Providing service to an entire rural/wooded valley (cost , can it be done cheaper)

YSC-NB141207 14" x 12" x 7" Fiberglass NEMA Enclosure (remove) $67.99
$67.99
YSC-HG2414P-XX 2.4 GHz 14dB Flat Patch Panel Wireless LAN Antenna
(remove)
Connector Type: N-Female
$37.95 $37.95
YSC-AXA-NMRTP N-Male to RP-TNC Plug Adapter (2-Pack) (remove) $9.98
$9.98
YSC-HA2401RTGXE1000 1 Watt 2.4 GHz 802.11g (b/g) Power-Over-Ethernet
WiFi Amplifier (remove) $269.95 $269.95
YSC-BT-CAT5-R1 Power-Over-Ethernet (PoE) Single Regulated Tap (remove)
Select Model: YSC-BT-CAT5-R1-12
$39.95 $39.95
YSC-BT-CAT5-P1-XXXX Power-Over-Ethernet (PoE) Passive Injector / Tap
Kits (remove)
Kit Model Numbers: YSCBT-CAT5-P1-4840
$79.99 $79.99
YSC-CA-RTPRTPF002 Wireless LAN Pigtail Cable RP-TNC Plug to RP-TNC
Plug, 2 ft. (remove) $18.95 $18.95
Subtotal: $524.76
Actual cost to be determined: $0.00
Grand Total: $524.76


---

Can I get the same equipment for less cost than this? (please let me
know where).

[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

What is the "WiFi Amplifier"?

What exactly are you trying to do? Set up a wireless repeater? Wired service
to Wi-Fi link?

In <(E-Mail Removed). com> on 4 Apr 2006
16:46:22 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>YSC-NB141207 14" x 12" x 7" Fiberglass NEMA Enclosure (remove) $67.99
> $67.99
>YSC-HG2414P-XX 2.4 GHz 14dB Flat Patch Panel Wireless LAN Antenna
>(remove)
>Connector Type: N-Female
> $37.95 $37.95
>YSC-AXA-NMRTP N-Male to RP-TNC Plug Adapter (2-Pack) (remove) $9.98
> $9.98
>YSC-HA2401RTGXE1000 1 Watt 2.4 GHz 802.11g (b/g) Power-Over-Ethernet
>WiFi Amplifier (remove) $269.95 $269.95
>YSC-BT-CAT5-R1 Power-Over-Ethernet (PoE) Single Regulated Tap (remove)
>Select Model: YSC-BT-CAT5-R1-12
> $39.95 $39.95
>YSC-BT-CAT5-P1-XXXX Power-Over-Ethernet (PoE) Passive Injector / Tap
>Kits (remove)
>Kit Model Numbers: YSCBT-CAT5-P1-4840
> $79.99 $79.99
>YSC-CA-RTPRTPF002 Wireless LAN Pigtail Cable RP-TNC Plug to RP-TNC
>Plug, 2 ft. (remove) $18.95 $18.95
> Subtotal: $524.76
> Actual cost to be determined: $0.00
> Grand Total: $524.76
>
>
>---
>
>Can I get the same equipment for less cost than this? (please let me
>know where).

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR ALT.INTERNET.WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/FAQ_for_alt.internet.wireless>

On 4 Apr 2006 16:46:22 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>YSC-HA2401RTGXE1000 1 Watt 2.4 GHz 802.11g (b/g) Power-Over-Ethernet
>WiFi Amplifier (remove) $269.95 $269.95

Yep. You'll be heard all over the valley with this 1 watt
transmitter. Too bad you won't be able to hear any replies from the
client radios because they're only using a few milliwatts. That's
called an "alligator" or an animal with a big mouth and very small
ears. I prefer to call it an RF polluter, but that's not being very
diplomatic. Loose the power amplifier.

>Can I get the same equipment for less cost than this? (please let me
>know where).

Dunno. You left out all the manufacturers and their part numbers.
Looks like you posted a quotation from some dealer. There are
equipment dealers lurking on this list. I'll let them contact you.
However, if you can't find anything cheaper, you can always just punch
in the manufacturer and part number into Froogle and get the lowest
price:
http://froogle.google.com

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

The amp is to contact the access point on the far end of the valley (2
miles away, which also has an amp and directional antenna to this
area.).


That's the reason for the amp, to make the distance to the other access
point. and to quite honestly, burn through the trees. The line of
sight distance to the other access point is very close to the horizon
(more trees).

Initial tests, show the connection can be made if both sides of the
connection are running at 200 mw. But we get -89-90 signal. Not
enough for a stable connection.

1 watt amp doesn't sound legal.

Mike Schumann

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> The amp is to contact the access point on the far end of the valley (2
> miles away, which also has an amp and directional antenna to this
> area.).
>
>
> That's the reason for the amp, to make the distance to the other access
> point. and to quite honestly, burn through the trees. The line of
> sight distance to the other access point is very close to the horizon
> (more trees).
>
> Initial tests, show the connection can be made if both sides of the
> connection are running at 200 mw. But we get -89-90 signal. Not
> enough for a stable connection.
>

[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

Depends on the antenna. 1 watt is legal if the antenna gain is no more than
6dBi. Since his antenna has higher gain than that, it's not legal.

In <iTQYf.319$(E-Mail Removed) t> on Wed, 05 Apr 2006
14:55:10 GMT, "Mike Schumann" <mike-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>1 watt amp doesn't sound legal.
>
>Mike Schumann
>
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed) roups.com...
>> The amp is to contact the access point on the far end of the valley (2
>> miles away, which also has an amp and directional antenna to this
>> area.).
>>
>>
>> That's the reason for the amp, to make the distance to the other access
>> point. and to quite honestly, burn through the trees. The line of
>> sight distance to the other access point is very close to the horizon
>> (more trees).
>>
>> Initial tests, show the connection can be made if both sides of the
>> connection are running at 200 mw. But we get -89-90 signal. Not
>> enough for a stable connection.
>>
>

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR ALT.INTERNET.WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/FAQ_for_alt.internet.wireless>

(E-Mail Removed) hath wroth:

>The amp is to contact the access point on the far end of the valley (2
>miles away, which also has an amp and directional antenna to this
>area.).

So, you're going to be legally limited to a 6dBi antenna on this link.
Such antennas are not very directional. If you're also operating a
wireless system for clients in the same band, you're going to create
substantial inteference.

Howeve, you mention "directional" antenna. You're still limited to
6dBi gain whether omni or directional with 1 watt out. See FCC
15.247(?) for the confusing rules and regs. If you're going to use a
higher gain antenna, you're going to go well over the FCC limit.

Looking through your list, I see a 14dBi panel antenna which I presume
is the corresponding link antenna. That's well over the limit and
totally illegal. Were you to setup such a contrivance in my backyard,
I would instantly report you to the FCC enforcement bureau as a gross
polluter of the airwaves.

So, lets see what can be done without the power amplifier (which is
incidentally the most expensive item on your shopping list). Start at
for link calculations:
| http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/FAQ_for...k_Calculations

I'll make a few guesses as to your hardware and setup. Please correct
as required.
TX power = +15dBm
TX coax loss = 4dB (3ft LMR-240 plus a mess of connectors)
TX ant gain = +14dBi
Distance = 2 miles
RX ant gain = +14dBi
RX coax loss = 4dB (same at other end)
RX sens = -84dBm (at 12Mbits/sec)
Fade margin = unknown
Plugging into:
http://www.terabeam.com/support/calculations/som.php
I get a fade margin of 8 dB which will not work. Changing the
antennas to 24dBi barbeque grill antennas, this becomes a fade margin
of 29dB which is well above the recommended 20dB minimum and will work
just fine.

Loose the amplifiers and get some bigger antenna.

>That's the reason for the amp, to make the distance to the other access
>point. and to quite honestly, burn through the trees.

Oh, you have trees? How thick, what type, how many? Such things can
be calculated (or guessed). Your 1 watt amplifier will yield a gain
of about 15dB over the un-amplified output of about 15dBm. A MUCH
cheaper dish antenna will yield 24dBi. You also have the benifits of
having a much narrower beamwidth so that you pollute the valley. Also,
the rules for point to point are quite different. With a 24dBi dish,
you can legally run 24dBm power output maximum (about 300mw).

>The line of
>sight distance to the other access point is very close to the horizon
>(more trees).

Well, that's another problem. If you're that close to the ground, the
Fresnel zone clearance will be a major problem:
http://www.terabeam.com/support/calc...esnel-zone.php
At 2 miles, you have to have 26ft of clearance around the alleged line
of sight.

>Initial tests,

Initial test using what equipment?

> show the connection can be made if both sides of the
>connection are running at 200 mw. But we get -89-90 signal. Not
>enough for a stable connection.

I suggest you look into 900MHz equipment that is made for going
through trees:
http://www.wavewireless.com/SPEEDAccess_text.html
http://www.avalanwireless.com
--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>Your 1 watt amplifier will yield a gain
>of about 15dB over the un-amplified output of about 15dBm. A MUCH
>cheaper dish antenna will yield 24dBi. You also have the benifits of
>having a much narrower beamwidth so that you pollute the valley. Also,
>the rules for point to point are quite different. With a 24dBi dish,
>you can legally run 24dBm power output maximum (about 300mw).

That's what happens when I try to talk on the phone while writing. It
should say:

Your 1 watt amplifier will yield additional gain of about 15dB over
the un-amplified output of about +15dBm. A much cheaper dish antenna
will yield 24dB of additional gain. You also have the benifits of
having a much narrower beamwidth so that you will not pollute the
valley with your overly broad and over powered signal. Also, the
rules for point to point are different than point to multipoint. With
a 24dBi dish, you can legally run 24dBm power output maximum (about
300mw).

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Talk about thread jacking . . .

Please imagine this entire thread without any talk or mention of the
amplier. Now, if you hadn't jumped on the 'bash the amplifier' band
wagon. Could you have mentioned cheaper alternatives than to what was
already mentioned?

The 900 mhz solution has been previously considered, but rejected
because the base systems run around $1,000.

---

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

> Talk about thread jacking . . .

Despite your ignorant refusal to quote, I was able to figure out what you're
talking about.

> Please imagine this entire thread without any talk or mention of the
> amplier. Now, if you hadn't jumped on the 'bash the amplifier' band
> wagon. Could you have mentioned cheaper alternatives than to what was
> already mentioned?

He just _did_. Isn't this pretty clear?

> Your 1 watt amplifier will yield additional gain of about 15dB over
> the un-amplified output of about +15dBm. A much cheaper dish antenna
> will yield 24dB of additional gain.

When Jeff gives you options, you should really listen.
--
derek