PPPoE and ADSL problem (1 solution)

---

Hi,

I recently re-installed linux as a second operating system along WinXP. I
had huge problems getting up the internet connection (For finnish
googlers: Baana, Cisco, 575 LRE). I managed to connect exactly 2 times
(both with perfect connections). But after I'd shutdown and restarted, the
system, it failed to connect with _any_ the PPPoE clients I found on the
net.

Ok, the solution:

I never turned off (complete shutdown) the computer _and_ the ADSL modem.
It seems that XP puts the modem or the network card to some sort of
hibernate (or powersave) when it terminates (sigh). Linux then doesn't
automagically reset the setting... On my modem this is apparent from the
fact that the eth - light on the box "can't be lit" with normal means
(like ifconfig or ifup).

So it was Windows after all...

Does anyone know a more flexible way to solve this? I want to be able to
'restart' windows and boot directly to Linux.

"Tero Pihlajakoski" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bqief1$21f$(E-Mail Removed)...
> ---
>
> Hi,
>
> I recently re-installed linux as a second operating system along WinXP. I
> had huge problems getting up the internet connection (For finnish
> googlers: Baana, Cisco, 575 LRE). I managed to connect exactly 2 times
> (both with perfect connections). But after I'd shutdown and restarted, the
> system, it failed to connect with _any_ the PPPoE clients I found on the
> net.
>
> Ok, the solution:
>
> I never turned off (complete shutdown) the computer _and_ the ADSL modem.
> It seems that XP puts the modem or the network card to some sort of
> hibernate (or powersave) when it terminates (sigh). Linux then doesn't
> automagically reset the setting... On my modem this is apparent from the
> fact that the eth - light on the box "can't be lit" with normal means
> (like ifconfig or ifup).
>
> So it was Windows after all...
>
> Does anyone know a more flexible way to solve this? I want to be able to
> 'restart' windows and boot directly to Linux.
>
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you'll have to do a complete
shutdown from Win and then boot into Linux. As you've already discovered,
Win leaves the NIC in a state of limbo that I've never found a way to
resolve w/o a cold start of the machine. Fortunately, going from Linux to
Win does not have the same problem.

JW

"Jacob Westenbach" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:K85zb.73721$(E-Mail Removed).. .
> "Tero Pihlajakoski" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:bqief1$21f$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > ---
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I recently re-installed linux as a second operating system along WinXP.
I
> > had huge problems getting up the internet connection (For finnish
> > googlers: Baana, Cisco, 575 LRE). I managed to connect exactly 2 times
> > (both with perfect connections). But after I'd shutdown and restarted,
the
> > system, it failed to connect with _any_ the PPPoE clients I found on the
> > net.
> >
> > Ok, the solution:
> >
> > I never turned off (complete shutdown) the computer _and_ the ADSL
modem.
> > It seems that XP puts the modem or the network card to some sort of
> > hibernate (or powersave) when it terminates (sigh). Linux then doesn't
> > automagically reset the setting... On my modem this is apparent from the
> > fact that the eth - light on the box "can't be lit" with normal means
> > (like ifconfig or ifup).
> >
> > So it was Windows after all...
> >
> > Does anyone know a more flexible way to solve this? I want to be able to
> > 'restart' windows and boot directly to Linux.
> >
> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you'll have to do a complete
> shutdown from Win and then boot into Linux. As you've already discovered,
> Win leaves the NIC in a state of limbo that I've never found a way to
> resolve w/o a cold start of the machine. Fortunately, going from Linux to
> Win does not have the same problem.
>
> JW
>

These conclusions don't seem quite right to me. You will find plenty
of evidence of win xp and linux dual booting and linux having connection
problems of a more advanced nature such as can only use numerical
ip addresses not alphabetical, which means the connection is made but
there is a hosts file un/mis configured. There is no need to turn off
computer.

I think the most likely reason is that the dsl service has not been
stopped. I think it is worth exploring. The win xp pppoe driver
works excellently and is easy to setup. Try clicking on "disconnect"
before restarting the computer and booting into linux. In linux I've
seen scripts for adsl start and asdl stop which I think follows the
idea of ppp-on (pon) and ppp-off (poff). I may be wrong, but I
think turning off the computer terminates the active dsl connection
which is properly terminated by "disconnect" or similar. Whether
this is a bug or not? Most ISPs now offer "Instant On" pppoe
connections by default rather than Always On. I haven't come
across enough information to say this situation is a windows bug
rather than an inconvenient default setting for one personally.

For instance the swat file in Samba is generated automatically
with disable = yes (in Samba 3pre+) when in order to use
swat that entry should read disable = no One would think
that most new users would want to use swat and that older
users don't use swat at all so that the default should be set
to disable = no which means swat is enabled. It is hard to
say if that is a bug or mistaken judgment, without having all the
information available to the programmer who makes the decision.

This may bring up issues with static and/or fixed IP addresses.
On my machine, I dual boot win xp and RH9 with one shared
Nic card without a problem. So do countless others. This leads
me to believe it is not the Nic card itself but due to user practice.

When the linux connection is working you could print out all
the relevant configuration files for the connection. Then create
the problem by booting into windows xp. Print out all the relevant
configuration files and see if they are identical to the working ones.
If they are not identical it is a linux config problem. If they are
identical then it points to the Nic card still in use because the
service on the card has not been terminated. A bit of a pain which
is why I think you should skip to troubleshooting the benefits or
not of turning the service off (disconnect) in windows first and
see what happens. It is an easy step to try.

Regards,
Stephen

Stephen Harris <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> "Jacob Westenbach" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:K85zb.73721$(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> "Tero Pihlajakoski" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:bqief1$21f$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> > ---
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I recently re-installed linux as a second operating system along WinXP.
> I
>> > had huge problems getting up the internet connection (For finnish
>> > googlers: Baana, Cisco, 575 LRE). I managed to connect exactly 2 times
>> > (both with perfect connections). But after I'd shutdown and restarted,
> the
>> > system, it failed to connect with _any_ the PPPoE clients I found on the
>> > net.
>> >
>> > Ok, the solution:
>> >
>> > I never turned off (complete shutdown) the computer _and_ the ADSL
> modem.
>> > It seems that XP puts the modem or the network card to some sort of
>> > hibernate (or powersave) when it terminates (sigh). Linux then doesn't
>> > automagically reset the setting... On my modem this is apparent from the
>> > fact that the eth - light on the box "can't be lit" with normal means
>> > (like ifconfig or ifup).
>> >
>> > So it was Windows after all...
>> >
>> > Does anyone know a more flexible way to solve this? I want to be able to
>> > 'restart' windows and boot directly to Linux.
>> >
>> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you'll have to do a complete
>> shutdown from Win and then boot into Linux. As you've already discovered,
>> Win leaves the NIC in a state of limbo that I've never found a way to
>> resolve w/o a cold start of the machine. Fortunately, going from Linux to
>> Win does not have the same problem.
>>
>> JW
>>

> These conclusions don't seem quite right to me. You will find plenty
> of evidence of win xp and linux dual booting and linux having connection
> problems of a more advanced nature such as can only use numerical
> ip addresses not alphabetical, which means the connection is made but
> there is a hosts file un/mis configured. There is no need to turn off
> computer.

That was not the issue here. Oh, and if that's a hint of merealizing that
unlike windoze, linux can be configured without extensively rebooting the
system, then... ;-)

> I think the most likely reason is that the dsl service has not been
> stopped. I think it is worth exploring. The win xp pppoe driver
> works excellently and is easy to setup. Try clicking on "disconnect"
> before restarting the computer and booting into linux.

This may help, but restart, shutdown or hibernate should definitely ensure
no devices are left to 'limbo' (standby, that I understand . I use
hibernate extensively since I have five to ten UI apps running most of the
time and it's a pain to resume the work after an actual reboot, so not
terminating the connection and hibernating might be the _actual_ cause for
this phenomenon.

> In linux I've
> seen scripts for adsl start and asdl stop which I think follows the
> idea of ppp-on (pon) and ppp-off (poff). I may be wrong, but I
> think turning off the computer terminates the active dsl connection
> which is properly terminated by "disconnect" or similar. Whether
> this is a bug or not?

Well, I definitely wan't no-one to screw my system up so that I need to do
a hard-power off before the components work... So let's say it's an honest
bug :-)

In fact, wouldn't you call this a bug?:
- Put the plug in.
- Boot windows.
- Connect, play around, get some work done.
- Hibernate
- Press soft on and boot to linux
- _No_ network
- shutdown
- Pull the plug, wait a second, put it back in. (Or just flick the switch
,if you have one, on the power unit)
- Press soft on and boot to linux
- _Network_

> Most ISPs now offer "Instant On" pppoe
> connections by default rather than Always On. I haven't come
> across enough information to say this situation is a windows bug
> rather than an inconvenient default setting for one personally.

> For instance the swat file in Samba is generated automatically
> with disable = yes (in Samba 3pre+) when in order to use
> swat that entry should read disable = no One would think
> that most new users would want to use swat and that older
> users don't use swat at all so that the default should be set
> to disable = no which means swat is enabled. It is hard to
> say if that is a bug or mistaken judgment, without having all the
> information available to the programmer who makes the decision.

> This may bring up issues with static and/or fixed IP addresses.
> On my machine, I dual boot win xp and RH9 with one shared
> Nic card without a problem. So do countless others. This leads
> me to believe it is not the Nic card itself but due to user practice.

> When the linux connection is working you could print out all
> the relevant configuration files for the connection. Then create
> the problem by booting into windows xp. Print out all the relevant
> configuration files and see if they are identical to the working ones.

Tried it, they were. Everything seemed just perfect at first. The funky
stuff I got in this situation was with pppd not being able to use eth0
properly -> ppp0 not appearing (or appearing for the duration of
connection attempt == adsl/pppoe/...-start) in ifconfig.

> If they are not identical it is a linux config problem. If they are
> identical then it points to the Nic card still in use because the
> service on the card has not been terminated.

Couldn't figure this out myself since ifconfig and others let me set the
ip addr, bring it down, set it up etc. just fine.

> A bit of a pain which
> is why I think you should skip to troubleshooting the benefits or
> not of turning the service off (disconnect) in windows first and
> see what happens. It is an easy step to try.

Yeah, well, I admit I was a bit enthusiastic after getting it to work
after many hours of trying.

And hey, maybe someone has exactly the same problem and uses this as a
partial or temporary solution. (Possibly even finds that
H_KEY_WHATEVER.DisconnectOnHibernate = 0 from the windows registry)

Anyways: IMHO it's a win bug. Not a serious one, but definitely
frustrating: I tried to hack the linux for hours, but not hard-restarting
or using windows and thus disconnecting. It never occured to me that
hibernating (i.e. not disconnecting from win) could've caused the ppp0
creation to fail. Besides, after you reboot win from hibernation, the
connection is, of course, down...

> Regards,
> Stephen



--

"Tero Pihlajakoski" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bqj9f0$daf$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Stephen Harris <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > "Jacob Westenbach" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:K85zb.73721$(E-Mail Removed).. .
> >> "Tero Pihlajakoski" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >> news:bqief1$21f$(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> > ---
> >> > It seems that XP puts the modem or the network card to some sort of
> >> > hibernate (or powersave) when it terminates (sigh). Linux then
doesn't
> >> > automagically reset the setting... On my modem this is apparent from
the
> >> > fact that the eth - light on the box "can't be lit" with normal means
> >> > (like ifconfig or ifup).
> >> >
> >> > So it was Windows after all...
> >> >
> > These conclusions don't seem quite right to me. You will find plenty
> > of evidence of win xp and linux dual booting and linux having connection
> > problems of a more advanced nature such as can only use numerical
> > ip addresses not alphabetical, which means the connection is made but
> > there is a hosts file un/mis configured. There is no need to turn off
> > computer.
>
> That was not the issue here. Oh, and if that's a hint of merealizing that
> unlike windoze, linux can be configured without extensively rebooting the
> system, then... ;-)
>
> > I think the most likely reason is that the dsl service has not been
> > stopped. I think it is worth exploring. The win xp pppoe driver
> > works excellently and is easy to setup. Try clicking on "disconnect"
> > before restarting the computer and booting into linux.
>
> This may help, but restart, shutdown or hibernate should definitely ensure
> no devices are left to 'limbo' (standby, that I understand . I use
> hibernate extensively since I have five to ten UI apps running most of the
> time and it's a pain to resume the work after an actual reboot, so not
> terminating the connection and hibernating might be the _actual_ cause for
> this phenomenon.
>

Well you wrote:

> >> > It seems that XP puts the modem or the network card to some sort of
> >> > hibernate (or powersave) when it terminates (sigh). Linux then
doesn't
> >> > automagically reset the setting

"seems" indicates that it just happened naturally without user intervention.
That is why I pointed out their are hundreds and hundreds of Win XP
and linux dual boots that don't have this problem. Thus the situation was
created by user intervention which is why I wrote: "This leads me to
believe it is not the Nic card itself but due to user practice."

So I don't dispute that you may have good reason to employ hibernation
but your first message did not convey the idea that the hibernation was a
result of user intervention but rather this was its spontaneous behavior;
so that plotted the trajectory of my troubleshooting post.



> > In linux I've
> > seen scripts for adsl start and asdl stop which I think follows the
> > idea of ppp-on (pon) and ppp-off (poff). I may be wrong, but I
> > think turning off the computer terminates the active dsl connection
> > which is properly terminated by "disconnect" or similar. Whether
> > this is a bug or not?
>
> Well, I definitely wan't no-one to screw my system up so that I need to do
> a hard-power off before the components work... So let's say it's an honest
> bug :-)
>
> In fact, wouldn't you call this a bug?:
> - Put the plug in.
> - Boot windows.
> - Connect, play around, get some work done.
> - Hibernate
> - Press soft on and boot to linux
> - _No_ network
> - shutdown
> - Pull the plug, wait a second, put it back in. (Or just flick the switch
> ,if you have one, on the power unit)
> - Press soft on and boot to linux
> - _Network_
>

I don't know because I don't have enough information. MS calls
bug "issues" and I haven't searched their Knowledge Base. But
I did do a Google search with these keywords
linux windows xp dual boot nic card hibernation problem
and there weren't any hits. One would expect such a bug to have
been reported before since Win xp and redhat dual boots are
popular. I also don't understand clearly the limitations and differences
between suspend, standby and hibernation mentioned in the docs.

I probably wouldn't have posted if you had mentioned that you had
set win xp to hibernate since that would mean you knew your
situation could well be the result of user intervention. Sometimes
there are bios settings for power usage and assigning ports as well.

> > Most ISPs now offer "Instant On" pppoe
> > connections by default rather than Always On. I haven't come
> > across enough information to say this situation is a windows bug
> > rather than an inconvenient default setting for one personally.
>
> > For instance the swat file in Samba is generated automatically
> > with disable = yes (in Samba 3pre+) when in order to use
> > swat that entry should read disable = no One would think
> > that most new users would want to use swat and that older
> > users don't use swat at all so that the default should be set
> > to disable = no which means swat is enabled. It is hard to
> > say if that is a bug or mistaken judgment, without having all the
> > information available to the programmer who makes the decision.
>
> > This may bring up issues with static and/or fixed IP addresses.
> > On my machine, I dual boot win xp and RH9 with one shared
> > Nic card without a problem. So do countless others. This leads
> > me to believe it is not the Nic card itself but due to user practice.
>
> > When the linux connection is working you could print out all
> > the relevant configuration files for the connection. Then create
> > the problem by booting into windows xp. Print out all the relevant
> > configuration files and see if they are identical to the working ones.
>
> Tried it, they were. Everything seemed just perfect at first. The funky
> stuff I got in this situation was with pppd not being able to use eth0
> properly -> ppp0 not appearing (or appearing for the duration of
> connection attempt == adsl/pppoe/...-start) in ifconfig.
>

> > If they are not identical it is a linux config problem. If they are
> > identical then it points to the Nic card still in use because the
> > service on the card has not been terminated.
>
> Couldn't figure this out myself since ifconfig and others let me set the
> ip addr, bring it down, set it up etc. just fine.
>
> > A bit of a pain which
> > is why I think you should skip to troubleshooting the benefits or
> > not of turning the service off (disconnect) in windows first and
> > see what happens. It is an easy step to try.
>
> Yeah, well, I admit I was a bit enthusiastic after getting it to work
> after many hours of trying.
>
> And hey, maybe someone has exactly the same problem and uses this as a
> partial or temporary solution. (Possibly even finds that
> H_KEY_WHATEVER.DisconnectOnHibernate = 0 from the windows registry)
>
> Anyways: IMHO it's a win bug. Not a serious one, but definitely
> frustrating: I tried to hack the linux for hours, but not hard-restarting
> or using windows and thus disconnecting. It never occured to me that
> hibernating (i.e. not disconnecting from win) could've caused the ppp0
> creation to fail. Besides, after you reboot win from hibernation, the
> connection is, of course, down...
>

My post was intended to point that this wouldn't happen unless the
normal XP settings had been changed somehow. Since you know
you changed the hibernation settings, I don't have much to add.
I find it odd that I can't find any posts on Google which share your
problem and there must be many configurations similar to yours.
If your dilemma were common, then one would expect some complaints.
Did you find any?

Regards,
Stephen

"Tero Pihlajakoski" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bqief1$21f$(E-Mail Removed)...
> ---
>
> Hi,
>
> I recently re-installed linux as a second operating system along WinXP. I
> had huge problems getting up the internet connection (For finnish
> googlers: Baana, Cisco, 575 LRE). I managed to connect exactly 2 times
> (both with perfect connections). But after I'd shutdown and restarted, the
> system, it failed to connect with _any_ the PPPoE clients I found on the
> net.
>
> Ok, the solution:
>
> I never turned off (complete shutdown) the computer _and_ the ADSL modem.
> It seems that XP puts the modem or the network card to some sort of
> hibernate (or powersave) when it terminates (sigh). Linux then doesn't
> automagically reset the setting... On my modem this is apparent from the
> fact that the eth - light on the box "can't be lit" with normal means
> (like ifconfig or ifup).
>
> So it was Windows after all...
>
> Does anyone know a more flexible way to solve this? I want to be able to
> 'restart' windows and boot directly to Linux.
>

This seems related: http://www.mcmaster.ca/cis/network/vpn/vpnfaq.html#t1

Screen savers, hibernation/sleep mode, and the VPN software
"On several operating systems, the Cisco VPN client will have problems when
the system engages a screen saver, goes into hibernation, or goes into sleep
mode. This is because the VPN client expects to have constant communication
with the server. When the system goes into a state of lower activity, some
hardware devices can also be put into standby, including wireless and
Ethernet cards. If this is done, it interrupts the network connection the
VPN client is using to communicate with the server.

On Windows, some network cards are put into standby when a screen saver
engages or hibernation starts. While there have not been reports of Windows
machines freezing, the VPN client often becomes unable to communicate with
the server even after the screen saver or hibernation is ended and normal
network card activity resumes. Stopping and restarting the client will not
solve the problem; you will need to reboot the system in order to be able to
connect correctly again.

You should always log out of the VPN client software and exit it before
letting your system go into screen saver or hibernation mode."

Stephen Harris <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> This may help, but restart, shutdown or hibernate should definitely ensure
>> no devices are left to 'limbo' (standby, that I understand . I use
>> hibernate extensively since I have five to ten UI apps running most of the
>> time and it's a pain to resume the work after an actual reboot, so not
>> terminating the connection and hibernating might be the _actual_ cause for
>> this phenomenon.
>>

> Well you wrote:

>> >> > It seems that XP puts the modem or the network card to some sort of
>> >> > hibernate (or powersave) when it terminates (sigh). Linux then
> doesn't
>> >> > automagically reset the setting

> "seems" indicates that it just happened naturally without user intervention.
> That is why I pointed out their are hundreds and hundreds of Win XP
> and linux dual boots that don't have this problem. Thus the situation was
> created by user intervention which is why I wrote: "This leads me to
> believe it is not the Nic card itself but due to user practice."

> So I don't dispute that you may have good reason to employ hibernation
> but your first message did not convey the idea that the hibernation was a
> result of user intervention but rather this was its spontaneous behavior;
> so that plotted the trajectory of my troubleshooting post.

>> In fact, wouldn't you call this a bug?:
>> blah...
>> blah...

> I don't know because I don't have enough information. MS calls
> bug "issues" and I haven't searched their Knowledge Base. But
> I did do a Google search with these keywords
> linux windows xp dual boot nic card hibernation problem
> and there weren't any hits. One would expect such a bug to have
> been reported before since Win xp and redhat dual boots are
> popular. I also don't understand clearly the limitations and differences
> between suspend, standby and hibernation mentioned in the docs.

Try googling: "linux pppoe ppp0", "linux adsl connection problem", add
adsl, eth0
etc. Lot of unresolveds come up. Try this one:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/.../msg03305.html

And now that you mention this, they have plenty of "issues" regarding
hibernate and standby. Check out the search.microsoft.com : look under
support & troubleshooting. Enter keywords: hibernate connection. Lots of
stuff, some of the already fixed, some of them not. Including firewire
going down...


> I probably wouldn't have posted if you had mentioned that you had
> set win xp to hibernate since that would mean you knew your
> situation could well be the result of user intervention. Sometimes
> there are bios settings for power usage and assigning ports as well.

I'd been using hibernate for ages -> Couldn't associate with this problem.

>> Anyways: IMHO it's a win bug. Not a serious one, but definitely
>> frustrating: I tried to hack the linux for hours, but not hard-restarting
>> or using windows and thus disconnecting. It never occured to me that
>> hibernating (i.e. not disconnecting from win) could've caused the ppp0
>> creation to fail. Besides, after you reboot win from hibernation, the
>> connection is, of course, down...

> My post was intended to point that this wouldn't happen unless the
> normal XP settings had been changed somehow. Since you know
> you changed the hibernation settings, I don't have much to add.

My point was, and still is: It is not evident that the problem is caused
by winXP & hibernation, especially if you've been using them for awhile
and it just might take you hours to find out what's the problem.

> I find it odd that I can't find any posts on Google which share your
> problem and there must be many configurations similar to yours.
> If your dilemma were common, then one would expect some complaints.
> Did you find any?

Yes, plenty, see above. I went through a lot of web pages while
troubleshooting, so don't start with me.


--

"Tero Pihlajakoski" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bqjqrq$hgl$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Stephen Harris <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >> This may help, but restart, shutdown or hibernate should definitely
ensure
> >> no devices are left to 'limbo' (standby, that I understand . I use
> >> hibernate extensively since I have five to ten UI apps running most of
the
> >> time and it's a pain to resume the work after an actual reboot, so not
> >> terminating the connection and hibernating might be the _actual_ cause
for
> >> this phenomenon.
> >>
>
> > Well you wrote:
>
> >> >> > It seems that XP puts the modem or the network card to some sort
of
> >> >> > hibernate (or powersave) when it terminates (sigh). Linux then
> > doesn't
> >> >> > automagically reset the setting
>
> > "seems" indicates that it just happened naturally without user
intervention.
> > That is why I pointed out their are hundreds and hundreds of Win XP
> > and linux dual boots that don't have this problem. Thus the situation
was
> > created by user intervention which is why I wrote: "This leads me to
> > believe it is not the Nic card itself but due to user practice."
>
> > So I don't dispute that you may have good reason to employ hibernation
> > but your first message did not convey the idea that the hibernation was
a
> > result of user intervention but rather this was its spontaneous
behavior;
> > so that plotted the trajectory of my troubleshooting post.
>
> >> In fact, wouldn't you call this a bug?:
> >> blah...
> >> blah...
>
> > I don't know because I don't have enough information. MS calls
> > bug "issues" and I haven't searched their Knowledge Base. But
> > I did do a Google search with these keywords
> > linux windows xp dual boot nic card hibernation problem
> > and there weren't any hits. One would expect such a bug to have
> > been reported before since Win xp and redhat dual boots are
> > popular. I also don't understand clearly the limitations and differences

> > between suspend, standby and hibernation mentioned in the docs.
>
> Try googling: "linux pppoe ppp0", "linux adsl connection problem", add
> adsl, eth0
> etc. Lot of unresolveds come up. Try this one:
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/.../msg03305.html
>

Yes, but these don't support your case. 98% of them are linux configuration
problems and 1% bad Nic cards and a small percentage are dual boots.
Since you are trying to establish that win xp and its hibernation are
screwing
up your linux connection, "dual boot" or linux/redhat + windows xp needs
to be part of the complaint post to make it enough like your current
situation
to make an analogy ring true. Here is a close example from Google:

"I had a dual boot (Mandrake 9.1 & Win XP Pro) system with a working ADSL
connection in both OSs. Yesterday I replaced Mandrake 9.1 with 9.2 (fresh
install, NO upgrade) and ever since I can't get my ADSL to connect in Linux
(although I use the same working hardware & connections). I believe the
problem is related to setting up my Ethernet card which doesn't seem to
"talk" with the ADSL modem.

Hardware: Athlon XP1800+, 512MB RAM, eth0(PCI card, currently not used yet I
keep it for my future local net), eth1 (onboard the motherboard) connected
to the ADSL modem (ECI model B Focus 270PR). In mandrake 9.1 I had to boot
with the "noapic" option in order to activate eth1 and I boot the same way
in Mandrake 9.2."

SH: The problem with this example though it is close to yours is that it is
obviously a linux change that squelched the connection, so not due to Win
XP.
So either "standby" or "hibernation" also has to be included in finding a
post which matches your situation in order to show others have your problem
and thus it is more likely to be a bug. In your situation, discovering a new
bug
it going to be statistically rare compared to a user misconfiguration
because
both dual boots with XP are popular thus likely to have problems reported.

I am going to cut and paste your comment from later on because this is
a better place to answer it.

SH wrote: > > If your dilemma were common, then one would expect some
>> complaints. Did you find any?
>
Tero wrote:
> Yes, plenty, see above. I went through a lot of web pages while
> troubleshooting, so don't start with me.

I believe you worked hard on this. My question wasn't a veiled insult.
I reported that I did not find anything really close to your situation
which include dual boot and hibernation. I meant "did you find any?"
that were spot on (I have learned some British lingo on the internet).
I didn't mean in the same ball park.



> And now that you mention this, they have plenty of "issues" regarding
> hibernate and standby. Check out the search.microsoft.com : look under
> support & troubleshooting. Enter keywords: hibernate connection. Lots of
> stuff, some of the already fixed, some of them not. Including firewire
> going down...
>

I read all the MS hibernation issues. The close ones like the vpn I mention
in another post reflect on a Nic. But unfortunately, none of deal with
hibernation controlling the physical operation of a hardware device which
is being driven by another operating system, rather xp resuming. It may be
possible. But I find it too hard to proceed to this conclusion without
finding
a thorough explanation of the physical process which would make it possible.
For instance, the monitor is often in hibernation mode under win xp as well.
But I expect the monitor unfreezes and operates properly... so I think
pointing
the logical finger of problem cause at hibernation is a little premature.

>
> > I probably wouldn't have posted if you had mentioned that you had
> > set win xp to hibernate since that would mean you knew your
> > situation could well be the result of user intervention. Sometimes
> > there are bios settings for power usage and assigning ports as well.
>
> I'd been using hibernate for ages -> Couldn't associate with this problem.

Does that mean you have been using win xp hibernation and dual booting
linux for some time? That the connection used to work for linux but the
problem arose recently. That leans against hibernation being the problem,
it needs to be a new vegetable in the soup.

Or do you mean that hibernation has been working all along and that the
linux dual boot is recent and never did work correctly for internet
connection?
If that is the case then the next logical troubleshooting step is to disable
hibernation (at least temporarily) and see if the linux connection is up in
the customary configuration where dual booting typically works properly.
Maybe you have already thought of that. But until the linux connection is
working ok (after booting from win xp) without hibernation ya can't say
hibernation is the problem causer. If it doesn't work fix it. Then re-enable
hibernation and see if the linux connection activates. If you have already
done this then it does make hibernation more likely to be the culprit.

>
> >> Anyways: IMHO it's a win bug. Not a serious one, but definitely
> >> frustrating: I tried to hack the linux for hours, but not
hard-restarting
> >> or using windows and thus disconnecting. It never occured to me that
> >> hibernating (i.e. not disconnecting from win) could've caused the ppp0
> >> creation to fail. Besides, after you reboot win from hibernation, the
> >> connection is, of course, down...
>

I can see why it wouldn't occur to you. Maybe you have already tested this
with hibernation disabled to see if the linux connection works -- if it
does,
it makes your argument stronger.

> > My post was intended to point that this wouldn't happen unless the
> > normal XP settings had been changed somehow. Since you know
> > you changed the hibernation settings, I don't have much to add.
>
> My point was, and still is: It is not evident that the problem is caused
> by winXP & hibernation, especially if you've been using them for awhile
> and it just might take you hours to find out what's the problem.
>

This comment prompted my earlier question about how long this combo
of win xp and linux dsl connection worked properly. If it worked
ok for a couple of weeks then it is still very not evident that hibernation
is
exactly the cause of the problem. It would also explain why I didn't find
any posts of problems which closely match your situation.

But seeing if your linux connection works without hibernation (normal)
is still the best way to find out if there has been some other change take
place. If the connection doesn't work after disabling hibernation you can
rule
out hibernation as the culprit. I'm thinking back to that Mandrake and XP
example towards the beginning of this post. I am interested in this topic.

> > I find it odd that I can't find any posts on Google which share your
> > problem and there must be many configurations similar to yours.
> > If your dilemma were common, then one would expect some complaints.
> > Did you find any?
>
> Yes, plenty, see above. I went through a lot of web pages while
> troubleshooting, so don't start with me.
>

I meant nearly precisely like your situation as explained above
since I didn't find any close enough to confirm your diagnosis.


Regards,
Stephen

Stephen Harris <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> "Tero Pihlajakoski" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:bqjqrq$hgl$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Stephen Harris <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>

>> > between suspend, standby and hibernation mentioned in the docs.
>>
>> Try googling: "linux pppoe ppp0", "linux adsl connection problem", add
>> adsl, eth0
>> etc. Lot of unresolveds come up. Try this one:
>> http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/.../msg03305.html
>>

> Yes, but these don't support your case. 98% of them are linux configuration
> problems and 1% bad Nic cards and a small percentage are dual boots.
> Since you are trying to establish that win xp and its hibernation are
> screwing
> up your linux connection, "dual boot" or linux/redhat + windows xp needs
> to be part of the complaint post to make it enough like your current
> situation
> to make an analogy ring true. Here is a close example from Google:

Redhat has nothing to do with this, I'm not using that distro. The problem
might occur with any distribution. Have you thought that maybe the people
with "unresolved" problems might be using the dual boot, but not
associating it with the problem an thus not mentioning it in the post?

> "I had a dual boot (Mandrake 9.1 & Win XP Pro) system with a working ADSL
..> connection in both OSs. Yesterday I replaced Mandrake 9.1 with 9.2 (fresh
> install, NO upgrade) and ever since I can't get my ADSL to connect in Linux
> (although I use the same working hardware & connections). I believe the
> problem is related to setting up my Ethernet card which doesn't seem to
> "talk" with the ADSL modem.

> Hardware: Athlon XP1800+, 512MB RAM, eth0(PCI card, currently not used yet I
> keep it for my future local net), eth1 (onboard the motherboard) connected
> to the ADSL modem (ECI model B Focus 270PR). In mandrake 9.1 I had to boot
> with the "noapic" option in order to activate eth1 and I boot the same way
> in Mandrake 9.2."

> SH: The problem with this example though it is close to yours is that it is
> obviously a linux change that squelched the connection, so not due to Win
> XP.
> So either "standby" or "hibernation" also has to be included in finding a
> post which matches your situation in order to show others have your problem
> and thus it is more likely to be a bug. In your situation, discovering a new
> bug
> it going to be statistically rare compared to a user misconfiguration
> because
> both dual boots with XP are popular thus likely to have problems reported.

In fact, since it seems that ethX is 'powered' down even at pre-boot when
using hibernate, the issue might be fixed by toying around with APIC
settings (in bios, win and lin). I may be checking this out...

> I am going to cut and paste your comment from later on because this is
> a better place to answer it.

> SH wrote: > > If your dilemma were common, then one would expect some
>>> complaints. Did you find any?
>>
> Tero wrote:
>> Yes, plenty, see above. I went through a lot of web pages while
>> troubleshooting, so don't start with me.

> I believe you worked hard on this. My question wasn't a veiled insult.
> I reported that I did not find anything really close to your situation
> which include dual boot and hibernation. I meant "did you find any?"
> that were spot on (I have learned some British lingo on the internet).
> I didn't mean in the same ball park.

>> And now that you mention this, they have plenty of "issues" regarding
>> hibernate and standby. Check out the search.microsoft.com : look under
>> support & troubleshooting. Enter keywords: hibernate connection. Lots of
>> stuff, some of the already fixed, some of them not. Including firewire
>> going down...
>>

> I read all the MS hibernation issues. The close ones like the vpn I mention
> in another post reflect on a Nic. But unfortunately, none of deal with
> hibernation controlling the physical operation of a hardware device which
> is being driven by another operating system, rather xp resuming. It may be
> possible. But I find it too hard to proceed to this conclusion without
> finding
> a thorough explanation of the physical process which would make it possible.
> For instance, the monitor is often in hibernation mode under win xp as well.
> But I expect the monitor unfreezes and operates properly... so I think
> pointing
> the logical finger of problem cause at hibernation is a little premature.

Yes, I only included that comment to point out that WinXP hibernation is
not that bug-free after all.

>>
>> > I probably wouldn't have posted if you had mentioned that you had
>> > set win xp to hibernate since that would mean you knew your
>> > situation could well be the result of user intervention. Sometimes
>> > there are bios settings for power usage and assigning ports as well.
>>
>> I'd been using hibernate for ages -> Couldn't associate with this problem.

> Does that mean you have been using win xp hibernation and dual booting
> linux for some time? That the connection used to work for linux but the
> problem arose recently. That leans against hibernation being the problem,
> it needs to be a new vegetable in the soup.

No, that is not the case...

> Or do you mean that hibernation has been working all along and that the
> linux dual boot is recent and never did work correctly for internet
> connection?

....Yes, sort of. The networking in linux is a new feature.

> If that is the case then the next logical troubleshooting step is to disable
> hibernation (at least temporarily) and see if the linux connection is up in
> the customary configuration where dual booting typically works properly.
> Maybe you have already thought of that. But until the linux connection is
> working ok (after booting from win xp) without hibernation ya can't say
> hibernation is the problem causer. If it doesn't work fix it. Then re-enable
> hibernation and see if the linux connection activates. If you have already
> done this then it does make hibernation more likely to be the culprit.

Perhaps I didn't express myself clearly enough concerning this (I had
presented the sequence of actions to make it not work...), but I already
did this. And yes, it points out to hibernation.

(And yes, _now_ I've also tested with normal shutdown & restart, after
these, the ethernet controller and ADSL work great).

>>
>> >> Anyways: IMHO it's a win bug. Not a serious one, but definitely
>> >> frustrating: I tried to hack the linux for hours, but not
> hard-restarting
>> >> or using windows and thus disconnecting. It never occured to me that
>> >> hibernating (i.e. not disconnecting from win) could've caused the ppp0
>> >> creation to fail. Besides, after you reboot win from hibernation, the
>> >> connection is, of course, down...
>>

> I can see why it wouldn't occur to you. Maybe you have already tested this
> with hibernation disabled to see if the linux connection works -- if it
> does,
> it makes your argument stronger.

See above.

>> > My post was intended to point that this wouldn't happen unless the
>> > normal XP settings had been changed somehow. Since you know
>> > you changed the hibernation settings, I don't have much to add.
>>
>> My point was, and still is: It is not evident that the problem is caused
>> by winXP & hibernation, especially if you've been using them for awhile
>> and it just might take you hours to find out what's the problem.
>>

> This comment prompted my earlier question about how long this combo
> of win xp and linux dsl connection worked properly. If it worked
> ok for a couple of weeks then it is still very not evident that hibernation
> is
> exactly the cause of the problem. It would also explain why I didn't find
> any posts of problems which closely match your situation.

> But seeing if your linux connection works without hibernation (normal)
> is still the best way to find out if there has been some other change take
> place. If the connection doesn't work after disabling hibernation you can
> rule
> out hibernation as the culprit. I'm thinking back to that Mandrake and XP
> example towards the beginning of this post. I am interested in this topic.

>> > I find it odd that I can't find any posts on Google which share your
>> > problem and there must be many configurations similar to yours.
>> > If your dilemma were common, then one would expect some complaints.
>> > Did you find any?
>>
>> Yes, plenty, see above. I went through a lot of web pages while
>> troubleshooting, so don't start with me.
>>

> I meant nearly precisely like your situation as explained above
> since I didn't find any close enough to confirm your diagnosis.

As a summary to concerning the trouble finding a 'matching' posting: The
problem is, the postings have not necessarily all the info about the
system listed.

> Regards,
> Stephen



--

"Tero Pihlajakoski" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bqkllp$q1$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Stephen Harris <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > "Tero Pihlajakoski" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:bqjqrq$hgl$(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> Stephen Harris <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >>
>
> Redhat has nothing to do with this, I'm not using that distro. The problem
> might occur with any distribution. Have you thought that maybe the people
> with "unresolved" problems might be using the dual boot, but not
> associating it with the problem an thus not mentioning it in the post?
>

People usually report their system setup such as which distro and
dual booting when they describe their problem whether or not they
think the distro or dual booting is relevant to the problem. So the
chances that everyone would omit describing their dual boot system
that matched your problem is vanishingly remote. Your argument
works better for whether they would describe or include "hibernation".

>> > I meant nearly precisely like your situation as explained above
> > since I didn't find any close enough to confirm your diagnosis.
>
> As a summary to concerning the trouble finding a 'matching' posting: The
> problem is, the postings have not necessarily all the info about the
> system listed.
>

That is not a plausible answer to explain why there are no such posts
which mirror your situation with high accuracy. If your situation is a
reproducible bug then there should be a few such posts out of the
thousands of posts in this general area that closely match yours.
I did not find a single one, and the odds are strongly in favor of one.

I looked at laptops since they often use hibernation mode. I notice
that a script is recommended to deactivate devices before they are
allowed to go into hibernation. Linux should not have a problem
awakening devices out of a windows xp induced hibernation state
if the devices have not been placed in hibernation. Incidentally, linux
support for hibernation has been less developed than windows support.
I think the script idea below agrees with the advice given in the vpn post:
"You should always log out of the VPN client software and exit it before
letting your system go into screen saver or hibernation mode."

Hibernation/Suspend mode
http://www.bolthole.com/solaris/x86-...s.html#suspend
Some laptops have a "suspend" or "hibernate" mode that will actually
partially work with solaris. The trouble is that some of the drivers may
need resetting. Youri Podchosov has made a hibernation script that can be
manually run, to get around the effects of this. Note that it needs to be
customized for your praticular laptop.

#!/bin/ksh

#ident "@(#)hiber 3.2 98/11/10 (E-Mail Removed)"
#
# This script takes care of all routine procedures needed to
# be performed each time the notebook goes to suspend mode
# (section `stop') and gets resumed (section `start').
# What it basically does is deactivates (before suspending)
# drivers for those devices - PCMCIA network and modem cards
# and sound system - that are most affected by suspend/resume
# cycle, and activates (after resuming) those that were
# deactivated at suspend time.
# This one definitely works on Tecra 550CDT, although other
# models may require similar treatment of suspend mode.
#
# Syntax: hiber [ -nms ] { on | off }
#
# -n (de)activate PCMCIA NIC driver (pcelx);
# -m (de)activate PCMCIA modem driver (pcser);
# -s (de)activate OSS audio driver (oss);
# (default is act upon all three devices);
# on prepare system for going suspend mode;
# off restore system after resuming operations.

Good luck,
Stephen