Random disconnections from exchange

I keep getting temporary disconnections from the local exchange.


I'll try and explain this as well as I can. When I first turn on the PC
theres a small icon in the taskbar that represents the ADSL modems
connection to the exchange. This automatically connects as it should. The
other icon is the connection to my ISP (Nildram).

The problem is not with the connection to the ISP its the connection from
the modem to the exchange. Every few days it randomly disconnects at
different times through the day but will reconnect/"resync" with the
exchange. Then for a few days it will be ok then it will start playing up
again.

Before I knew it wasn't Nildrams fault, I phoned them and asked them what it
could be. They said it could be microfilters/hardware problems. I know for
sure that its not as its all been tested in other computers.

I've tried using the bt_test_user@domain stuff which totally bypasses my ISP
and I still get the disconnects so its obviously not Nildrams fault.

My question is, is it worth phoning Nildram again so they can get in touch
with BT themselves or should I phone BT myself?

My thinking is that if Nildram contacted BT, things may get moving a little
quicker than if i was to phone personally. Also, theres a chance BT could
try and fob me off with some lame excuses etc.

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 19:47:50 +0000, Paul wrote:

> I keep getting temporary disconnections from the local exchange.
>
>
> I'll try and explain this as well as I can. When I first turn on the PC
> theres a small icon in the taskbar that represents the ADSL modems
> connection to the exchange. This automatically connects as it should. The
> other icon is the connection to my ISP (Nildram).
>
> The problem is not with the connection to the ISP its the connection from
> the modem to the exchange. Every few days it randomly disconnects at
> different times through the day but will reconnect/"resync" with the
> exchange. Then for a few days it will be ok then it will start playing up
> again.
>
> Before I knew it wasn't Nildrams fault, I phoned them and asked them what
> it could be. They said it could be microfilters/hardware problems. I know
> for sure that its not as its all been tested in other computers.
>
> I've tried using the bt_test_user@domain stuff which totally bypasses my
> ISP and I still get the disconnects so its obviously not Nildrams fault.
>
> My question is, is it worth phoning Nildram again so they can get in touch
> with BT themselves or should I phone BT myself?
>
> My thinking is that if Nildram contacted BT, things may get moving a
> little quicker than if i was to phone personally. Also, theres a chance
> BT could try and fob me off with some lame excuses etc.

If your contract is with Nildram, they are your first point of contact.
They will forward the line fault to BT. It does sound like a faulty local
end. Could be a noisy line. But you must bare in mind that ADSL is not
intended to be totally fault free and on 100% of the time. If the fault
can't be 'seen' by BT on a spot check it is difficult to progress this
type of fault.

graham

Hi Paul

My connection has started doing this over the last couple of days after
being virtually perfect for the last year !
Where abouts are you? I'm in Chessington in Surrey and use Pipex but I'd be
interested in seeing if it is a local BT thing.

Cheers

Jim

--
Remove BRAIN before replying
"Graham" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 19:47:50 +0000, Paul wrote:
>
> > I keep getting temporary disconnections from the local exchange.
> >
> >
> > I'll try and explain this as well as I can. When I first turn on the PC
> > theres a small icon in the taskbar that represents the ADSL modems
> > connection to the exchange. This automatically connects as it should.
The
> > other icon is the connection to my ISP (Nildram).
> >
> > The problem is not with the connection to the ISP its the connection
from
> > the modem to the exchange. Every few days it randomly disconnects at
> > different times through the day but will reconnect/"resync" with the
> > exchange. Then for a few days it will be ok then it will start playing
up
> > again.
> >
> > Before I knew it wasn't Nildrams fault, I phoned them and asked them
what
> > it could be. They said it could be microfilters/hardware problems. I
know
> > for sure that its not as its all been tested in other computers.
> >
> > I've tried using the bt_test_user@domain stuff which totally bypasses my
> > ISP and I still get the disconnects so its obviously not Nildrams fault.
> >
> > My question is, is it worth phoning Nildram again so they can get in
touch
> > with BT themselves or should I phone BT myself?
> >
> > My thinking is that if Nildram contacted BT, things may get moving a
> > little quicker than if i was to phone personally. Also, theres a chance
> > BT could try and fob me off with some lame excuses etc.
>
> If your contract is with Nildram, they are your first point of contact.
> They will forward the line fault to BT. It does sound like a faulty local
> end. Could be a noisy line. But you must bare in mind that ADSL is not
> intended to be totally fault free and on 100% of the time. If the fault
> can't be 'seen' by BT on a spot check it is difficult to progress this
> type of fault.
>
> graham
>

I'll give Nildram another call then and make sure they forward my problem to
BT. Are you saying that if BT can't find a fault on the line there's nothing
they can do?

If so, thats just not good enough. They should send an engineer out to
check everything.

I remember a couple of years back I was asked BT to raise the gain on the
line. Can't remember the reason why right now but could this be a factor
here? I can't see it myself as the problem only happens randomly and not
all the time.


Paul




> If your contract is with Nildram, they are your first point of contact.
> They will forward the line fault to BT. It does sound like a faulty local
> end. Could be a noisy line. But you must bare in mind that ADSL is not
> intended to be totally fault free and on 100% of the time. If the fault
> can't be 'seen' by BT on a spot check it is difficult to progress this
> type of fault.
>
> graham

I'm in Liverpool mate so definately not local! I'm planning on giving BT a
call later when I finish work. I'll let you know what they say. Might be
helpful to you if we have the same/similar problem.

Paul




"JimM" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi Paul
>
> My connection has started doing this over the last couple of days after
> being virtually perfect for the last year !
> Where abouts are you? I'm in Chessington in Surrey and use Pipex but I'd
be
> interested in seeing if it is a local BT thing.
>
> Cheers
>
> Jim
>
> --
> Remove BRAIN before replying
> "Graham" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news(E-Mail Removed)...
> > On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 19:47:50 +0000, Paul wrote:
> >
> > > I keep getting temporary disconnections from the local exchange.
> > >
> > >
> > > I'll try and explain this as well as I can. When I first turn on the
PC
> > > theres a small icon in the taskbar that represents the ADSL modems
> > > connection to the exchange. This automatically connects as it should.
> The
> > > other icon is the connection to my ISP (Nildram).
> > >
> > > The problem is not with the connection to the ISP its the connection
> from
> > > the modem to the exchange. Every few days it randomly disconnects at
> > > different times through the day but will reconnect/"resync" with the
> > > exchange. Then for a few days it will be ok then it will start
playing
> up
> > > again.
> > >
> > > Before I knew it wasn't Nildrams fault, I phoned them and asked them
> what
> > > it could be. They said it could be microfilters/hardware problems. I
> know
> > > for sure that its not as its all been tested in other computers.
> > >
> > > I've tried using the bt_test_user@domain stuff which totally bypasses
my
> > > ISP and I still get the disconnects so its obviously not Nildrams
fault.
> > >
> > > My question is, is it worth phoning Nildram again so they can get in
> touch
> > > with BT themselves or should I phone BT myself?
> > >
> > > My thinking is that if Nildram contacted BT, things may get moving a
> > > little quicker than if i was to phone personally. Also, theres a
chance
> > > BT could try and fob me off with some lame excuses etc.
> >
> > If your contract is with Nildram, they are your first point of contact.
> > They will forward the line fault to BT. It does sound like a faulty
local
> > end. Could be a noisy line. But you must bare in mind that ADSL is not
> > intended to be totally fault free and on 100% of the time. If the fault
> > can't be 'seen' by BT on a spot check it is difficult to progress this
> > type of fault.
> >
> > graham
> >
>
>

You might like to check your signal level, if it is high then it may
be the sensitivity of the modem, coupled with the line condition.

A set up close to me has been dropping the connections regularly
during the summer, his reading is around the 56db, but as the weather
has got colder the dropping has now been reduced to 1 or 2 every
10days, where as it could be lots per day.

Yours seems to be the inverse of the above, but could still be the
same cause, whereby the line as it gets colder gets more noise on it
through bad connections .

bl



On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:47:50 -0000, "Paul" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I keep getting temporary disconnections from the local exchange.
>
>
>I'll try and explain this as well as I can. When I first turn on the PC
>theres a small icon in the taskbar that represents the ADSL modems
>connection to the exchange. This automatically connects as it should. The
>other icon is the connection to my ISP (Nildram).
>
>The problem is not with the connection to the ISP its the connection from
>the modem to the exchange. Every few days it randomly disconnects at
>different times through the day but will reconnect/"resync" with the
>exchange. Then for a few days it will be ok then it will start playing up
>again.
>
>Before I knew it wasn't Nildrams fault, I phoned them and asked them what it
>could be. They said it could be microfilters/hardware problems. I know for
>sure that its not as its all been tested in other computers.
>
>I've tried using the bt_test_user@domain stuff which totally bypasses my ISP
>and I still get the disconnects so its obviously not Nildrams fault.
>
>My question is, is it worth phoning Nildram again so they can get in touch
>with BT themselves or should I phone BT myself?
>
>My thinking is that if Nildram contacted BT, things may get moving a little
>quicker than if i was to phone personally. Also, theres a chance BT could
>try and fob me off with some lame excuses etc.
>

Paul wrote:
> I'll give Nildram another call then and make sure they forward my
> problem to BT. Are you saying that if BT can't find a fault on the
> line there's nothing they can do?
>
> If so, thats just not good enough. They should send an engineer
> out to check everything.

Hopefully if you progress the fault via Nildram they will ensure that
BT will send a DSL engineer who will look for any conditions. If you
just report it direct to BT (well firstly the front desk shouldn't
accept the fault) all you'll get is a 'normal' engineer who'll 'Right
When Tested' you & charge you for the priviledge.

It may take a few reports & visits before they will be able to pin it
down as it will be caused by an intermitent problem (which typically
will not be on the line when the engineer gets there) so stick with it

--
B-)
Don't practice safe hex,
do it!!!

Didn't have time to phone BT today but will surprise surprise the problem
seems to have subsided again.
Wonder how long for this time! How would I check the signal level and what
would be a 'normal' reading to have?


Paul


"Bob L" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> You might like to check your signal level, if it is high then it may
> be the sensitivity of the modem, coupled with the line condition.
>
> A set up close to me has been dropping the connections regularly
> during the summer, his reading is around the 56db, but as the weather
> has got colder the dropping has now been reduced to 1 or 2 every
> 10days, where as it could be lots per day.
>
> Yours seems to be the inverse of the above, but could still be the
> same cause, whereby the line as it gets colder gets more noise on it
> through bad connections .
>
> bl
>
>
>
> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:47:50 -0000, "Paul" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >I keep getting temporary disconnections from the local exchange.
> >
> >
> >I'll try and explain this as well as I can. When I first turn on the PC
> >theres a small icon in the taskbar that represents the ADSL modems
> >connection to the exchange. This automatically connects as it should.
The
> >other icon is the connection to my ISP (Nildram).
> >
> >The problem is not with the connection to the ISP its the connection from
> >the modem to the exchange. Every few days it randomly disconnects at
> >different times through the day but will reconnect/"resync" with the
> >exchange. Then for a few days it will be ok then it will start playing
up
> >again.
> >
> >Before I knew it wasn't Nildrams fault, I phoned them and asked them what
it
> >could be. They said it could be microfilters/hardware problems. I know
for
> >sure that its not as its all been tested in other computers.
> >
> >I've tried using the bt_test_user@domain stuff which totally bypasses my
ISP
> >and I still get the disconnects so its obviously not Nildrams fault.
> >
> >My question is, is it worth phoning Nildram again so they can get in
touch
> >with BT themselves or should I phone BT myself?
> >
> >My thinking is that if Nildram contacted BT, things may get moving a
little
> >quicker than if i was to phone personally. Also, theres a chance BT
could
> >try and fob me off with some lame excuses etc.
> >
>

Trimmed, corrected for top posting.

>> "Graham" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 19:47:50 +0000, Paul wrote:
>>>
>>>> I keep getting temporary disconnections from the local exchange.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'll try and explain this as well as I can. When I first turn on
>>>> the PC theres a small icon in the taskbar that represents the ADSL
>>>> modems connection to the exchange. This automatically connects as
>>>> it should. The other icon is the connection to my ISP (Nildram).
>>>>
>>>> The problem is not with the connection to the ISP its the
>>>> connection from the modem to the exchange. Every few days it
>>>> randomly disconnects at different times through the day but will
>>>> reconnect/"resync" with the exchange. Then for a few days it will
>>>> be ok then it will start playing up again.
>>>>
>>>> Before I knew it wasn't Nildrams fault, I phoned them and asked
>>>> them what it could be. They said it could be microfilters/hardware
>>>> problems. I know for sure that its not as its all been tested in
>>>> other computers.
>>>>
>>>> I've tried using the bt_test_user@domain stuff which totally
>>>> bypasses my ISP and I still get the disconnects so its obviously
>>>> not Nildrams fault.
>>>>
>>>> My question is, is it worth phoning Nildram again so they can get
>>>> in touch with BT themselves or should I phone BT myself?
>>>>
>>>> My thinking is that if Nildram contacted BT, things may get moving
>>>> a little quicker than if i was to phone personally. Also, theres
>>>> a chance BT could try and fob me off with some lame excuses etc.
>>>
>>> If your contract is with Nildram, they are your first point of
>>> contact. They will forward the line fault to BT. It does sound like
>>> a faulty local end. Could be a noisy line. But you must bare in
>>> mind that ADSL is not intended to be totally fault free and on 100%
>>> of the time. If the fault can't be 'seen' by BT on a spot check it
>>> is difficult to progress this type of fault.
>>>
>>> graham

>> Hi Paul
>>
>> My connection has started doing this over the last couple of days
>> after being virtually perfect for the last year !
>> Where abouts are you? I'm in Chessington in Surrey and use Pipex but
>> I'd be interested in seeing if it is a local BT thing.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> --
>> Remove BRAIN before replying

Paul <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> I'm in Liverpool mate so definately not local! I'm planning on giving
> BT a call later when I finish work. I'll let you know what they say.
> Might be helpful to you if we have the same/similar problem.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> "JimM" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...

Hi
b
I am in Aylesbury with Nildram and posted about this situation in September.
I have had a good 2 MB connection since May till Sept and for no reason the
connection failed for a couple of days. The line specs were out but it was
supposed to be kept under observation by BT, surprise no such thing was
done. I didnt push it as the line started working on its own, barring a
couple more occasional problems in the last month. The second engineers
visit was yesterday and this chap only wanted to sign my line off as faulty
and get out of there rather than try to diagnose the problem. At this moment
it has been out for 4 days though the modem is synchronising with the
exchange. Nildrams records show line dropped due to port error or lost
carrier mostly for the disconnections I have had, router reports only very
few actual loss of DSL link. ATM loopback ping still successful even now
when the connection doesnt work so dont see there being line card probs?

Initial line length given by the 17070 test was 3 km, dont remember the
capacitance values but I did speak to a telephone engineer before even
ordering the service so dont think the line was marginal initially.

These data are since the line started giving trouble since Sept
Sept SNR was around 18 when working and 8 when faulty, Attenuation was
between 47 and 48 dB since Sept when I have kept an eye on it. WHOOSH 48 dB
and TEMPO 49.5, APTS 44.895 dB at 300 khz insertion loss.
Yesterday's SNR was 16 and attenuation 47 dB again when the system was not
working. APTS was 44 dB at the same 300 khz insertion loss.
Corelation between my router and BT's test equipment is good, so my kit is
not under or over reporting. (Efficient Networks 5660 ethernet router,
Alcatel chipset)
Capacitance is 186 nF A-E, 186 nF B-E and 312 A-B with the filter plugged
in. Without the filter A-B capacitance changes to 161. Any idea how this
matches to the line length described in May?
The 160 nF capacitance figure and the length of 3 km fit what the publicly
available data on suitability of the line says, doesnt look marginal to me.

BT are keep to dismiss this as a mariginal line since original installaion
that is unable to keep a connection in spec but I feel that the changes are
more recent and would like any ideas to back this up. I have asked for the
initial line installation records of testing but surprise no one seems
interested to tell me.
I have a voice engineer visiting today to try and root out any line faults
for occasional noise.
Was given the usual guff by the broadband engineer yesterday how OFTEL had
ruled that BT Wholesale could not ask BT Retail's technical team to look
into line quality for competitive reasons but have verified with an OFTEL
operative that there is no such rule, the only rule is that there should be
no favouritism on the consumer facing ISP side but technical repairs are not
restricted in that way. On the downside it appears that since ADSL is not
ruled an essential service BT dont have to spend time fixing a line even if
the fault develops after the line is in service if they dont want the money,
it is supposedly a commercial decision.
I think I am going to have to update my house hunting criteria to include
distance from major Points of presence to enable the receipt of a Ethernet
connection just so that I can avoid BT. Bulldog and Easynet are just out of
reach at 20 miles away, think I see a house move coming up.

S. Althaf
Help please, anyone

Trimmed, corrected for top posting.

>> "Graham" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 19:47:50 +0000, Paul wrote:
>>>
>>>> I keep getting temporary disconnections from the local exchange.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'll try and explain this as well as I can. When I first turn on
>>>> the PC theres a small icon in the taskbar that represents the ADSL
>>>> modems connection to the exchange. This automatically connects as
>>>> it should. The other icon is the connection to my ISP (Nildram).
>>>>
>>>> The problem is not with the connection to the ISP its the
>>>> connection from the modem to the exchange. Every few days it
>>>> randomly disconnects at different times through the day but will
>>>> reconnect/"resync" with the exchange. Then for a few days it will
>>>> be ok then it will start playing up again.
>>>>
>>>> Before I knew it wasn't Nildrams fault, I phoned them and asked
>>>> them what it could be. They said it could be microfilters/hardware
>>>> problems. I know for sure that its not as its all been tested in
>>>> other computers.
>>>>
>>>> I've tried using the bt_test_user@domain stuff which totally
>>>> bypasses my ISP and I still get the disconnects so its obviously
>>>> not Nildrams fault.
>>>>
>>>> My question is, is it worth phoning Nildram again so they can get
>>>> in touch with BT themselves or should I phone BT myself?
>>>>
>>>> My thinking is that if Nildram contacted BT, things may get moving
>>>> a little quicker than if i was to phone personally. Also, theres
>>>> a chance BT could try and fob me off with some lame excuses etc.
>>>
>>> If your contract is with Nildram, they are your first point of
>>> contact. They will forward the line fault to BT. It does sound like
>>> a faulty local end. Could be a noisy line. But you must bare in
>>> mind that ADSL is not intended to be totally fault free and on 100%
>>> of the time. If the fault can't be 'seen' by BT on a spot check it
>>> is difficult to progress this type of fault.
>>>
>>> graham

>> Hi Paul
>>
>> My connection has started doing this over the last couple of days
>> after being virtually perfect for the last year !
>> Where abouts are you? I'm in Chessington in Surrey and use Pipex but
>> I'd be interested in seeing if it is a local BT thing.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> --
>> Remove BRAIN before replying

Paul <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> I'm in Liverpool mate so definately not local! I'm planning on giving
> BT a call later when I finish work. I'll let you know what they say.
> Might be helpful to you if we have the same/similar problem.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> "JimM" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...

Hi
b
I am in Aylesbury with Nildram and posted about this situation in September.
I have had a good 2 MB connection since May till Sept and for no reason the
connection failed for a couple of days. The line specs were out but it was
supposed to be kept under observation by BT, surprise no such thing was
done. I didnt push it as the line started working on its own, barring a
couple more occasional problems in the last month. The second engineers
visit was yesterday and this chap only wanted to sign my line off as faulty
and get out of there rather than try to diagnose the problem. At this moment
it has been out for 4 days though the modem is synchronising with the
exchange. Nildrams records show line dropped due to port error or lost
carrier mostly for the disconnections I have had, router reports only very
few actual loss of DSL link. ATM loopback ping still successful even now
when the connection doesnt work so dont see there being line card probs?

Initial line length given by the 17070 test was 3 km, dont remember the
capacitance values but I did speak to a telephone engineer before even
ordering the service so dont think the line was marginal initially.

These data are since the line started giving trouble since Sept
Sept SNR was around 18 when working and 8 when faulty, Attenuation was
between 47 and 48 dB since Sept when I have kept an eye on it. WHOOSH 48 dB
and TEMPO 49.5, APTS 44.895 dB at 300 khz insertion loss.
Yesterday's SNR was 16 and attenuation 47 dB again when the system was not
working. APTS was 44 dB at the same 300 khz insertion loss.
Corelation between my router and BT's test equipment is good, so my kit is
not under or over reporting. (Efficient Networks 5660 ethernet router,
Alcatel chipset)
Capacitance is 186 nF A-E, 186 nF B-E and 312 A-B with the filter plugged
in. Without the filter A-B capacitance changes to 161. Any idea how this
matches to the line length described in May?
The 160 nF capacitance figure and the length of 3 km fit what the publicly
available data on suitability of the line says, doesnt look marginal to me.

BT are keep to dismiss this as a mariginal line since original installaion
that is unable to keep a connection in spec but I feel that the changes are
more recent and would like any ideas to back this up. I have asked for the
initial line installation records of testing but surprise no one seems
interested to tell me.
I have a voice engineer visiting today to try and root out any line faults
for occasional noise.
Was given the usual guff by the broadband engineer yesterday how OFTEL had
ruled that BT Wholesale could not ask BT Retail's technical team to look
into line quality for competitive reasons but have verified with an OFTEL
operative that there is no such rule, the only rule is that there should be
no favouritism on the consumer facing ISP side but technical repairs are not
restricted in that way. On the downside it appears that since ADSL is not
ruled an essential service BT dont have to spend time fixing a line even if
the fault develops after the line is in service if they dont want the money,
it is supposedly a commercial decision.
I think I am going to have to update my house hunting criteria to include
distance from major Points of presence to enable the receipt of a Ethernet
connection just so that I can avoid BT. Bulldog and Easynet are just out of
reach at 20 miles away, think I see a house move coming up.

S. Althaf
Help please, anyone