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Re: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6914492.stm (2)

 
 
Lenny
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      07-31-2007, 05:03 PM
copied from a forum (i couldn't have put it better myself):

> RE: Phone mast allergy "in the mind"
>
> Yes, this is the study which has been going on for some years at the
> University of Essex, which various UK ES people have ground their teeth
> about periodically while it was being done! In case anyone puts it forward
> as an anti-ES argument, the following points might be noted.
>
> 1. It was held at the University site - so anyone with severe ES who can't
> travel was unable to attend.
>
> 2. Five subjects with severe ES who were unable to complete the tests
> because of the pain experienced were simply excluded from the results.
> (this info is second hand but I believe originates from Alasdair Phillips
> of Powerwatch, I have also heard from a separate source that some people
> were unable to continue)
>
> 3. Exposures were to a given frequency of MW mast signal for a total
> period of under 1 hour, so that people who were not sensitive to that
> particular frequency would not register a positive reaction.
>
> 4. The researchers were psychologists, not medical - which implies a lot
> about what they expected to find!
>
> Basically, 1 and 2 excluded the people who might be expected to react most
> strongly (severely ES), and the exposure time was short enough that
> moderately ES people might not experience a reaction.
>
> An interesting parallel that I thought of would be this: 1. A study is
> done on disability. It is held on an upper floor of a building with stairs
> and no lift. All the people appearing for testing can walk, therefore
> severe disability does not exist.
>
> 2. A study is to be done on allergies. People are collected with various
> allergies; bee stings, nuts, pollen, solvents, dust mites etc. All are
> exposed to pollen. Only a few develop hayfever. Therefore, allergies and
> hayfever do not exist, and for the few people who do display a reaction,
> it is obviously all in the mind.
>
> 3. A study is done on lung cancer. People show no obvious ill effect after
> 1 hour of smoking cigarettes, therefore there is no link between smoking
> and cancer.
>
> 4. A painting is to be examined to see whether it is a Titian or an expert
> forgery. The person responsible for devising the test and making the
> assessment is an amateur photographer.
>
>
> Small correction; it actually states in the article that 12 people dropped
> out of the study due to illness, and 44 "sensitives" and 114 controls were
> tested. Assuming that those who dropped out were sensitive, it means that
> over 20% (44 out of 56) of the test group were unable to complete the
> tests. This is a very high proportion, especially if these "illnesses"
> happened to suddenly manifest themselves on the day, in the test
> environment..... To then say that only 2 of the remaining 44 could detect
> the emissions consistently is a rather flawed sample.
>
> ************************************************** ***********************
>


I have worked for many years in scientific research and I can tell you
that nothing of any value came from that exercise (I wont call it research
because that is what it was not).

 
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Clint Sharp
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      08-01-2007, 12:17 AM
In message <f8nmh6$j23$(E-Mail Removed)>, Lenny <(E-Mail Removed)>
writes
>I have worked for many years in scientific research and I can tell you
>that nothing of any value came from that exercise (I wont call it research
>because that is what it was not).
>

Cite references and post links to research you have published please. If
you can substantiate your claim and establish your credentials then
people may begin to listen to you, so far all you have published is a
bunch of pseudo science from a bunch of nut jobs.
--
Clint Sharp
 
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Peter Parry
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      08-01-2007, 12:43 PM
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:03:53 +0100, Lenny <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>copied from a forum (i couldn't have put it better myself)


I wouldn't disagree with that.

>> Yes, this is the study which has been going on for some years at the
>> University of Essex, which various UK ES people have ground their teeth
>> about periodically while it was being done!


In case it didn't come up with the result which suited them. It's
quite a common problem amongst single issue pressure groups whose
members minds are made up and who do not wish to be confused by
facts.

>> 1. It was held at the University site - so anyone with severe ES who can't
>> travel was unable to attend.


That's OK, enough people who claimed to be affected managed to get
there.

>> 2. Five subjects with severe ES who were unable to complete the tests
>> because of the pain experienced were simply excluded from the results.
>> (this info is second hand but I believe originates from Alasdair Phillips
>> of Powerwatch, I have also heard from a separate source that some people
>> were unable to continue)


Some withdrew before blind testing, whether this was due to their
psychological reaction to being told the transmitter was on made them
disinclined to continue or their own realisation that they wouldn't
be able to fiddle the tests and get the results they wanted is
unknown. The number remaining was still sufficient.

>> 3. Exposures were to a given frequency of MW mast signal for a total
>> period of under 1 hour, so that people who were not sensitive to that
>> particular frequency would not register a positive reaction.


The GSM band covers (taking the worldwide extremes) 880MHz to 960MHz.
The UMTS band covers 1885-2200 MHz. Are you seriously suggesting that
people may be sensitive to say 890 MHz but not 891 MHz? The test
included the UMTS as well as the GSM 900 and 1800 Mhz bands.

>> 4. The researchers were psychologists, not medical - which implies a lot
>> about what they expected to find!


It implies nothing, unlike dipstick "activists" they were looking for
objective evidence - not propaganda.

>> Basically, 1 and 2 excluded the people who might be expected to react most
>> strongly (severely ES), and the exposure time was short enough that
>> moderately ES people might not experience a reaction.


All of the so called "ES" subjects claimed to be able tell
immediately they were exposed.

"The open provocation test verified that when sensitive individuals
knew the base station was emitting either a GSM or UMTS signal they
self-reported lower levels of well-being and more symptoms than
during the sham condition. This demonstrated that the laboratory
conditions did not prevent sensitive individuals from reacting to
either the GSM or UMS signals."

>> An interesting parallel that I thought of would be this:


I don't think much thought went into any of those, none of which were
in any way related to this report.

>> Small correction; it actually states in the article that 12 people dropped
>> out of the study due to illness, and 44 "sensitives" and 114 controls were
>> tested. Assuming that those who dropped out were sensitive, it means that
>> over 20% (44 out of 56) of the test group were unable to complete the
>> tests.


That would be consistent with the conclusion of the report that the
ailment is psychosomatic.

>>To then say that only 2 of the remaining 44 could detect
>> the emissions consistently is a rather flawed sample.


Actually none of the self declared "sensitives" could consistently
detect any emissions. The 2 "sensitives" _and_ six controls who
identified the 6 on/off sequences correctly is what you would expect
from random choice.

>I have worked for many years in scientific research


As a cleaner?
--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/
 
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Ian Edwards
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      08-01-2007, 02:34 PM
Peter Parry wrote:

> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:03:53 +0100, Lenny <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>> I have worked for many years in scientific research

>
> As a cleaner?



<snigger>

--
Ian Edwards

To all those who believe in telekinesis, raise my right hand.
 
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brightside S9
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      08-02-2007, 10:29 AM
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:03:53 +0100, Lenny <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>I have worked for many years in scientific research and I can tell you
>that nothing of any value came from that exercise (I wont call it research
>because that is what it was not).


Would you care to tell us what your educational qualifications are
that got you your 'work' in 'scientific research'?

--
brightside S9

 
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dennis@home
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      08-02-2007, 04:20 PM

"brightside S9" <address@replyto_is_not.invalid> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:03:53 +0100, Lenny <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>>I have worked for many years in scientific research and I can tell you
>>that nothing of any value came from that exercise (I wont call it research
>>because that is what it was not).

>
> Would you care to tell us what your educational qualifications are
> that got you your 'work' in 'scientific research'?


You don't need qualifications to do useful research.
It does help peddle quack stuff if you have them though.


 
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Clint Sharp
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      08-02-2007, 05:26 PM
In message <f8ssn5$qc0$(E-Mail Removed)>, "dennis@home"
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>
>"brightside S9" <address@replyto_is_not.invalid> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:03:53 +0100, Lenny <(E-Mail Removed)>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I have worked for many years in scientific research and I can tell you
>>>that nothing of any value came from that exercise (I wont call it research
>>>because that is what it was not).

>>
>> Would you care to tell us what your educational qualifications are
>> that got you your 'work' in 'scientific research'?

>
>You don't need qualifications to do useful research.
>It does help peddle quack stuff if you have them though.
>
>

LOL, very true.. I suppose the security guard at the cancer research
place I visited yesterday could be said to work in
--
Clint Sharp
 
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