Re: Need to extend LAN less than mile

since you don't have direct wiring between the locations,
you might think about wireless..... - x-posted to that newsgroup
continue at the bottom
--

Harvey wrote:
> I am not very familiar with all the terminology.
> I have two locations less than a mile apart in a rural area.
> I assume the phone company could (if I knew how/what to ask) make
> appropriate splices to give me two or more pair of copper between the
> two locations.
> Is that what a "leased line" is? Or does that go through the exchange?
>
> Assuming I could get this copper between the two points, how fast
> could I send data between the two?
> I have an ethernet lan on each end that I want to connect together.
> And of course :-) I want to do it for low cost.
>
> I would simply use the internet but there is no high speed available
> out there in rural Western Washington State.
>
> Thank you all very much,
> Harvey.

I have a friend near Randle WA - near Mt. St. Helens... no high speed either

anyway - what do you ultimately want to do ?
and why do you want the locations connected ?

On May 17, 6:08 pm, "ps56k" <pschuman_no_spam...@interserv.com> wrote:
> since you don't have direct wiring between the locations,
> you might think about wireless..... - x-posted to that newsgroup
> continue at the bottom
> --
>
>
>
> Harvey wrote:
> > I am not very familiar with all the terminology.
> > I have two locations less than a mile apart in a rural area.
> > I assume the phone company could (if I knew how/what to ask) make
> > appropriate splices to give me two or more pair of copper between the
> > two locations.
> > Is that what a "leased line" is? Or does that go through the exchange?
>
> > Assuming I could get this copper between the two points, how fast
> > could I send data between the two?
> > I have an ethernet lan on each end that I want to connect together.
> > And of course :-) I want to do it for low cost.
>
> > I would simply use the internet but there is no high speed available
> > out there in rural Western Washington State.
>
> > Thank you all very much,
> > Harvey.
>
> I have a friend near Randle WA - near Mt. St. Helens... no high speed either
>
> anyway - what do you ultimately want to do ?
> and why do you want the locations connected ?

It is for monitoring 5 cameras. The camera setup is in place and
working over the internet using dial up, but it is too slow. The
picture updates only about every 5 to 40 seconds. I assume that
internet traffic is the variable. Once every two seconds or faster
would be good.

What do you recommend for wireless through a fairly wooded area?

And again can the phone company provide a connection in the existing
buried wiring? They always have extra pairs available, right? Both
locations are on the same dead end road.

Thanks

On May 17, 6:08 pm, "ps56k" <pschuman_no_spam...@interserv.com> wrote:
> since you don't have direct wiring between the locations,
> you might think about wireless..... - x-posted to that newsgroup
> continue at the bottom
> --
>
>
>
> Harvey wrote:
> > I am not very familiar with all the terminology.
> > I have two locations less than a mile apart in a rural area.
> > I assume the phone company could (if I knew how/what to ask) make
> > appropriate splices to give me two or more pair of copper between the
> > two locations.
> > Is that what a "leased line" is? Or does that go through the exchange?
>
> > Assuming I could get this copper between the two points, how fast
> > could I send data between the two?
> > I have an ethernet lan on each end that I want to connect together.
> > And of course :-) I want to do it for low cost.
>
> > I would simply use the internet but there is no high speed available
> > out there in rural Western Washington State.
>
> > Thank you all very much,
> > Harvey.
>
> I have a friend near Randle WA - near Mt. St. Helens... no high speed either
>
> anyway - what do you ultimately want to do ?
> and why do you want the locations connected ?

It is for monitoring 5 cameras. The camera setup is in place and
working over the internet using dial up, but it is too slow. The
picture updates only about every 5 to 40 seconds. I assume that
internet traffic is the variable. Once every two seconds or faster
would be good.

What do you recommend for wireless through a fairly wooded area?

And again can the phone company provide a connection in the existing
buried wiring? They always have extra pairs available, right? Both
locations are on the same dead end road.

Thanks

Harvey wrote:
> On May 17, 6:08 pm, "ps56k" <pschuman_no_spam...@interserv.com> wrote:
>> since you don't have direct wiring between the locations,
>> you might think about wireless..... - x-posted to that newsgroup
>> continue at the bottom
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Harvey wrote:
>>> I am not very familiar with all the terminology.
>>> I have two locations less than a mile apart in a rural area.
>>> I assume the phone company could (if I knew how/what to ask) make
>>> appropriate splices to give me two or more pair of copper between
>>> the two locations.
>>> Is that what a "leased line" is? Or does that go through the
>>> exchange?
>>
>>> Assuming I could get this copper between the two points, how fast
>>> could I send data between the two?
>>> I have an ethernet lan on each end that I want to connect together.
>>> And of course :-) I want to do it for low cost.
>>
>>> I would simply use the internet but there is no high speed available
>>> out there in rural Western Washington State.
>>
>>> Thank you all very much,
>>> Harvey.
>>
>> I have a friend near Randle WA - near Mt. St. Helens... no high
>> speed either
>>
>> anyway - what do you ultimately want to do ?
>> and why do you want the locations connected ?
>
> It is for monitoring 5 cameras. The camera setup is in place and
> working over the internet using dial up, but it is too slow. The
> picture updates only about every 5 to 40 seconds. I assume that
> internet traffic is the variable. Once every two seconds or faster
> would be good.
>
> What do you recommend for wireless through a fairly wooded area?
>
> And again can the phone company provide a connection in the existing
> buried wiring? They always have extra pairs available, right? Both
> locations are on the same dead end road.
>

oops - wooded area - NG - the radio wave signals are absorbed by the
leaves.... (

Not sure what "wiring" might be available to you in this situation -
cheaply -
BTW - since you indicated that broadband - DSL, cable, ISDN are not avail in
your area
it might even be tough to get a "leased line" - and it will be cost
prohibitive...
A "leased line" is not just renting an extra pair of wires,
it actually is a datacom service that is configured, optimized, monitored,
and $$$.

And yes - they usually are a hub & spoke arrangement with say 2 points near
each other
actually going all the way back to the telco exchange for the "electronics"
portion.

Any other options ??
Is this on your property - is there a fence or other "path"
where you might be able to string some cable ?

On Sat, 17 May 2008 21:00:59 -0500, "ps56k"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>oops - wooded area - NG - the radio wave signals are absorbed by the
>leaves.... (

Some frequencies have problems going through water. 900MHz wireless
penetrates leaves (not trunks) quite nicely. Less than a mile is
easy. Worked great for Metricom (Ricochet). See:
<http://www.avalanwireless.com>
<http://www.vecima.com/rider.php>
<http://www.freewave.com>
<http://www.trangobroadband.com/wireless_products/m900s.shtml>
<http://www.streakwave.com/items.asp?Cc=CB-ODU-900MHz>
<http://www.ubnt.com/products/xr9.php>
and others. One catch is that the throughput is rather limited.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

ps56k wrote:
(snip)

> Not sure what "wiring" might be available to you in this
> situation - cheaply - BTW - since you indicated that
> broadband - DSL, cable, ISDN are not avail in
> your area it might even be tough to get a "leased line" -
> and it will be cost prohibitive...

> A "leased line" is not just renting an extra pair of wires,
> it actually is a datacom service that is configured,
> optimized, monitored, and $$$.

I believe in some cases you can buy (rent) a pair of wires
with no electronics in between. It is sometimes done for
alarm companies. It might be that it is harder than it
used to be, as phone companies want to be in the datacom
business. I know public schools that do it for their T1
lines instead of leasing T1 lines. (For schools close enough
to the district office or to other schools.) Libraries
might also be able to do it.

-- glen

Harvey wrote:
> On May 17, 6:08 pm, "ps56k" <pschuman_no_spam...@interserv.com> wrote:
>> since you don't have direct wiring between the locations,
>> you might think about wireless..... - x-posted to that newsgroup
>> continue at the bottom
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Harvey wrote:
>>> I am not very familiar with all the terminology.
>>> I have two locations less than a mile apart in a rural area.
>>> I assume the phone company could (if I knew how/what to ask) make
>>> appropriate splices to give me two or more pair of copper between the
>>> two locations.
>>> Is that what a "leased line" is? Or does that go through the exchange?
>>> Assuming I could get this copper between the two points, how fast
>>> could I send data between the two?
>>> I have an ethernet lan on each end that I want to connect together.
>>> And of course :-) I want to do it for low cost.
>>> I would simply use the internet but there is no high speed available
>>> out there in rural Western Washington State.
>>> Thank you all very much,
>>> Harvey.
>> I have a friend near Randle WA - near Mt. St. Helens... no high speed either
>>
>> anyway - what do you ultimately want to do ?
>> and why do you want the locations connected ?
>
> It is for monitoring 5 cameras. The camera setup is in place and
> working over the internet using dial up, but it is too slow. The
> picture updates only about every 5 to 40 seconds. I assume that
> internet traffic is the variable. Once every two seconds or faster
> would be good.
>
> What do you recommend for wireless through a fairly wooded area?
>
> And again can the phone company provide a connection in the existing
> buried wiring? They always have extra pairs available, right? Both
> locations are on the same dead end road.
>
> Thanks
You don't say how much less than a mile. If the phone company can
provide you with a leased line that is less than 1500 metres in length
to the location you want it may be worth looking at a "VDSL over
Ethernet" system, most seem to give you 15Mbs at that distance.
Most come as a master and slave combination.
http://www.eusso.com/product3/Ethernet%20Extender.htm

>> I am not very familiar with all the terminology.
>> I have two locations less than a mile apart in a rural area.
>> I assume the phone company could (if I knew how/what to ask) make
>> appropriate splices to give me two or more pair of copper between
>> the two locations.
>> Is that what a "leased line" is? Or does that go through the
>> exchange?
>>
>> Assuming I could get this copper between the two points, how fast
>> could I send data between the two?
>> I have an ethernet lan on each end that I want to connect together.
>> And of course :-) I want to do it for low cost.
>>
>> I would simply use the internet but there is no high speed available
>> out there in rural Western Washington State.
>>
>> Thank you all very much,
>> Harvey.


Never say never, but forget wireless in that area (lived in rathdrum idaho
((western id)) and trees/leafs in the summer and snow in the winter made
that a non-starter..... However, There are several commercial systems/isp's
out there that schools/businesses/etc use that may be able to point you in
the right direction (check with your local school and find out how they get
their internet fo the classes, ended up with )


as a start you may want to see if any are shown on this map at
http://www.onelasvegas.com/wireless/compare.html click on the state you want
and see if you are in one of the red circles
or for a more text based (rather than graphical/map)
or check Washington State Wireless Internet Service Providers
at http://www.bbwexchange.com/wisps/washington-wisps.asp

Not rural wash, but oregon, you may want to peruse the thread at
http://www.hwkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/n...for-rural-link
and see if any of that info helps.

On Sat, 17 May 2008 18:36:45 -0700 (PDT), Harvey
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>It is for monitoring 5 cameras. The camera setup is in place and
>working over the internet using dial up, but it is too slow. The
>picture updates only about every 5 to 40 seconds. I assume that
>internet traffic is the variable. Once every two seconds or faster
>would be good.
>
>What do you recommend for wireless through a fairly wooded area?
>
>And again can the phone company provide a connection in the existing
>buried wiring? They always have extra pairs available, right? Both
>locations are on the same dead end road.
>
>Thanks

Something you can try with the phone lines is to establish a
connection between the two locations without using the internet.
In years past I've tested using the dialin server included in the
win 98 DUN 1.3 application. Just to see if it could be done, I
ran netmeeting and a webcam between two computers over the two
different phone lines in the house. Still would be slow compared
to broadband, but might be a little quicker than going thru an
ISP.

On May 18, 12:40 am, shb*NO*SP...@comporium.net (Si Ballenger) wrote:
> On Sat, 17 May 2008 18:36:45 -0700 (PDT), Harvey
>
> <harve...@juno.com> wrote:
> >It is for monitoring 5 cameras. The camera setup is in place and
> >working over the internet using dial up, but it is too slow. The
> >picture updates only about every 5 to 40 seconds. I assume that
> >internet traffic is the variable. Once every two seconds or faster
> >would be good.
>
> >What do you recommend for wireless through a fairly wooded area?
>
> >And again can the phone company provide a connection in the existing
> >buried wiring? They always have extra pairs available, right? Both
> >locations are on the same dead end road.
>
> >Thanks
>
> Something you can try with the phone lines is to establish a
> connection between the two locations without using the internet.
> In years past I've tested using the dialin server included in the
> win 98 DUN 1.3 application. Just to see if it could be done, I
> ran netmeeting and a webcam between two computers over the two
> different phone lines in the house. Still would be slow compared
> to broadband, but might be a little quicker than going thru an
> ISP.

So are you saying instead of calling an ISP, I just call the phone at
my other location and regular dialup modems on the two ends will talk
to each other? How can I configure that?
Thanks,
Harvey