Re-numbering a broadband line.

Guys,

I think I know the answer to this one, but just in case there's a
glimmer of hope...

My boss is moving to a separate building down the road and wants to take
his direct phone and fax lines with him. I have just discovered that our
office's ADSL service (BT Business) comes in on his private voice line.

Is there any hope that BT can allocate a new number to the existing
(ADSL enabled line) and move the current number to the new location
without buggering up the ADSL service or requiring a cease and
re-provide and us losing service for 5-odd days and ending up with a
completely different set of IP addresses (which will be a REAL pain).

Technically I cannot see any problem with doing this if there was a
documented procedure for it, but it's bound to be beyond BT's ability???

On 28 Oct 2006, linker3000 wrote:

>Is there any hope that BT can allocate a new number to the existing
>(ADSL enabled line) and move the current number to the new location
>without buggering up the ADSL service or requiring a cease and
>re-provide and us losing service for 5-odd days and ending up with a
>completely different set of IP addresses (which will be a REAL pain).

Seems really unlikely you'll get it sorted out easily. I'd get a new
(extra?) phone line installed, get it set up with another ISP (such
as A+A, who'd be able to provide the same IP addresses in future,
for continuity, if ever there was a further 'move') and run the two
ADSL lines in parallel for a number of days... That way you're sure
ADSL is working on the new line, can move servers and change DNS to
reflect the new IP addresses at will, and then move the existing
number to a separate line in the new location, ceasing ADSL and
closing the BT internet account. Yes, it's extra cost, but it
does ensure you know both locations have ADSL working when you
come to move your servers... and if you switch ISP, you will
probably never look back...

"NoNeedToKnow" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On 28 Oct 2006, linker3000 wrote:
>
>>Is there any hope that BT can allocate a new number to the existing
>>(ADSL enabled line) and move the current number to the new location
>>without buggering up the ADSL service or requiring a cease and
>>re-provide and us losing service for 5-odd days and ending up with a
>>completely different set of IP addresses (which will be a REAL pain).
>
> Seems really unlikely you'll get it sorted out easily. I'd get a new
> (extra?) phone line installed, get it set up with another ISP (such
> as A+A, who'd be able to provide the same IP addresses in future,
> for continuity, if ever there was a further 'move') and run the two
> ADSL lines in parallel for a number of days... That way you're sure
> ADSL is working on the new line, can move servers and change DNS to
> reflect the new IP addresses at will, and then move the existing
> number to a separate line in the new location, ceasing ADSL and
> closing the BT internet account. Yes, it's extra cost, but it
> does ensure you know both locations have ADSL working when you
> come to move your servers... and if you switch ISP, you will
> probably never look back...

I echo that - however ...

Since this is a business, you probably have an account manager. Get the
account manager to come to your office so you can explain to him in person
what it is you want to achieve. Suggest that he brings a colleague that is
expert in broadband connections. Ask him whether it is possible. If he
agrees that it is, make it very clear to him that he has to take personal
responsibility for ensuring that the reconfiguration takes place without
problems. Explain that you know where he he lives, and that you will be
round to break his legs if he fails.

I do know of one instance where a BT business broadband customer had his
ADSL service relocated because of an office move. It was ceased at midday
at one location, and should have been working before the close of business
on the same day at another location. It was only about 12 hours late; it was
working at 9am the following morning.

--
Graham

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 00:22:15 +0100, linker3000
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Guys,
>
>I think I know the answer to this one, but just in case there's a
>glimmer of hope...
>
>My boss is moving to a separate building down the road and wants to take
>his direct phone and fax lines with him. I have just discovered that our
>office's ADSL service (BT Business) comes in on his private voice line.
>
>Is there any hope that BT can allocate a new number to the existing
>(ADSL enabled line) and move the current number to the new location
>without buggering up the ADSL service or requiring a cease and
>re-provide and us losing service for 5-odd days and ending up with a
>completely different set of IP addresses (which will be a REAL pain).
>
>Technically I cannot see any problem with doing this if there was a
>documented procedure for it, but it's bound to be beyond BT's ability???

A renumber of a BT line does not involve a stop / start therefore the
broadband will continue on the existing line no matter what the line
is renumbered to. All you have to do is inform your ISP of the new
number before it switches over so they can update their records

jim

jim <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote

>A renumber of a BT line does not involve a stop / start therefore the
>broadband will continue on the existing line no matter what the line
>is renumbered to. All you have to do is inform your ISP of the new
>number before it switches over so they can update their records

Not sure that is correct.

In my experience, a renumber cuts off the existing ISP.

In fact, asking BT to renumber a line is the only way to cut off an
ISP with whom you have a dispute, and who (under the terms which BT
offers to ISPs) is able to hog the line indefinitely. I had a BT man
explain this to me; short of the ISP going bust, BT will not release
the line to another ISP, without the original ISP's consent. This is
to prevent people not paying their ISP's bill and then just changing
to a new ISP. Unfortunately, these terms enable crooked ISPs to screw
customers through a dispute, while preventing them going elsewhere.

Unless you ask BT to renumber the line; then the old ISP gets cut off
and you can get service from a new one It's actually a little
complicated, since the previous ISP still "owns" a part of the line to
BT, so BT have to do a bit of a clean-up, but it works. Takes a few
days.

"linker3000" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:454294bd$0$2443$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Guys,
>
> I think I know the answer to this one, but just in case there's a glimmer
> of hope...
>
> My boss is moving to a separate building down the road and wants to take
> his direct phone and fax lines with him. I have just discovered that our
> office's ADSL service (BT Business) comes in on his private voice line.
>
> Is there any hope that BT can allocate a new number to the existing (ADSL
> enabled line) and move the current number to the new location without
> buggering up the ADSL service or requiring a cease and re-provide and us
> losing service for 5-odd days and ending up with a completely different
> set of IP addresses (which will be a REAL pain).
>
> Technically I cannot see any problem with doing this if there was a
> documented procedure for it, but it's bound to be beyond BT's ability???

It can be done, and is frequently done without any problems at all.
Only problem is it is a non-standard type of order, which can puzzle some
issuers as they have never had to do it before. The old hands will have no
problem.

The knack is to ask for the right thing using BT jargon if you can.
In this case I would suggest the following:
1: Renumber PSTN line <insert number> to a New number. - Note: ADSL
Service To Be retained. DO NOT Issue a STOP/START.
2: Provide a New PSTN Line at <address> - and ask Number Management to
allocate <insert number from 1> when released by above job.
3: Place both orders in a CSS Project.
If you have any issues with the above, please refer to your Quality Coach /
Line Manager for further advice.

Alternative would be to have the 'New' line installed with a 'New' PSTN
number.
When this is in order 2 renumbers - one on the ADSL line (as in 1 above) and
One on the New line (using numer from 1).
This will cost a bit more - renumber charge around £38 each? Not sure would
need to check - but there is less danger of an inadvertent Stop/Start being
issued which would stand a greater chance of knocking the aDSL off. Also
means the PSTN can be installed early so its tested and ready.

Oh, and as said in another Post, TELL the ISP what is going on. They get a
report from BT Wholesale advising if they are ceasing any of their ADSL
services due to Stops/Ceases, etc. If they are any god they will look out
for these and can request a cancellation of the cease if they are quick of
the mark.

HTH

J

"Graham" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:ehv862$983$1$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "NoNeedToKnow" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> On 28 Oct 2006, linker3000 wrote:
>>
>>>Is there any hope that BT can allocate a new number to the existing
>>>(ADSL enabled line) and move the current number to the new location
>>>without buggering up the ADSL service or requiring a cease and
>>>re-provide and us losing service for 5-odd days and ending up with a
>>>completely different set of IP addresses (which will be a REAL pain).
>>
>> Seems really unlikely you'll get it sorted out easily. I'd get a new
>> (extra?) phone line installed, get it set up with another ISP (such
>> as A+A, who'd be able to provide the same IP addresses in future,
>> for continuity, if ever there was a further 'move') and run the two
>> ADSL lines in parallel for a number of days... That way you're sure
>> ADSL is working on the new line, can move servers and change DNS to
>> reflect the new IP addresses at will, and then move the existing
>> number to a separate line in the new location, ceasing ADSL and
>> closing the BT internet account. Yes, it's extra cost, but it
>> does ensure you know both locations have ADSL working when you
>> come to move your servers... and if you switch ISP, you will
>> probably never look back...
>
> I echo that - however ...
>
> Since this is a business, you probably have an account manager. Get the
> account manager to come to your office so you can explain to him in person
> what it is you want to achieve. Suggest that he brings a colleague that
> is expert in broadband connections. Ask him whether it is possible. If
> he agrees that it is, make it very clear to him that he has to take
> personal responsibility for ensuring that the reconfiguration takes place
> without problems. Explain that you know where he he lives, and that you
> will be round to break his legs if he fails.
>
> I do know of one instance where a BT business broadband customer had his
> ADSL service relocated because of an office move. It was ceased at midday
> at one location, and should have been working before the close of business
> on the same day at another location. It was only about 12 hours late; it
> was working at 9am the following morning.
>
> --
> Graham
>

Not sure I would agree with this.
1- Account Managers do not generally understand the processes behind these
types of order.
2- System Specialist are in the same type of boat. They know how the system
its self works, what sort of applications can run, etc, etc, but generally
have no idea of the order entry aspects (ie how the BT people put it on to
the back end systems for fulfilment).
3- You are very unlikely to get a Order Entry Team Manager or Member to
attend a customer meeting. There are very few of then that will understand
or deal with this type of order, and its not a useful use of their time to
visit customers to discuss simple orders like this.
4- The Account Manager / Systems Specialist will have little direct control
over the actual work. Because of the Undertakings BT has agreed to under
the telecommunications Strategic review, they cannot go direct to the
suppliers, but must jump through the same hoops as everyone else to ensure
compliance.

See my other post for my suggestion.

J
All comments are my own opinion and view, and should not be taken as an
official comment or policy from any organisation.

"Peter" <occassionally-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> jim <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>
>>A renumber of a BT line does not involve a stop / start therefore the
>>broadband will continue on the existing line no matter what the line
>>is renumbered to. All you have to do is inform your ISP of the new
>>number before it switches over so they can update their records
>
> Not sure that is correct.
>
> In my experience, a renumber cuts off the existing ISP.
>
> In fact, asking BT to renumber a line is the only way to cut off an
> ISP with whom you have a dispute, and who (under the terms which BT
> offers to ISPs) is able to hog the line indefinitely. I had a BT man
> explain this to me; short of the ISP going bust, BT will not release
> the line to another ISP, without the original ISP's consent. This is
> to prevent people not paying their ISP's bill and then just changing
> to a new ISP. Unfortunately, these terms enable crooked ISPs to screw
> customers through a dispute, while preventing them going elsewhere.
>
> Unless you ask BT to renumber the line; then the old ISP gets cut off
> and you can get service from a new one It's actually a little
> complicated, since the previous ISP still "owns" a part of the line to
> BT, so BT have to do a bit of a clean-up, but it works. Takes a few
> days.

I do not agree with this view. From experience, I know that changing PSTN
number does not generally trigger an order to cease the aDSL service.
It can do, but usually because other circumstances come into play. I have
seem cases where a line has been renumber multiple times to try and force
the aDSL off, but has achieved nothing.

A more efective, but slightly less convenient way to force an aDSL cease
from an ISP is to temporarily stop the line, then restart with a new account
number. Not ideal, but has been used in the past when options were becoming
short.

J
All comments are my own opinion and view, and should not be taken as an
official comment or policy from any organisation.

"Maneate" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote

>I do not agree with this view. From experience, I know that changing PSTN
>number does not generally trigger an order to cease the aDSL service.
>It can do, but usually because other circumstances come into play. I have
>seem cases where a line has been renumber multiple times to try and force
>the aDSL off, but has achieved nothing.
>
>A more efective, but slightly less convenient way to force an aDSL cease
>from an ISP is to temporarily stop the line, then restart with a new account
>number. Not ideal, but has been used in the past when options were becoming
>short.

I tend to agree; however BT told me that renumbering does amount to
setting up a new line anyway. The cost seems to be identical.

I had to do this a year ago, when a well known "business award
winning" ISP (name starting with a "C") stopped communicating and had
to be kicked off the premises

"Peter" <occassionally-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Maneate" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>
>>I do not agree with this view. From experience, I know that changing PSTN
>>number does not generally trigger an order to cease the aDSL service.
>>It can do, but usually because other circumstances come into play. I have
>>seem cases where a line has been renumber multiple times to try and force
>>the aDSL off, but has achieved nothing.
>>
>>A more efective, but slightly less convenient way to force an aDSL cease
>>from an ISP is to temporarily stop the line, then restart with a new
>>account
>>number. Not ideal, but has been used in the past when options were
>>becoming
>>short.
>
> I tend to agree; however BT told me that renumbering does amount to
> setting up a new line anyway. The cost seems to be identical.
>
> I had to do this a year ago, when a well known "business award
> winning" ISP (name starting with a "C") stopped communicating and had
> to be kicked off the premises

To be honest, I work for BT and have a lot to do with BT Broadband, but dont
actually work in BT Broadband if you see what I mean, hence my comments.
A renumber should not be the cost of a new line. Obviously something odd
going on there.

J

--
All comments, views and opinions expressed are entirely my own.
No inference should be made or drawn that they represent the
Policy of any organisation and should not be taken as such.