Re: Netgear WG11T - attaching external antenna - there must be a way!

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 10:12:15 +0200, "Sybrand Strauss"
<sybrand2004_at_alienoverlords_dot_co_dot_za@ignor ethis.com> wrote:

>I have gotten it into my head to attach and external antenna to the cardbus
>wg511t - but don't have a clue how.

WG511T.

>If you look at the picture I attached to this mail (also @
>http://www.alienoverlords.com/sybran...shot_small.JPG) -
>you'll see there are two routes to follow.

Nice photo.

>1'st one, the obvious one, has a nice little SMA socket - that's not the
>route to follow. The SMA connector is there for testing purposes only - I
>don't want to go use a testing thing permanently - and getting pigtails for
>it... well... I can't find any.

It's not an SMA connector. It's a Hirose u-FL, also made by I.PAX as
an MHF connector.
http://www.hirose.co.uk/productreleases/ufl.htm
http://www.hirose-connectors.com/products/U.FL_5.htm
They are carried by Fab-Corp (see bottom of pigtail page).
http://www.fab-corp.com/K1.htm
Also see:
http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/PigTail

>That leaves the other route - You'll see there are four big blobs of solder,
>followed by a resistor, and then the antenna.

It's not a resistor. It's a cazapitor. I'm a bit worried about
connecting an antenna to the u-FL coax connector. There *MIGHT* be
some DC on it, which will cause a problem if the antenna is of the DC
grounded type (i.e. patch). Measure the DC voltage across the coax
connector with a volts-guesser. If there is any, cut the trace
leading to the connector an add an additional chip cazapitor. My
guess(tm) is about 2pf should work. If there's no DC, do nothing.

>Now somewhere there lies the
>answer - but being an idiot with no engineering degree - I don't know what
>to do.

There are plenty of idiots with engineering degrees.

>Does anyone have advice/links/slander? Links to other pcmcia cards that have
>been modded? Anything?

I would go with the Hirose connector first. If that doesn't play,
remove the connector, remove the capacitor, and solder a pigtail coax
to the board. Use the 4 ground pins around the connector for shield
ground. Keep the exposed center conductor VERY VERY VERY short.

I use semi-rigid .141 copper coax cable with SMA connectors on the
other end (because I have a large pile of them). Semi-rigid coax is
MUCH easier to deal with the flexible braid coax, but rather stiff.
Losses with semi-rigid (0.2dB/ft) are much better than flex braid
coax.

This may look ugly, but it's the right way to do it:
http://www.wireless.org.au/~jhecker/pigtail/
Lots of shielding and absolutely no exposed (unshielded) center
conductor).

This is pure butchery. Far too sloppy.
http://www.stanford.edu/group/denny/wireless.htm

This is good. Short leads are important.
http://www.ivor.it/wireless/pigtail.htm

Your example of:
http://home.att.net/~jjmorrissiey/JMorrissiey.html
is truely disgusting. Anything that sloppy is not going to work very
well.

Not good. Long exposed leads and sloppy soldering.
http://deimos.homelinux.org/wireless/mod_dwl650+/

Here's one that comes with a hidden MMCX connector.
http://www.geocities.com/james3pa/DWL650.html

If you prefer a connector, it might be possible to remove the u-FL
connector and replace it with an MMCX, SMC, or other small RF
connector for which a pigtail is available.

Oh yeah. Welcome to Learn By Destroying(tm). Practice soldering
before you attack.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:01:36 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Not good. Long exposed leads and sloppy soldering.
> http://deimos.homelinux.org/wireless/mod_dwl650+/

Ooops. The above is correct. The page paints slowly and I didn't
wait for it to finish and didn't notice how it was done. I'm still
not thrilled with the soldering but it's as good as can be done under
the circumstances. I would have bypassed or disarmed the diversity
switch IC, simply disarming the other antenna would work just as well.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

This of course doesn't help your situation, but I have suggested
several times that laptop users get a USB wireless adapter. The main
reason being that with the usb device, you can move the adapter around
for better reception.

For example:
http://www.linksys.com/products/prod...id=36&prid=578

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:19:25 +0200, "Sybrand Strauss"
<sybrand2004_at_alienoverlords_dot_co_dot_za@ignor ethis.com> wrote:

>Wow, thanks, lots of advice.

Guilty. Quantity is a great replacement for quality.

>> It's not an SMA connector. It's a Hirose u-FL, also made by I.PAX as
>> an MHF connector.
>
>It's not a U.FL according to
>http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/SmaWg511
>
>quote: " *The connector on the card is not an U.FL connector, it seems to be
>a murata connector with integrated switch (SWD - Type), as far as I know
>there are no cables for this connector only a measurement probe.
>see http://www.murata.com/catalog/o30e5.pdf "

Give me a while to chew on this, but methink the Seatle Wireless
article refers to a different card mutation with a different
connector. The Murata SWD has a very obvious normally closed switch
used to disconnect the antenna during testing. Your photos don't have
that. I wanna compare outline drawings of the u-FL and SWD
connectors. They look very similar, but may not be identical. Note
that there are various "styles" of u-FL connectors as shown in:
http://www.hirose.co.jp/cataloge_hp/e32119372.pdf

Here's a real SWD connector on a Linksys WPC11.
http://jeffl.ihwy.com/linksys/wpc11/ls-pcmcia-2.jpg (127KB)
Note that it's labelled as a switch (SW1).

>Have a look at these two images (also @
>http://www.alienoverlords.com/sybran...11T_notufl.JPG and
>http://www.alienoverlords.com/sybran...WGT624_ufl.JPG)

Nice photos. How did you get the depth of field to come out so nice?
Every time I try an angled shot like those with my camera (Canon A70),
it appears at least partially out of focus.

Those sure look like Hirose u-FL to me.

>Compared to the image @ http://www.hirose.co.uk/productreleases/ufl.htm
>(http://www.hirose.co.uk/images/products/pr_ufl_lrg.jpg) she ain't no ufl
>connector. Or am I missing the point, and there's more than one type?

I compared and it looks close enough. Give me a while to grab the
drawings and be sure.

>Okay - why remove the capacitor? (remember, my engineering goes as far as
>opening up things and breaking them)

The capacitor leads to the antenna, which you don't want in the
circuit when using the coax connector and pigtail. The SWD connector
does that with a built in switch. You do it with an Xacto knife
and/or soldering iron.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:58:15 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>>Have a look at these two images (also @
>>http://www.alienoverlords.com/sybran...11T_notufl.JPG and
>>http://www.alienoverlords.com/sybran...WGT624_ufl.JPG)

Well, here's one person that has an SMC2635W with what certainly looks
like a Hirose u-FL connector. Yet, someone purchased a u-FL pigtail
that doesn't fit. See:
http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/MS_2d156
http://ajo.thinknerd.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4
Compare your photo with these:
http://www.latinsud.com/adm8211/conector1.jpg
http://www.latinsud.com/adm8211/conector2.jpg

It appears that I can't be sure as to the connector identification
without actually trying varios mating plugs. This is not good.
More later...


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

> Well, here's one person that has an SMC2635W with what certainly looks
> like a Hirose u-FL connector. Yet, someone purchased a u-FL pigtail
> that doesn't fit. See:
> http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/MS_2d156
> http://ajo.thinknerd.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4
> Compare your photo with these:
> http://www.latinsud.com/adm8211/conector1.jpg
> http://www.latinsud.com/adm8211/conector2.jpg
>

Yip - that's the one on my WG511T - and it ain't no U.FL.

They look very different
Big difference:
U.FL (Ultra Small Surface Mount Coaxial Connector) = |_|_|
(http://www.hirose.co.jp/cataloge_hp/e32119372.pdf)
WG511T connector(?) (Subminiature Coaxial Switch) = |\ /|
(http://www.hirose.co.jp/cataloge_hp/e35801678.pdf)

U.FL has a thing pointing out the middle

Look - mystery or not - I'm going the soldering route. It's just a schlep
over here in South Africa, all the web sites selling the things are in the
U.S - and the shipping costs are ridiculous, so right now I'm phoning up and
scouring the local dealers to get cables & connectors etc. (gotta build an
antenna to test with!!)

> Here's a real SWD connector on a Linksys WPC11.
> http://jeffl.ihwy.com/linksys/wpc11/ls-pcmcia-2.jpg (127KB)
> Note that it's labelled as a switch (SW1).

The only difference appears to be the concave, cone like black stuff inside
the switch that is present in the WG511T - but very much missing in the
WPC11 - but then - you can go wrong looking at these pictures.

>
> >Have a look at these two images (also @
> >http://www.alienoverlords.com/sybran...11T_notufl.JPG and
> >http://www.alienoverlords.com/sybran...WGT624_ufl.JPG)
>
> Nice photos. How did you get the depth of field to come out so nice?
> Every time I try an angled shot like those with my camera (Canon A70),
> it appears at least partially out of focus.

I think the trick is to have your aperture as small as possible (my sony
DSC-V1 can only go down to 8 though), i.e. you aperture number (from F2.8
and down to F32 if you are lucky) must be big. Also keeping you ISO low
helps so it doesn't go all grainy. That increases you depth of focus. You
just need one helluva strong light, or a tripod so you can get a long enough
exposure. That said, I took WG511T_notufl.JPG - ISO100, F3.5 - so it being
in focus would basically be down to pure fluke.

"John ." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> This of course doesn't help your situation, but I have suggested
> several times that laptop users get a USB wireless adapter. The main
> reason being that with the usb device, you can move the adapter around
> for better reception.
>

Well... if only it were just about "move around for better reception" - I
want one of these attached to my laptop:
http://flakey.info/antenna/waveguide/

Although - had I know beforehand that I would have the wifi bug bite me, I'd
have gone this route: http://www.usbwifi.orcon.net.nz/

Sybrand Strauss <sybrand2004_at_alienoverlords_dot_co_dot_za@ignor ethis.com> wrote:

> Well... if only it were just about "move around for better reception" - I
> want one of these attached to my laptop:
> http://flakey.info/antenna/waveguide/

You can stick a mini-USB inside the can, and eliminate the expensive
and short cables.
http://www.rahul.net/dold/clarence/u...42-800x600.jpg

Bob Alston's Pages:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z38531089
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z19552089


--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5