antenna(s)" would be a passive
repeater - nothing more than two antennas connected back to back and
pointing in different directions.

I don't know what a "standard repeater" is, but I do know what
"store and forward" and "full duplex" repeaters are.

Consumer grade "repeaters" receive a bunch of packets, turn off the
receiver and turn on the transmitter , then send the packets back out
on the same channel/frequency (that's a simple over simplification,
of course) and that means your throughput is halved. And they have just
one omni-directional antennas. This is the same general idea behind
a mesh set up.

A "real" repeater has two actual radio units and can send and receive
at the same time. It may have two direction antennas or a direction
and an omni, it all depends on the application. We often use two
back to back boxes with no visible antennas to repeat a signal over
a hill or to increase range.

Venus <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:Venus.32orq3
@no-mx.wirelessforums.org:

>
> I'd like to get an outdoor directional antenna facing my parents house
> (2 houses away), and rebroadcast their signal in my house. I’ve
> been able to connect to their network with a directional antenna
> connected to a network card and aiming it out a window but I want to be
> able to move around and after replacing my windows with Low-E my signal
> is gone. Do you know if repeaters collect signals through their antenna
> and repeat them through their base, or do they collect and repeat the
> signal through their antenna only?
>
> I’d like to put an outdoor antenna dish to get my parents signal,
> carry it down to the base unit 2 floors below and rebroadcast it. The
> base unit needs to know what I do, get that signal and broadcast it to
> my parents house. Do you know if repeaters both send/receive only
> through their antenna or, do they receive/send through both their
> antenna and base?
>
> Hope I explained that well. Jennifer

Not really.

Anyway, what I'm assuming here is 1) that your parents have a wireless
router. And 2) you want to use their internet thru their wireless router
from your house.

Additionally, not only above, but 3) you want to have wireless access
within your house as well.

How much do you want to spend ? If you have none of the equipment, what you
would like to do would cost in the vicinity of $200 USD to accomplish.

For $150 from TigerDirect, you can buy an Engenious outdoor all-in-one b/g
bridge. All in one means the unit has an integrated antenna and utilizes
POE (power over ethernet) so from wherever the unit is installed outside,
the only wire run is a CAT5 eth cable and not messing with coax and rf
connectors and such. This particular product has a 'Client Bridge' mode.
This means that it would act as a client to connect to an AP, just as any
laptop or desktop 802.x adapter would. You could use this mode to connect
to your parents AP.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...ils.asp?EdpNo=
2787262&CatId=372

This would be mounted outside of your house facing your parents house. The
CAT5 cable from the radio would come down to the building entry point.
There is an inline power injector for the POE that runs from a DC adapter,
a small little plastic box with 2 network jscks and a power jack.
After the CAT5 enters the building, somewher in line you would insert the
POE injector. (Somewhere meaning wherever an AC plug is handy to plug in
the DC adapter.) The CAT5 from the radio into 1 end, the CAT5 going to it's
final destination on the other, and the DC power plug on the side (I think
the side).

That takes care of getting the wireless connection into your house, and
what you have inside is a CAT5 cable.

This cable can then be connected dirctly into your PC, or can be plugged
into another wireless AP to provide wireless at your location. That is
where the additional $50 comes from, the extra AP at your house.

Done.

As for configuration, as stated, the Engenius as a 'Client Bridge', no DHCP
on that if DHCP is enabled at your parents rtr. And the CAT5 connection
from the outdoor bridge to the wireless AP/rtr INSIDE your house would plug
into one of the INSIDE AP's regular ETH jacks, NOT the WAN jack.

On Jan 6, 1:02 am, "Peter Pan" <PeterPanNOS...@AkamailNOSPAM.com>
wrote:
> seaweedsteve wrote:
> > Hi. First of all, there is no sending or receiving at the base unless
> > it has no visible antenna. Standard repeaters are just one radio that
> > receives, holds and then repeats. They do everything thru their
> > antenna.
>
> > They are not usually recommended as there can be all kinds of problems
> > with them, especially if you want to do WPA security (which you
> > should, probably), but they are sold and some people report success.
>
> > I'm setting up a true two-radio repeater right now, where one is
> > pointed at the internet source or gateway and the other is pointed at
> > a pair of houses that want wifi. The specialized radio antenna I have
> > is up in a tree with a better view and gets a much better signal than
> > inside the houses.
>
> > It's more complicated with two units, but should work reliably when I
> > get it set up.
>
> > Hope that helps you get a little orientation repeaters.
> > Steve
>
> Huh? I hope you know that the junk you typed above is way way way wrong and
> reiterates false information.......
>
> You may want to learn about bi-directional amplifiers...... They not only
> make and sell em, but they make and sell em in packages you can buy
> online...
> While not the only one, here's a link I happen to have handy...http://www.cellantenna.com/repeater/...anwireless.htm



Woa. Peter Pan. Why so insulting? Be nice. You don't need to call
my answer junk. It's far better manners to clarify or correct
specifics or ask for clarification.

As far a bi-directional amplifiers, I know that you are enamored of
pricey cell phone solutions, I've seen you suggest such in the past
when a $50-$100 client adapter would do.

On to your link - from what I can tell, an amplifier is not a
repeater in any sense. An amplifier is....an amplifier! And being a
"bidirectional amplifier" even with an antenna included, thus
combined, as they suggested, with another $300 amp + antenna, will
still not make a repeater without radios. OK. Great. Buy two
wireless radios too. But even for $7-800 this would still not be a
repeater, it would be a (illegal?) long distance wireless ethernet
bridge. Excellent solution for extreme long range.

The OP is considering a simple repeater to get wifi around her
house. The signal is already strong enough, just needs to repeat
it. Check out the question.

Steve

I appreciate a civil tone. Obviously my wording confused you too. I
should have taken more time with my answer.


On Jan 6, 9:36 am, DTC <m...@nothingtoseehere.zzx> wrote:
> seaweedsteve wrote:
> > Hi. First of all, there is no sending or receiving at the base unless
> > it has no visible antenna. Standard repeaters are just one radio that
> > receives, holds and then repeats. They do everything thru their
> > antenna.
>
> That makes no sense at all. Actually, its incorrect information.

I agree I was unclear, and it's described in non-professional terms.

> Whether or not an antenna is visible is a moot point as some devices
> have built in antennas inside the weather proof enclosure. The ONLY
> thing that does anything "through the antenna(s)" would be a passive
> repeater - nothing more than two antennas connected back to back and
> pointing in different directions.

Are you saying that the signal does not pass through the antenna?

Of course, no radio works without an antenna and when I say it won't
go thru the base unless there is no antenna, I mean that if there is
no visible antenna then it's internal. I was thinking of the airpot
express, which I believe works as a repeater. Anyway, it's poorly
described, especially to a pro.

>
> I don't know what a "standard repeater" is, but I do know what
> "store and forward" and "full duplex" repeaters are.
>
Yes, I used standard is short for "standard consumer item as found in
retail stores". That's what consumers see. The OP is not a
professional or experienced if you check out her question. Most
likely she is going to buy her devices in Best Buy or CompUSA ,Fry's
etc.

I was trying to speak in non-tech terms. Again, it's hard to answer a
beginner and please a tech. Most techs talk in prospeak and just let
the beginners flounder. I often end up explaining things to non-techs
and generally they seem to appreciate and understand better with
simple terms. Not as precise, of course.

> Consumer grade "repeaters" receive a bunch of packets, turn off the
> receiver and turn on the transmitter , then send the packets back out
> on the same channel/frequency (that's a simple over simplification,
> of course) and that means your throughput is halved. And they have just
> one omni-directional antennas. This is the same general idea behind
> a mesh set up.


>
> A "real" repeater has two actual radio units and can send and receive
> at the same time. It may have two direction antennas or a direction
> and an omni, it all depends on the application. We often use two
> back to back boxes with no visible antennas to repeat a signal over
> a hill or to increase range.

Yes, that is the kind of repeater I'm setting up now. Though it's an
inexpensive homemade job. I put a linksys WRT54G (running DD-WRT) in
a Rootenna box up on a pole (above the trees) facing the gateway
router/AP. Then I ran a cable to another WRT54G with an omni placed
to cover two houses. Total gear cost maybe: $200. Actually far less
as they already had the two linksys laying around.

Rootennas are neat and efficient compared to an antenna/cable combo
Plus it allowed me to place it in an ideal spot somewhat distant from
the houses without buying another box too.

Steve









Sorr

On Jan 6, 10:15 am, DanS <t.h.i.s.n.t.h....@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t>
wrote:
> For $150 from TigerDirect, you can buy an Engenious outdoor all-in-one b/g
> bridge. All in one means the unit has an integrated antenna and utilizes
> POE (power over ethernet) so from wherever the unit is installed outside,
> the only wire run is a CAT5 eth cable and not messing with coax and rf
> connectors and such. This particular product has a 'Client Bridge' mode.
> This means that it would act as a client to connect to an AP, just as any
> laptop or desktop 802.x adapter would. You could use this mode to connect
> to your parents AP.

That Engenius EOC looks like a great solution, great price. I will
remember that one. I suppose that the one advantage of a rootenna+
Linksy/Buffalo/whatever setup is being about to swap out the innards
with whatever bridge-mode device is at hand instead of being tied to
buying a specific replacement.

Steve

seaweedsteve <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:1cd36388-c23b-487c-97be-(E-Mail Removed):

> On Jan 6, 10:15 am, DanS <t.h.i.s.n.t.h....@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t>
> wrote:
>> For $150 from TigerDirect, you can buy an Engenious outdoor
>> all-in-one b/g bridge. All in one means the unit has an integrated
>> antenna and utilizes POE (power over ethernet) so from wherever the
>> unit is installed outside, the only wire run is a CAT5 eth cable and
>> not messing with coax and rf connectors and such. This particular
>> product has a 'Client Bridge' mode. This means that it would act as a
>> client to connect to an AP, just as any laptop or desktop 802.x
>> adapter would. You could use this mode to connect to your parents AP.
>
> That Engenius EOC looks like a great solution, great price. I will
> remember that one. I suppose that the one advantage of a rootenna+
> Linksy/Buffalo/whatever setup is being about to swap out the innards
> with whatever bridge-mode device is at hand instead of being tied to
> buying a specific replacement.
>
> Steve

The only drawback I have seen in the EOC gear is that it is a bridge ONLY.
It can be an AP, or a client bridge, but it has no NAT features.

A GIANT mistake, if you ask me. But if what you need is a bridge and not a
rtr, it's a pretty good deal.

On Jan 4, 5:59 pm, Venus <Venus.32o...@no-mx.wirelessforums.org>
wrote:
> I'd like to get an outdoor directional antenna facing my parents house
> (2 houses away), and rebroadcast their signal in my house. I’ve
> been able to connect to their network with a directional antenna
> connected to a network card and aiming it out a window but I want to be
> able to move around and after replacing my windows with Low-E my signal
> is gone. Do you know if repeaters collect signals through their antenna
> and repeat them through their base, or do they collect and repeat the
> signal through their antenna only?
>
> I’d like to put an outdoor antenna dish to get my parents signal,
> carry it down to the base unit 2 floors below and rebroadcast it. The
> base unit needs to know what I do, get that signal and broadcast it to
> my parents house. Do you know if repeaters both send/receive only
> through their antenna or, do they receive/send through both their
> antenna and base?
>
> Hope I explained that well. Jennifer
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> View this thread:http://www.wirelessforums.org/showth...lessforums.org

Sorry for the degeneration into squabbles and such. And sorry if my
original answer was hasty and confusing.

I hope you can get a decent answer out of this thread. What Dan S
said is good advice. Read it carefully, as that's the ticket for a
good long-term solution. With a cheap wireless router thrown in, it
will cost about $200 or so.

If you want to go cheaper then you could try sticking a USB wifi
adapter out the window (protect it from elements) with a long USB
extension cable running into your house. 15' is the max for USB
passive extension cables. Won't give you roaming, but you will have a
connection inside.

This one has been recommended as a good USB adapter for extending your
range: http://www.gohawking.com/store/produ...roducts_id=140

Again, the best solution is probably what Dan S suggested.

And yes, you could buy a standard consumer repeater product as sold by
Linksys and others at your local store, and it might work, but it will
not be weatherized or come with a directional antenna. Generally, it
must be the same brand as the router your parents have and your wifi
security may not work right. You can always try it from a store with
a good return policy....

Cheers,
Steve