Problems with wireless and Vista Business laptop

I am installing & testing a guest WLAN. The wireless products are D-Link
(router and AP's). The laptop is a Dell Latitude D820 recently upgraded
from WinXP SP3 to Vista Business.

Problem: I can connect and get an IP from the wireless router from all AP's
when they are wired (CAT5 cable) directly to the router. But I can't get an
IP when the AP is NOT wired to the router. I can't tell if it's my
configuration or something within Vista.

All AP's and the router use the same SSID and channel. All AP's have a
static IP, reserved on the router, Security is WPA-Personal. All AP's are
in AP mode.

I've tried each AP - from initial setup to completion and all exhibit this
problem. Did setup for each at the location they are installed at, so it's
not the cabling or wall plug-in. All are 75-100-ft from, each other with
walls in between, so interference should be minimal. Signal strength is
Excellent.

Can't find anything useful in the laptop's Application or Event logs, and
nothing remarkable in the AP or router logs. All I can get is a connection
(with a message that it "seems to be taking too long"), then it says
'Connected', but the IP is a machine IP (169.x.x.x). (The router is setup as
a DHCP server with the reserved IP's all at the far end of the pool. No
conflicts in the table.

So ... any ideas?

--
Mike Webb
Platte River Whooping Crane Maintenance Trust, Inc.
a conservation non-profit (501 (c)(3)) organization
Wood River, NE

Hi
I fail to see why the issue relates to the Wireless computers.
Under normal configuration Access Points do have to be connected with cables
to the Source Wireless Router.
If you want the Access Points to can act as Repeaters, or build a WDS system
(I.e., communicate via Wireless with both the source and the wireless
computers), you need Access Points that can be configured in these Modes
(Repeater , or WDS) and a Wireless Router that supports it.
Wireless Modes - http://www.ezlan.net/Wireless_Modes.html
Jack (MS, MVP-Networking)

"Mike in Nebraska" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>I am installing & testing a guest WLAN. The wireless products are D-Link
>(router and AP's). The laptop is a Dell Latitude D820 recently upgraded
>from WinXP SP3 to Vista Business.
>
> Problem: I can connect and get an IP from the wireless router from all
> AP's when they are wired (CAT5 cable) directly to the router. But I can't
> get an IP when the AP is NOT wired to the router. I can't tell if it's my
> configuration or something within Vista.
>
> All AP's and the router use the same SSID and channel. All AP's have a
> static IP, reserved on the router, Security is WPA-Personal. All AP's
> are in AP mode.
>
> I've tried each AP - from initial setup to completion and all exhibit this
> problem. Did setup for each at the location they are installed at, so
> it's not the cabling or wall plug-in. All are 75-100-ft from, each other
> with walls in between, so interference should be minimal. Signal strength
> is Excellent.
>
> Can't find anything useful in the laptop's Application or Event logs, and
> nothing remarkable in the AP or router logs. All I can get is a
> connection (with a message that it "seems to be taking too long"), then it
> says 'Connected', but the IP is a machine IP (169.x.x.x). (The router is
> setup as a DHCP server with the reserved IP's all at the far end of the
> pool. No conflicts in the table.
>
> So ... any ideas?
>
> --
> Mike Webb
> Platte River Whooping Crane Maintenance Trust, Inc.
> a conservation non-profit (501 (c)(3)) organization
> Wood River, NE

"Mike in Nebraska" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Problem: I can connect and get an IP from the wireless router from all
> AP's when they are wired (CAT5 cable) directly to the router. But I can't
> get an IP when the AP is NOT wired to the router.

IP#s don't come from APs. APs do not provide DHCP. APs are nothing more
than the wireless equivalent of a Hub or Switch.

The AP must be connected to the "router" via cable. The DHCP is provided by
the "router" or by a DHCP Service running on a Server.

APs configured as Bridges only operate as Bridges and will no longer operate
as an AP. Jack's post gave more details on the Modes.

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

I appreciate your time, but have a follow-on (forgive me if this is too
basic): The D-Link AP's can be set in WDS mode, WDS with AP mode (can act
as both simultaneously), or AP mode. From what you say, and as contained on
the site you referred me to, then AP mode AP's should/must be wired, while
WDS & WDS with AP mode AP's can/usually are "wireless"?

If so, then I should have the "exit point" AP in my main building (the one
wired to the router and with an outdoor antenna to 'reach' the other
buildings) in either WDS or WDS with AP mode (with MAC's of the remote AP's
in it's table), and the remote AP's should also be in either WDS or WDS with
AP mode with the "exit point" AP and other remote AP's MAC's in their
tables. Correct?

Mike

"Jack (MVP-Networking)." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi
> I fail to see why the issue relates to the Wireless computers.
> Under normal configuration Access Points do have to be connected with
> cables to the Source Wireless Router.
> If you want the Access Points to can act as Repeaters, or build a WDS
> system (I.e., communicate via Wireless with both the source and the
> wireless computers), you need Access Points that can be configured in
> these Modes (Repeater , or WDS) and a Wireless Router that supports it.
> Wireless Modes - http://www.ezlan.net/Wireless_Modes.html
> Jack (MS, MVP-Networking)
>
> "Mike in Nebraska" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>I am installing & testing a guest WLAN. The wireless products are D-Link
>>(router and AP's). The laptop is a Dell Latitude D820 recently upgraded
>>from WinXP SP3 to Vista Business.
>>
>> Problem: I can connect and get an IP from the wireless router from all
>> AP's when they are wired (CAT5 cable) directly to the router. But I
>> can't get an IP when the AP is NOT wired to the router. I can't tell if
>> it's my configuration or something within Vista.
>>
>> All AP's and the router use the same SSID and channel. All AP's have a
>> static IP, reserved on the router, Security is WPA-Personal. All AP's
>> are in AP mode.
>>
>> I've tried each AP - from initial setup to completion and all exhibit
>> this problem. Did setup for each at the location they are installed at,
>> so it's not the cabling or wall plug-in. All are 75-100-ft from, each
>> other with walls in between, so interference should be minimal. Signal
>> strength is Excellent.
>>
>> Can't find anything useful in the laptop's Application or Event logs, and
>> nothing remarkable in the AP or router logs. All I can get is a
>> connection (with a message that it "seems to be taking too long"), then
>> it says 'Connected', but the IP is a machine IP (169.x.x.x). (The router
>> is setup as a DHCP server with the reserved IP's all at the far end of
>> the pool. No conflicts in the table.
>>
>> So ... any ideas?
>>
>> --
>> Mike Webb
>> Platte River Whooping Crane Maintenance Trust, Inc.
>> a conservation non-profit (501 (c)(3)) organization
>> Wood River, NE
>

"Mike in Nebraska" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>I appreciate your time, but have a follow-on (forgive me if this is too
>basic): The D-Link AP's can be set in WDS mode, WDS with AP mode (can act
>as both simultaneously), or AP mode. From what you say, and as contained
>on the site you referred me to, then AP mode AP's should/must be wired,
>while WDS & WDS with AP mode AP's can/usually are "wireless"?

That goes back to one of my other posts where I indicated that I always give
a particular device only one job to do rather than make it a multi-purpose
device. Things are a lot simpler to deal with that way. Just because a
product claims to operate in more than one way at the same time does not
always mean that it does so very well.

> If so, then I should have the "exit point" AP in my main building (the one
> wired to the router and with an outdoor antenna to 'reach' the other
> buildings) in either WDS or WDS with AP mode (with MAC's of the remote
> AP's in it's table), and the remote AP's should also be in either WDS or
> WDS with AP mode with the "exit point" AP and other remote AP's MAC's in
> their tables. Correct?

Little hard to follow your description,..but it sounds correct, I think.

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

Sorry about the readability. It boils down to: all devices in a particular
mode should only be "talking" to devices in the same mode. For instance, if
my "exit point" AP is in WDS mode then all AP"s with outdoor antenna's that
serve as "entry/exit points" for their buildings should also be in WDS mode.
Correct? Then all AP's wired to a WDS mode AP can be in whatever mode I
choose.

Mike

"Phillip Windell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Mike in Nebraska" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>I appreciate your time, but have a follow-on (forgive me if this is too
>>basic): The D-Link AP's can be set in WDS mode, WDS with AP mode (can act
>>as both simultaneously), or AP mode. From what you say, and as contained
>>on the site you referred me to, then AP mode AP's should/must be wired,
>>while WDS & WDS with AP mode AP's can/usually are "wireless"?
>
> That goes back to one of my other posts where I indicated that I always
> give a particular device only one job to do rather than make it a
> multi-purpose device. Things are a lot simpler to deal with that way.
> Just because a product claims to operate in more than one way at the same
> time does not always mean that it does so very well.
>
>> If so, then I should have the "exit point" AP in my main building (the
>> one wired to the router and with an outdoor antenna to 'reach' the other
>> buildings) in either WDS or WDS with AP mode (with MAC's of the remote
>> AP's in it's table), and the remote AP's should also be in either WDS or
>> WDS with AP mode with the "exit point" AP and other remote AP's MAC's in
>> their tables. Correct?
>
> Little hard to follow your description,..but it sounds correct, I think.
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
> www.wandtv.com
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
> Microsoft,
> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>

Got it working, with your help and Mr. Windell's! A designated AP in each
building (with an outdoor antenna) is now set in WDS (only) mode. Each has
the appropriate AP's MAC addresses in it's table, to include the LAN port
MAC of the wireless router for the other building. The other building's AP
is wired to an ethernet switch, and the AP's in that building (in AP mode)
are also wired to that switch.

Works like a champ!
Mike

"Jack (MVP-Networking)." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi
> I fail to see why the issue relates to the Wireless computers.
> Under normal configuration Access Points do have to be connected with
> cables to the Source Wireless Router.
> If you want the Access Points to can act as Repeaters, or build a WDS
> system (I.e., communicate via Wireless with both the source and the
> wireless computers), you need Access Points that can be configured in
> these Modes (Repeater , or WDS) and a Wireless Router that supports it.
> Wireless Modes - http://www.ezlan.net/Wireless_Modes.html
> Jack (MS, MVP-Networking)
>
> "Mike in Nebraska" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>I am installing & testing a guest WLAN. The wireless products are D-Link
>>(router and AP's). The laptop is a Dell Latitude D820 recently upgraded
>>from WinXP SP3 to Vista Business.
>>
>> Problem: I can connect and get an IP from the wireless router from all
>> AP's when they are wired (CAT5 cable) directly to the router. But I
>> can't get an IP when the AP is NOT wired to the router. I can't tell if
>> it's my configuration or something within Vista.
>>
>> All AP's and the router use the same SSID and channel. All AP's have a
>> static IP, reserved on the router, Security is WPA-Personal. All AP's
>> are in AP mode.
>>
>> I've tried each AP - from initial setup to completion and all exhibit
>> this problem. Did setup for each at the location they are installed at,
>> so it's not the cabling or wall plug-in. All are 75-100-ft from, each
>> other with walls in between, so interference should be minimal. Signal
>> strength is Excellent.
>>
>> Can't find anything useful in the laptop's Application or Event logs, and
>> nothing remarkable in the AP or router logs. All I can get is a
>> connection (with a message that it "seems to be taking too long"), then
>> it says 'Connected', but the IP is a machine IP (169.x.x.x). (The router
>> is setup as a DHCP server with the reserved IP's all at the far end of
>> the pool. No conflicts in the table.
>>
>> So ... any ideas?
>>
>> --
>> Mike Webb
>> Platte River Whooping Crane Maintenance Trust, Inc.
>> a conservation non-profit (501 (c)(3)) organization
>> Wood River, NE
>

Very good.
Good job Mike! I know you've been fighting with connectivity in those
buildings for a long time. The first time we looked at that was what?...a
year ago?

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------


"Mike in Nebraska" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Got it working, with your help and Mr. Windell's! A designated AP in each
> building (with an outdoor antenna) is now set in WDS (only) mode. Each
> has the appropriate AP's MAC addresses in it's table, to include the LAN
> port MAC of the wireless router for the other building. The other
> building's AP is wired to an ethernet switch, and the AP's in that
> building (in AP mode) are also wired to that switch.
>
> Works like a champ!
> Mike

That's right. I'd work on it for a while, put it away, then come back to
it. Very frustrating. My problem is that the "basics" or how and WHY you
set up the various sorts of WLAN's is not documented - at least as far as I
can find - on the internet. I've actually spent almost 2 years on this -
the first year was with D-Link tech support - 2nd tier - to find a way to
configure my switch (D-Link DES-3828, capable of VLAN's) and AP's to that I
could run Guest WLAN's through a VLAN and separate from my network. I quit
after they quit offering to continue helping. Glad I stuck with it.

Mike
"Phillip Windell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Very good.
> Good job Mike! I know you've been fighting with connectivity in those
> buildings for a long time. The first time we looked at that was what?...a
> year ago?
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
> www.wandtv.com
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
> Microsoft,
> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "Mike in Nebraska" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Got it working, with your help and Mr. Windell's! A designated AP in
>> each building (with an outdoor antenna) is now set in WDS (only) mode.
>> Each has the appropriate AP's MAC addresses in it's table, to include the
>> LAN port MAC of the wireless router for the other building. The other
>> building's AP is wired to an ethernet switch, and the AP's in that
>> building (in AP mode) are also wired to that switch.
>>
>> Works like a champ!
>> Mike
>
>