Question for kraftee?

Hi,

Today I have had a wiring fault. I have corrected it but I am puzzled by
it and would like to learn what has happened in case it ever happens again.

Basically, my router kept dropping DSL every few seconds. I checked with
the test socket and got a solid connection. I went to the first slave
socket and disconnected any extensions from there. No good. I took the
faceplate off and disconnected the external bell that runs from there.
Much better, but not perfect. Disconnects were now happening every one
or two minutes. I disconnected the other three wires (B/W, O/W, and W/B)
and the connection was solid. I tried connecting the B/W and W/B only,
leaving the ringing wire disconnected. This worked. The DSL connection
is solid and all my 'phones still ring. Everything now works so I put
everything back together.

It seems to me that the main problem was the external bell and that
needs replacing. It also seems that there is a problem somewhere on the
ringing circuit which I have bypassed by disconnecting the wire.
However, there was not a problem before the external bell failed. What
could have happened, please? Could the bell have caused a problem
elsewhere? Other than replacing the external bell, should I be doing
anything else?

--
Howard Neil

"Howard Neil" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:idWdnR3fUeBHgYPVnZ2dnUVZ8q-rnZ2d@plusnet...
>
> Hi,
>
> Today I have had a wiring fault. I have corrected it but I am puzzled by
> it and would like to learn what has happened in case it ever happens
> again.
>
> Basically, my router kept dropping DSL every few seconds. I checked with
> the test socket and got a solid connection. I went to the first slave
> socket and disconnected any extensions from there. No good. I took the
> faceplate off and disconnected the external bell that runs from there.
> Much better, but not perfect. Disconnects were now happening every one or
> two minutes. I disconnected the other three wires (B/W, O/W, and W/B) and
> the connection was solid. I tried connecting the B/W and W/B only, leaving
> the ringing wire disconnected. This worked. The DSL connection is solid
> and all my 'phones still ring. Everything now works so I put everything
> back together.
>
> It seems to me that the main problem was the external bell and that needs
> replacing. It also seems that there is a problem somewhere on the ringing
> circuit which I have bypassed by disconnecting the wire. However, there
> was not a problem before the external bell failed. What could have
> happened, please? Could the bell have caused a problem elsewhere? Other
> than replacing the external bell, should I be doing anything else?


You don't tell us about the ADSL filtering.
Ideally you should have a single filter at the NTE5 or
a filtered faceplate. All the phones and the bell should
be wired to the POTS side of this filter.
Are you filtering as above, at a single point, or are you using
multiple filters at the individual extension sockets?
From what you say it doesn't sound as if the bell was
filtered at all; it is essential that it is.
What makes you think the bell is faulty, has it stopped making a noise?

--
Graham

%Profound_observation%

On Sun, 04 May 2008 21:30:15 +0100, Howard Neil wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Today I have had a wiring fault. I have corrected it but I am puzzled by
> it and would like to learn what has happened in case it ever happens
> again.
>
> Basically, my router kept dropping DSL every few seconds. I checked with
> the test socket and got a solid connection. I went to the first slave
> socket and disconnected any extensions from there. No good. I took the
> faceplate off and disconnected the external bell that runs from there.
> Much better, but not perfect. Disconnects were now happening every one
> or two minutes. I disconnected the other three wires (B/W, O/W, and W/B)
> and the connection was solid. I tried connecting the B/W and W/B only,
> leaving the ringing wire disconnected. This worked. The DSL connection
> is solid and all my 'phones still ring. Everything now works so I put
> everything back together.
>
> It seems to me that the main problem was the external bell and that
> needs replacing. It also seems that there is a problem somewhere on the
> ringing circuit which I have bypassed by disconnecting the wire.
> However, there was not a problem before the external bell failed. What
> could have happened, please? Could the bell have caused a problem
> elsewhere? Other than replacing the external bell, should I be doing
> anything else?

AFAIR there has long been an issue with the bell wire unbalancing the
local circuit and inducing noise. Openreach have now introduced an NTE5
faceplate with a choke on the bell circuit to overcome this. How
successful it is I don't know, but I bet Kraftee does. This may be
helpful: www.buzzhost.co.uk/nte5.php

Graham. wrote:

> You don't tell us about the ADSL filtering.
> Ideally you should have a single filter at the NTE5 or
> a filtered faceplate. All the phones and the bell should
> be wired to the POTS side of this filter.
> Are you filtering as above, at a single point, or are you using
> multiple filters at the individual extension sockets?

I have two filters; one from the master socket to the modem (this worked
fine when plugged into the test socket) and one from the slave socket.
The fault occurred even with this second filter out of the socket so was
not to blame.

> From what you say it doesn't sound as if the bell was
> filtered at all; it is essential that it is.

That sounds a very good point. No, it was not filtered but wired
directly into the slave socket. This throws up other questions:

1. Why did it work (as it has done for nearly 2 years) when wired like that?

2. What is the best way to take the bell wire to the filtered side of
the circuit? Attach the wires to a BT plug?

> What makes you think the bell is faulty, has it stopped making a noise?

I don't know. I am basing this on the difference it made to the fault.
Disconnected, the fault was considerable better. Perhaps I should try it
filtered. The only problem there is that I have now disconnected the
orange ringing wire. Will the bell work across B/W and W/B? I always
thought that one side needed to be connected to the ringing circuit.


--
Howard Neil

Christian wrote:

> AFAIR there has long been an issue with the bell wire unbalancing the
> local circuit and inducing noise. Openreach have now introduced an NTE5
> faceplate with a choke on the bell circuit to overcome this. How
> successful it is I don't know, but I bet Kraftee does. This may be
> helpful: www.buzzhost.co.uk/nte5.php

Thanks for that. It looks very interesting. Being a master socket that
might present me with other difficulties. I wonder if BT keep records as
to type of equipment installed?


--
Howard Neil

On Mon, 5 May 2008 09:36:03 UTC, Howard Neil
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> Graham. wrote:
>
> > You don't tell us about the ADSL filtering.
> > Ideally you should have a single filter at the NTE5 or
> > a filtered faceplate. All the phones and the bell should
> > be wired to the POTS side of this filter.
> > Are you filtering as above, at a single point, or are you using
> > multiple filters at the individual extension sockets?
>
> I have two filters; one from the master socket to the modem (this worked
> fine when plugged into the test socket) and one from the slave socket.
> The fault occurred even with this second filter out of the socket so was
> not to blame.
>
> > From what you say it doesn't sound as if the bell was
> > filtered at all; it is essential that it is.
>
> That sounds a very good point. No, it was not filtered but wired
> directly into the slave socket. This throws up other questions:
>
> 1. Why did it work (as it has done for nearly 2 years) when wired like that?
>
> 2. What is the best way to take the bell wire to the filtered side of
> the circuit? Attach the wires to a BT plug?

<snip>

You don't need the ring wire. Most modern phones work just on A & B.
And even if they don't, an ADSL filter will re-generate the ring
signal anyway.
--
Regards
Dave Saville

NB Remove nospam. for good email address

Dave Saville wrote:
> On Mon, 5 May 2008 09:36:03 UTC, Howard Neil
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Graham. wrote:
>>
>>> You don't tell us about the ADSL filtering.
>>> Ideally you should have a single filter at the NTE5 or
>>> a filtered faceplate. All the phones and the bell should
>>> be wired to the POTS side of this filter.
>>> Are you filtering as above, at a single point, or are you using
>>> multiple filters at the individual extension sockets?
>> I have two filters; one from the master socket to the modem (this worked
>> fine when plugged into the test socket) and one from the slave socket.
>> The fault occurred even with this second filter out of the socket so was
>> not to blame.
>>
>>> From what you say it doesn't sound as if the bell was
>>> filtered at all; it is essential that it is.
>> That sounds a very good point. No, it was not filtered but wired
>> directly into the slave socket. This throws up other questions:
>>
>> 1. Why did it work (as it has done for nearly 2 years) when wired like that?
>>
>> 2. What is the best way to take the bell wire to the filtered side of
>> the circuit? Attach the wires to a BT plug?
>
> <snip>
>
> You don't need the ring wire. Most modern phones work just on A & B.
> And even if they don't, an ADSL filter will re-generate the ring
> signal anyway.

Interesting. I always thought that an external bell required greater
power (supplied by the ring wire). It is clearly time for experimentation.



--
Howard Neil

On Mon, 05 May 2008 10:42:13 +0100, Howard Neil wrote:

> Christian wrote:
>
>> AFAIR there has long been an issue with the bell wire unbalancing the
>> local circuit and inducing noise. Openreach have now introduced an NTE5
>> faceplate with a choke on the bell circuit to overcome this. How
>> successful it is I don't know, but I bet Kraftee does. This may be
>> helpful: www.buzzhost.co.uk/nte5.php
>
> Thanks for that. It looks very interesting. Being a master socket that
> might present me with other difficulties. I wonder if BT keep records as
> to type of equipment installed?

Not a problem. Glad it was useful in part.

BT used to keep records of the installation and socket type. Sometimes it
is still stuck in the customer rental details, but all that kind of thing
is largely ignored. With the fragmentation of it all the left hand has a
problem knowing what the right hand is meant to be doing in any case.

If your 'other difficulties' would be resolved by a change from a master
socket to an NTE, then it may be worth mentioning it so you can get the
best advice from the good people in here.

> Interesting. I always thought that an external bell required greater
> power (supplied by the ring wire). It is clearly time for experimentation.

I found that an old trembler solenoid extension bell severely
degraded my speed.
By experimenting I've found that too low an impedence
across the POTs side affects the ADSL side, try
shorting out the POT's side and ADSL stops.
Long extension leads also pick up noise, bearing
in mind that ADSL is low level, high frequency,
signals. You can't alter the line between you
and the exchange, you can only do everything
possible to avoid degrading your S/N ratio.

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>> Interesting. I always thought that an external bell required greater
>> power (supplied by the ring wire). It is clearly time for experimentation.
>
> I found that an old trembler solenoid extension bell severely
> degraded my speed.
> By experimenting I've found that too low an impedence
> across the POTs side affects the ADSL side, try
> shorting out the POT's side and ADSL stops.
> Long extension leads also pick up noise, bearing
> in mind that ADSL is low level, high frequency,
> signals. You can't alter the line between you
> and the exchange, you can only do everything
> possible to avoid degrading your S/N ratio.


Funnily enough, this is an old trembler solenoid bell and speeds seem
better than normal today. Perhaps I should manage without it. I do have
a DECT 'phone so can cope without it.

--
Howard Neil