Question from the New Guy

I have a question about networking in Linux. I don't have time to do any
searches on the web nor to check Google groups. I am much busier than
everyone else in this newsgroup so I don't have the time to look around. I
also want to ask a question and have an answer immediately, or within a day
or so. Otherwise I am going to just ask it again and if not here, then in
another Linux group whether or not it has to do with the group's subject.

So busy am I that I don't have time to even post what my system is or the
version I am running. I don't know and I don't care. I just want some free
help from someone willing to hold my hand the whole time while I try to get
by with doing the least amount possible.

Oh yeah, if you do answer my question, I am going to follow up the thread
asking you to explain the answer over and over with the excuse I am a
newbie and cannot quite grasp what you are saying. If you tell me to read
the "man" pages, post a URL, post a Google search link, or anything else
which does not explicitly answer my question, I am going to bitch and moan
that you were once a "newbie" too. You must have had people to help you
since no one could possibly have learned all you did by reading.

So what's my question? I really don't have one but I did waste everyone's
time by posting this. It was a lot more entertaining than answering the
same F.A.Q. questions over and over wasn't it? Sure it was! Plus you got a
good laugh reading and remembering all of the bone-headed posts you have
read here over the years !!

theNewguy

On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 22:25:05 -0400, theNewguy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>
> I have a question about networking in Linux. I don't have time to do any
> searches on the web nor to check Google groups. I am much busier than
> everyone else in this newsgroup so I don't have the time to look around. I
> also want to ask a question and have an answer immediately, or within a day
> or so. Otherwise I am going to just ask it again and if not here, then in
> another Linux group whether or not it has to do with the group's subject.
>
> So busy am I that I don't have time to even post what my system is or the
> version I am running. I don't know and I don't care. I just want some free
> help from someone willing to hold my hand the whole time while I try to get
> by with doing the least amount possible.
>
> Oh yeah, if you do answer my question, I am going to follow up the thread
> asking you to explain the answer over and over with the excuse I am a
> newbie and cannot quite grasp what you are saying. If you tell me to read
> the "man" pages, post a URL, post a Google search link, or anything else
> which does not explicitly answer my question, I am going to bitch and moan
> that you were once a "newbie" too. You must have had people to help you
> since no one could possibly have learned all you did by reading.
>
> So what's my question? I really don't have one but I did waste everyone's
> time by posting this. It was a lot more entertaining than answering the
> same F.A.Q. questions over and over wasn't it? Sure it was! Plus you got a
> good laugh reading and remembering all of the bone-headed posts you have
> read here over the years !!
>
> theNewguy
>
>

And just WHO is it that is forcing you to answer the same questions over
and over? Bill Gates?

Could it be that the same questions get asked because there is always a
new generation of Linux people?

Could it be that you have forgotten what it is like to be a newbie?

Could it be that you are an arrogant snob utterly lacking in compassion?


Alan




--
For Linux/Bash users: Eliminate spam with the Mailbox-Sentry-Program.
See: http://tinyurl.com/inpd for the scripts and docs.

Alan Connor wrote:

> And just WHO is it that is forcing you to answer the same questions over
> and over? Bill Gates?

I don't think Bill would want any Linux inquiries answered. :-)

I do have to continually read the same questions over and over. It is along
the same lines as "Daddy are we there yet?"..."Daddy are we there
yet?"...etc. It also demonstrates a lack of initiative on the part of the
poster.

> Could it be that the same questions get asked because there is always a
> new generation of Linux people?

Yep. That is why the F.A.Q.'s were developed. Do you think they were put
together just to take up room on a server somewhere? They were made to
clear the newsgroup of the same old traffic so as to encourage the more
experienced people to stay around. Reading the same things over and over
does a great job of driving away the highly knowledgeable.

> Could it be that you have forgotten what it is like to be a newbie?

Nope. In a sense I learn something new about every week. However, if I do
have a question, I work the usual sources before posting anything.
Ninety-nine times out of a hundred I find the answer.

> Could it be that you are an arrogant snob utterly lacking in compassion?

Again, nope. Just because I require you to work does not mean I lack
compassion. In fact, it demonstrates that I have MORE compassion and
respect for someone instead of thinking they are too stupid to learn
something for themselves. By requiring someone to do reading, you actually
encourage them to grow and derive more satisfaction from the experience.
Also when another problem crops up, they will have a better handle on
determining the answer on their own.

As the saying goes: "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach him to
fish and you feed him for a lifetime." I would rather feed people for a
lifetime than to have them come back continually for another meal. By doing
so, I free myself up to help others learn to fish instead of supporting a
steadily increasing number of people demanding handouts.

theNewguy

"theNewguy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:M15Za.52378$(E-Mail Removed) ...
> Alan Connor wrote:
>
> > And just WHO is it that is forcing you to answer the same questions over
> > and over? Bill Gates?
>
> I don't think Bill would want any Linux inquiries answered. :-)
>
> I do have to continually read the same questions over and over. It is
along
> the same lines as "Daddy are we there yet?"..."Daddy are we there
> yet?"...etc. It also demonstrates a lack of initiative on the part of the
> poster.
>
> > Could it be that the same questions get asked because there is always a
> > new generation of Linux people?
>
> Yep. That is why the F.A.Q.'s were developed. Do you think they were put
> together just to take up room on a server somewhere? They were made to
> clear the newsgroup of the same old traffic so as to encourage the more
> experienced people to stay around. Reading the same things over and over
> does a great job of driving away the highly knowledgeable.
>
> > Could it be that you have forgotten what it is like to be a newbie?
>
> Nope. In a sense I learn something new about every week. However, if I do
> have a question, I work the usual sources before posting anything.
> Ninety-nine times out of a hundred I find the answer.
>
> > Could it be that you are an arrogant snob utterly lacking in compassion?
>
> Again, nope. Just because I require you to work does not mean I lack
> compassion. In fact, it demonstrates that I have MORE compassion and
> respect for someone instead of thinking they are too stupid to learn
> something for themselves. By requiring someone to do reading, you actually
> encourage them to grow and derive more satisfaction from the experience.
> Also when another problem crops up, they will have a better handle on
> determining the answer on their own.
>
> As the saying goes: "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach him
to
> fish and you feed him for a lifetime." I would rather feed people for a
> lifetime than to have them come back continually for another meal. By
doing
> so, I free myself up to help others learn to fish instead of supporting a
> steadily increasing number of people demanding handouts.
>
> theNewguy
>


Well I remember being someone who was soooo eager to learn that I may have
sometimes shown a zest (& impatience) that could have been seen as 'asking
the same old questions'.

Looking back (it weren't that long ago) I was fanatical about learning "I
must know how to do this". I caught the bug! It was like, if I did not
figure out how to do something - I could not rest or get a decent nights
sleep until I had a full understanding. So I may have appeared somewhat
repetitive to some of the more knowledgeable users and prolley still can!

I now feel very grateful that some of the folks on these groups took a bit
of time and patience to explain things to me. Man pages have become more
friendly to my brain and I seem to have developed an instinctual knowledge
of what to try first and where to look.

Now I trawl the net looking for someone else who I may be able to pass
something onto. It gives me a good feeling to say 'Try this!'

It all go's round and I am quite happy with the scheme of things. May be you
should just killfile the word 'newbie' if it upsets you so much?

Warm Regards,

Luke

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, luke wrote:
> "theNewguy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
A very good troll and an even better followup. (Thanks, tNG.)

> It all go's round and I am quite happy with the scheme of things. May be you
> should just killfile the word 'newbie' if it upsets you so much?

Luke, I can't believe that you and I just read the same posts here! I
came away with an understanding diametrically opposed to the one you
got. It's not at all about hating newbies ... it's about encouraging
them to become gurus, and giving them the tools to take them there. It's
about building a self-sustaining community!
--
/dev/rob0 - preferred_email=i$((28*28+28))@softhome.net
or put "not-spam" or "/dev/rob0" in Subject header to reply

"/dev/rob0" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, luke wrote:
> > "theNewguy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
> A very good troll and an even better followup. (Thanks, tNG.)
>
> > It all go's round and I am quite happy with the scheme of things. May be
you
> > should just killfile the word 'newbie' if it upsets you so much?
>
> Luke, I can't believe that you and I just read the same posts here! I
> came away with an understanding diametrically opposed to the one you
> got. It's not at all about hating newbies ... it's about encouraging
> them to become gurus, and giving them the tools to take them there. It's
> about building a self-sustaining community!

Is that not what i just said..

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, luke wrote:
>> got. It's not at all about hating newbies ... it's about encouraging
>> them to become gurus, and giving them the tools to take them there. It's
>> about building a self-sustaining community!
>
> Is that not what i just said..

Yes, but it sounded like you were then telling theNewGuy to killfile all
newbies. I apologise if I misunderstood you. Anyway, we ought to drop
this thread ...
--
/dev/rob0 - preferred_email=i$((28*28+28))@softhome.net
or put "not-spam" or "/dev/rob0" in Subject header to reply

"/dev/rob0" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, luke wrote:
> >> got. It's not at all about hating newbies ... it's about encouraging
> >> them to become gurus, and giving them the tools to take them there.
It's
> >> about building a self-sustaining community!
> >
> > Is that not what i just said..
>
> Yes, but it sounded like you were then telling theNewGuy to killfile all
> newbies. I apologise if I misunderstood you. Anyway, we ought to drop
> this thread ...

Either that or we move it to alt.zen ;¬)

Warm Regards,
Luke

theNewguy wrote:

> Yeah, we should probably drop it.
> I was trying to point something out and try to be somewhat
> entertaining at the same time in order to soften the edge of the post
> a little. No one should take offense at it. It is merely to offer a
> suggestion that some homework never hurts anyone (unless it involves
> explosives).

Well, I know you said that we should probably drop it but...

I'm afraid it just came across as a major moan. I guess there are two camps
here - one that considers it a mortal sin to ask a question without
searching Google for an hour first and the other that doesn't mind firing
off a quick answer (even if it is "try Google").

Some newbies don't even know about Google and need to be told. As a previous
poster said, there are new people using linux all the time and I for one
don't mind answering their questions if I can, but then I believe that it
doesn't matter if questions are asked over and over again. Imagine if in the
real world we were only allowed to have completely original conversations!

Cheers
Tim

In article <XbZYa.1318$(E-Mail Removed) et>, Alan Connor wrote:
>>
>> [snipped humour]
>
> And just WHO is it that is forcing you to answer the same questions over
> and over? Bill Gates?
>
> Could it be that the same questions get asked because there is always a
> new generation of Linux people?
>
> Could it be that you have forgotten what it is like to be a newbie?
>
> Could it be that you are an arrogant snob utterly lacking in compassion?
>
Hey I think he has a point! I think the point would of been made a bit
clearer if there was some good old fashion HTML and of course some

<h1><blink><strong>I RULZ</strong></blink></h1>

action also.

If some clueless luser really wants to fire off a usenet posting which
cascades to a hell of a lot of global bandwidth usage then I think they
deserve some good old fashion flaming, LARTing, grilling.

The idea is you slap them around early on so that you get one of two results:
1) they repent, grovel and stop using HTML and look on Google/USENET/etc
before posting to USENET
2) they go away, never to return, which I think is arguably a Good Thing (TM)

Using USENET has consequences, cascading bandwidth usage; which a simple 30
second look at a HOWTO or keyword entry into Google would prevent. Its not
as if we are asking the new comer to fuse the atom!

Just be glad these users are not computer consultants with an MCSE and can
define RAM at a drop of a hat, they are much worse

Regards

Alex