Remote video surveillance over ADSL

Hi,

I am planning to set up a surveillance system for a small warehouse,
comprising of several video cameras and some high-res stills cameras,
with video/stills being retrievable via a www server.

No webcams as these use up huge ADSL bandwidth. The ADSL will be low
cost 256/512 with one fixed IP to support a web server.

The video cameras would need to be low-light (hard to quantify but
basically low indoor domestic levels) which rules out the cheap
(sub-£300) webcams. I've played with a few (e.g. Axis 205) and they
really are poor. I have a choice of using conventional video cameras
(some of which are available down to 0.01 lux especially if B&W), or
ethernet or wireless connected ones. But sometimes the light level
will be almost sunlight.

None of the wireless ones I've seen have any security so I am
reluctant to use them because anyone with half a brain could easily do
a DOS attack on them. Running ethernet is a hassle but with wireless
ones one would still need to run power to each one...

The stills cameras could be consumer grade ~ 5 megapixel jobs,
connected via USB - is that possible with any of them?

I will also need to record video (can be low frame rates) for the past
2 weeks. A big hard drive in a PC...

One nice feature would be to detect movement, and then transmit jpeg
images by email, say every 10 seconds, until movement stops.

A nice but probably hard feature would be auto fallback to GPRS (for
the jpeg email transmission) if somebody cuts the BT cable.

Obviously the system itself will be in a sturdy box with a UPS inside.

Can anyone offer comments/suggestions on this? I've seen various off
the shelf systems but nothing quite what I want. I also don't want to
spend many thousands on it; I know what the parts cost.


Peter.
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"Peter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Can anyone offer comments/suggestions on this? I've seen various off
> the shelf systems but nothing quite what I want. I also don't want to
> spend many thousands on it; I know what the parts cost.

For a quality (not cheap) product have a look at
http://www.dedicatedmicros.com/uk/pr...?product_id=41 For
cheaper stuff try www.hhenrys.co.uk

Paul

Paul G wrote:
> "Peter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>Can anyone offer comments/suggestions on this? I've seen various off
>>the shelf systems but nothing quite what I want. I also don't want to
>>spend many thousands on it; I know what the parts cost.
>
>
> For a quality (not cheap) product have a look at
> http://www.dedicatedmicros.com/uk/pr...?product_id=41 For
> cheaper stuff try www.hhenrys.co.uk
>
> Paul
>
>

Not only do you have to get the correct camera, also be very wary of
security over the internet. Axis cameras have been vulnerable to a url
bug whereby an extra '\' in the url can give admin access in seconds.
Others can be searched for in Google and full control gained - try
pasting these search strings in Google for examples:

intitle:liveapplet inurl:LvAppl
inurl:"ViewerFrame?Mode="
intitle:snc-rz30 inurl:home/
intitle:"Live View / - AXIS"

I like checking out the dancefloor at Bo's Live Saloon in Alice Springs
- Great fun at about 2pm uk time - see if you can find the dancefloorwebcam!

But seriously - dont allow the buggers in!

johnydeath <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote

>Not only do you have to get the correct camera, also be very wary of
>security over the internet. Axis cameras have been vulnerable to a url
>bug whereby an extra '\' in the url can give admin access in seconds.
>Others can be searched for in Google and full control gained - try
>pasting these search strings in Google for examples:
>
>intitle:liveapplet inurl:LvAppl
>inurl:"ViewerFrame?Mode="
>intitle:snc-rz30 inurl:home/
>intitle:"Live View / - AXIS"

That's really funny - where does one paste the strings into? I tried
pasting them into the google advanced search (4 lines available) but
it found no matches.

>I like checking out the dancefloor at Bo's Live Saloon in Alice Springs
>- Great fun at about 2pm uk time - see if you can find the dancefloorwebcam!
>
>But seriously - dont allow the buggers in!

Presumably if the website is passworded (it will be on a unix server)
then google (or anyone else) can't get in to find what's on it.

Peter wrote:
> johnydeath <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>
>
>>Not only do you have to get the correct camera, also be very wary of
>>security over the internet. Axis cameras have been vulnerable to a url
>>bug whereby an extra '\' in the url can give admin access in seconds.
>>Others can be searched for in Google and full control gained - try
>>pasting these search strings in Google for examples:
>>
>>intitle:liveapplet inurl:LvAppl
>>inurl:"ViewerFrame?Mode="
>>intitle:snc-rz30 inurl:home/
>>intitle:"Live View / - AXIS"
>
>
> That's really funny - where does one paste the strings into? I tried
> pasting them into the google advanced search (4 lines available) but
> it found no matches.
>
>
>>I like checking out the dancefloor at Bo's Live Saloon in Alice Springs
>>- Great fun at about 2pm uk time - see if you can find the dancefloorwebcam!
>>
>>But seriously - dont allow the buggers in!
>
>
> Presumably if the website is passworded (it will be on a unix server)
> then google (or anyone else) can't get in to find what's on it.
>
>

But that it the point - they are not passworded and allow full control
of the camera inc zoom & pan. Some are intentionally public accessible
but there are a hell of a lot that are not.

I've just tried the stings again - just cut and paste into the main
Google search and they all work for me.

What people also do not realise is that some of these cameras are
mini-pcs - you can access them and use them as a stepping stone for
infiltration into their internal networks. Scary.

johnydeath <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote

>I've just tried the stings again - just cut and paste into the main
>Google search and they all work for me.

OK, I didn't realise you meant pasting one of the four strings at a
time - amazing results

>What people also do not realise is that some of these cameras are
>mini-pcs - you can access them and use them as a stepping stone for
>infiltration into their internal networks. Scary.

Only if you can log into the website that's hosting them, surely?

I can even set up a VPN if need be and give the dial-up details to the
5 or so people who would have the right to see the stuff.


Peter.
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"Peter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...

> The video cameras would need to be low-light (hard to quantify but
> basically low indoor domestic levels) which rules out the cheap
> (sub-£300) webcams. I've played with a few (e.g. Axis 205) and they
> really are poor. I have a choice of using conventional video cameras
> (some of which are available down to 0.01 lux especially if B&W), or
> ethernet or wireless connected ones. But sometimes the light level
> will be almost sunlight.

Even the £1000 Axis cameras are useless after dark, not even good in low
domestic lighting. However their latest servers are good so a better
solution is to run an analogue camera into a server.

I run six such systems, take a look at www.sld.co.uk who have pdfs specs,
user manuals and prices on line. An EDC-141 camera can see better in the
dark than I can.

> I will also need to record video (can be low frame rates) for the past
> 2 weeks. A big hard drive in a PC..

I found it simpler and more reliable to use a dedicated hard disc recorder.

> One nice feature would be to detect movement, and then transmit jpeg
> images by email, say every 10 seconds, until movement stops.

Easy enough with the Axis server or the dedicated recorder.

> Can anyone offer comments/suggestions on this? I've seen various off
> the shelf systems but nothing quite what I want. I also don't want to
> spend many thousands on it; I know what the parts cost.

Expect to spend several. :-(
--
Malcolm

"Malcolm Knight." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote

>Even the £1000 Axis cameras are useless after dark, not even good in low
>domestic lighting. However their latest servers are good so a better
>solution is to run an analogue camera into a server.

Why do you think this is? Surely all are CCD cameras anyway, and the
ethernet versions just have the camcorder-type bits in them (video
ADC, compression) and a www server.


Peter.
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"Peter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Malcolm Knight." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>
> >Even the £1000 Axis cameras are useless after dark, not even good in low
> >domestic lighting. However their latest servers are good so a better
> >solution is to run an analogue camera into a server.
>
> Why do you think this is? Surely all are CCD cameras anyway, and the
> ethernet versions just have the camcorder-type bits in them (video
> ADC, compression) and a www server.

There is a wide choice of cameras but few with inbuilt servers so you have a
much wider choice of mix and match if you buy separate units.

Why those with inbuilt servers all appear to be less good than those without
I've no idea. I only know that I own two Axis camera/servers and six
ordinary cameras and there is simply no comparison. One of the Axis will be
replaced next month with an IR sensitive auto B-W/Colour switching analogue
camera plus a separate server. The total cost will be almost exactly the
same as an Axis 2420 camera/server but I know the latter is totally
outclassed for low light work. Not even remotely similar. I merely wanted to
stop you wasting as much money as I did in the early days.
..--
Malcolm

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 05:55:34 +0100, (E-Mail Removed) (Peter) wrote:

>
>johnydeath <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>
>>intitle:liveapplet inurl:LvAppl
>>inurl:"ViewerFrame?Mode="
>>intitle:snc-rz30 inurl:home/
>>intitle:"Live View / - AXIS"
>
>That's really funny - where does one paste the strings into?

just put them into an ordinary google search and you'll get dozens of
hits.

>>But seriously - dont allow the buggers in!
>
>Presumably if the website is passworded (it will be on a unix server)
>then google (or anyone else) can't get in to find what's on it.

The webcam admin often doesn't run on the http port, and passwording
the website won't help.