Poor synch rate ADSL MAX

For over a year and a half my Netgear DG834G router always resynchs to
a speed around 2100kbps (long line, this rate is OK) and always showed
a downstream noise margin of 6db after the resynch. Using a BT line
and *not* using LLU equipment in the exchange.

This morning the router had lost synch for some reason. The logs show
it trying to reconnect from about 0130 to 0700 and then it gave up.

A reboot now gives me a poor synch rate ~1400kbps and a downstream
noise margin of 15db. ADSL Nation filter in test socket and all
telephony and wiring removed.

Repeated attempts always result in a synch speed ~1400 and 15db noise
margin.

ISP says he cannot trouble BT over this, despite the fact that the
line isn't synching to the ADSL Max specification.

Should the line resynch to a 6db noise level?

Could this be a problem in the exchange?

If so how do I "tell it" to the ISP to get it resolved?

--
brightside S9

brightside S9 wrote:
> For over a year and a half my Netgear DG834G router always resynchs to
> a speed around 2100kbps (long line, this rate is OK) and always showed
> a downstream noise margin of 6db after the resynch. Using a BT line
> and *not* using LLU equipment in the exchange.
>
> This morning the router had lost synch for some reason. The logs show
> it trying to reconnect from about 0130 to 0700 and then it gave up.
>
> A reboot now gives me a poor synch rate ~1400kbps and a downstream
> noise margin of 15db. ADSL Nation filter in test socket and all
> telephony and wiring removed.
>
> Repeated attempts always result in a synch speed ~1400 and 15db noise
> margin.
>
> ISP says he cannot trouble BT over this, despite the fact that the
> line isn't synching to the ADSL Max specification.
>

He should. Something has rest the noise margin at the exchange. Or
possibly your router.

Power cycle that,and then tell your ISP that the noise margin has gone
weird on the BT end and get them to phone BT, or change supplier.




> Should the line resynch to a 6db noise level?
>

Should do unless its been reset by too many resets..as it were.


> Could this be a problem in the exchange?
>

What has probably happened is that the line has had a load of noise on
it, and BT's auto stuff has simply upped the noise margin to get
reliability. So its stick there.


> If so how do I "tell it" to the ISP to get it resolved?
>

You ask for support to sort it out with BT, and if they dont, ask to
speak to the support manager, and if they won't ask to speak to the
sales manager, and tell them that unless the problem is resolved you
want to cancel your contract.

You may have a line problem thats a the root of all this. If the audio
is crackly or hissy, get BT to do an audio check. If that fails you get
a free BT audio fix that will probably fix the DSL as well.

If however that passes, then you have to go to the BT DSL boys VIA your ISP.

I have very similar problem, about every 3 months the connection gets
unreliable and it happened again
in second half of October. After long and protracted negotiation with the
ISP they eventually reported that BT have done 'something' at the exchange.
The connection is now very steady, but stuck with min 15 dB SNR and thus
limited to 1 Mb/s, while it used to be 2 Mb/s. I have asked the ISP 3 times
to remove the SNR limit to no avail....argghhh !
Regards,
Martin

"Martin²" wrote:

> I have very similar problem, about every 3 months the connection gets
> unreliable and it happened again
> in second half of October. After long and protracted negotiation with the
> ISP they eventually reported that BT have done 'something' at the exchange.
> The connection is now very steady, but stuck with min 15 dB SNR and thus
> limited to 1 Mb/s, while it used to be 2 Mb/s. I have asked the ISP 3 times
> to remove the SNR limit to no avail....argghhh !

You need a decent ISP.

I had a troublesome period for a while and Idnet simply got BT to reset their
equipment. Fixed it straight off.

Graham

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 01:30:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>brightside S9 wrote:
>> For over a year and a half my Netgear DG834G router always resynchs to
>> a speed around 2100kbps (long line, this rate is OK) and always showed
>> a downstream noise margin of 6db after the resynch. Using a BT line
>> and *not* using LLU equipment in the exchange.
>>
>> This morning the router had lost synch for some reason. The logs show
>> it trying to reconnect from about 0130 to 0700 and then it gave up.
>>
>> A reboot now gives me a poor synch rate ~1400kbps and a downstream
>> noise margin of 15db. ADSL Nation filter in test socket and all
>> telephony and wiring removed.
>>
>> Repeated attempts always result in a synch speed ~1400 and 15db noise
>> margin.
>>
>> ISP says he cannot trouble BT over this, despite the fact that the
>> line isn't synching to the ADSL Max specification.
>>

>
>He should. Something has rest the noise margin at the exchange. Or
>possibly your router.
>
>Power cycle that,and then tell your ISP that the noise margin has gone
>weird on the BT end and get them to phone BT, or change supplier.

That was the ISP's first recommendation. So I did a factory reset and
reconfigure. Absoluteley no change in the problem.

>
>> Should the line resynch to a 6db noise level?
>>
>
>Should do unless its been reset by too many resets..as it were.
>

Hmm, I wonder if spending 5.5 hours trying to reconnect overnight has
upset something at the exchange.


>> Could this be a problem in the exchange?
>>
>
>What has probably happened is that the line has had a load of noise on
>it, and BT's auto stuff has simply upped the noise margin to get
>reliability. So its stick there.

Any resynching in the past always seems to occur in the early hours of
Saturday, Sunday or Monday, but the router has always recovered.

Prior to this specific problem the router had been rock solid for
(IIRC) 407 hours on the stats, before that about 320 hours. (The
reboot between these two periods was *not* related to any problem).

>> If so how do I "tell it" to the ISP to get it resolved?
>>
>
>You ask for support to sort it out with BT, and if they dont, ask to
>speak to the support manager, and if they won't ask to speak to the
>sales manager, and tell them that unless the problem is resolved you
>want to cancel your contract.

Moving to a new ISP who takes reported problems seriously is tempting,
but would a move to a new ISP, still using BT's network, get the noise
marinn back to 6db?
>
>You may have a line problem thats a the root of all this. If the audio
>is crackly or hissy, get BT to do an audio check. If that fails you get
>a free BT audio fix that will probably fix the DSL as well.
>
>If however that passes, then you have to go to the BT DSL boys VIA your ISP.
>

There is no problem with the voice, no crackles or hisses etc., but I
will bear this in mind.

Thanks, and thanks to other who responded.

--
brightside S9

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 01:30:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>brightside S9 wrote:
>> For over a year and a half my Netgear DG834G router always resynchs to
>> a speed around 2100kbps (long line, this rate is OK) and always showed
>> a downstream noise margin of 6db after the resynch. Using a BT line
>> and *not* using LLU equipment in the exchange.
>>
>> This morning the router had lost synch for some reason. The logs show
>> it trying to reconnect from about 0130 to 0700 and then it gave up.
>>
>> A reboot now gives me a poor synch rate ~1400kbps and a downstream
>> noise margin of 15db. ADSL Nation filter in test socket and all
>> telephony and wiring removed.
>>
>> Repeated attempts always result in a synch speed ~1400 and 15db noise
>> margin.
>>
>> ISP says he cannot trouble BT over this, despite the fact that the
>> line isn't synching to the ADSL Max specification.
>>
>
>He should. Something has rest the noise margin at the exchange. Or
>possibly your router.
>
>Power cycle that,and then tell your ISP that the noise margin has gone
>weird on the BT end and get them to phone BT, or change supplier.

I have had a search around and on AAISP web site there is some
information relevant to this problem. It looks like 'DynamicLline
Management' has decided to put the noise margin to 15db. They say
that DLM is a continuous process. Hmm I wonder if that means the
noise margin will eventually work its way back to 6db? Anyone know?

See http://aaisp.net.uk/maxmagic.html paragraph headed DLM.

>> Should the line resynch to a 6db noise level?
>>
>
>Should do unless its been reset by too many resets..as it were.
>
>
>> Could this be a problem in the exchange?
>>
>
>What has probably happened is that the line has had a load of noise on
>it, and BT's auto stuff has simply upped the noise margin to get
>reliability. So its stick there.
>
>
>> If so how do I "tell it" to the ISP to get it resolved?
>>
>
>You ask for support to sort it out with BT, and if they dont, ask to
>speak to the support manager, and if they won't ask to speak to the
>sales manager, and tell them that unless the problem is resolved you
>want to cancel your contract.
>
>You may have a line problem thats a the root of all this. If the audio
>is crackly or hissy, get BT to do an audio check. If that fails you get
>a free BT audio fix that will probably fix the DSL as well.
>
>If however that passes, then you have to go to the BT DSL boys VIA your ISP.
>

--
brightside S9

brightside S9 wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 01:30:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>> brightside S9 wrote:
>>> For over a year and a half my Netgear DG834G router always resynchs to
>>> a speed around 2100kbps (long line, this rate is OK) and always showed
>>> a downstream noise margin of 6db after the resynch. Using a BT line
>>> and *not* using LLU equipment in the exchange.
>>>
>>> This morning the router had lost synch for some reason. The logs show
>>> it trying to reconnect from about 0130 to 0700 and then it gave up.
>>>
>>> A reboot now gives me a poor synch rate ~1400kbps and a downstream
>>> noise margin of 15db. ADSL Nation filter in test socket and all
>>> telephony and wiring removed.
>>>
>>> Repeated attempts always result in a synch speed ~1400 and 15db noise
>>> margin.
>>>
>>> ISP says he cannot trouble BT over this, despite the fact that the
>>> line isn't synching to the ADSL Max specification.
>>>
>> He should. Something has rest the noise margin at the exchange. Or
>> possibly your router.
>>
>> Power cycle that,and then tell your ISP that the noise margin has gone
>> weird on the BT end and get them to phone BT, or change supplier.
>
> I have had a search around and on AAISP web site there is some
> information relevant to this problem. It looks like 'DynamicLline
> Management' has decided to put the noise margin to 15db. They say
> that DLM is a continuous process. Hmm I wonder if that means the
> noise margin will eventually work its way back to 6db? Anyone know?
>

In my case it needed a manual reset.

Now my BRAS is stuck at silly numbers too. Sigh.

The boring tale of my woes, (exacerbated by thick low level support
engineers) was that my router synched at too high a speed..leading to
unreliability. This was irritating and eventually resulted in a 15dB
noise margin. But still too high connection speeds.

After finally finding the magic spell to get the router to behave
normally, I found myself synching too SLOW.

I had to ask the ISP to reset the noise margin, which they did via BT.

However now my BRAS profile is also stuck low..sigh.

This ADSL max is a bit of a s
support nightmare when it doesn't work as expected.

In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, brightside S9
<address@replyto_is_not.invalid> writes
>For over a year and a half my Netgear DG834G router always resynchs to
>a speed around 2100kbps (long line, this rate is OK) and always showed
>a downstream noise margin of 6db after the resynch. Using a BT line
>and *not* using LLU equipment in the exchange.
>
>This morning the router had lost synch for some reason. The logs show
>it trying to reconnect from about 0130 to 0700 and then it gave up.
>
>A reboot now gives me a poor synch rate ~1400kbps and a downstream
>noise margin of 15db. ADSL Nation filter in test socket and all
>telephony and wiring removed.
>
>Repeated attempts always result in a synch speed ~1400 and 15db noise
>margin.
>
>ISP says he cannot trouble BT over this, despite the fact that the
>line isn't synching to the ADSL Max specification.
>
>Should the line resynch to a 6db noise level?
>
>Could this be a problem in the exchange?
>
>If so how do I "tell it" to the ISP to get it resolved?
>
It does need the noise margin to be reset by BT - your ISP should do
this for you.

I had an almost identical incident recently with the same router. After
a mains power spike the router seemed to get itself into a tangle and
the ADSL connection was continuously dropping and reconnecting every
minute for a couple of hours. A router reboot fixed the problem at my
end, but by then the exchange had decided the line was noisy and
increased the noise figure - and of course dropped the speed.

I was told that 10 disconnects in an hour will trigger the exchange to
increase the noise margin - it will apparently adapt back down itself,
but needs a period of several WEEKS stable connection to so do.

Apparently BT are reluctant to do this manually unless there is an
incident, that does not seem likely to reoccur, to explain the
disconnects.

After raising a ticket with them, my ISP (Plusnet) contacted BT and had
the limit reduced to 6dB and everything went back to normal. The process
from fault ticket to increased speed took less than 24 hours.

Contact your ISP again and lean on them. Blame the router!!

--
Peter R Cook

brightside S9 wrote:
> For over a year and a half my Netgear DG834G router always resynchs to
> a speed around 2100kbps (long line, this rate is OK) and always showed
> a downstream noise margin of 6db after the resynch. Using a BT line
> and *not* using LLU equipment in the exchange.
>
> This morning the router had lost synch for some reason. The logs show
> it trying to reconnect from about 0130 to 0700 and then it gave up.
>
> A reboot now gives me a poor synch rate ~1400kbps and a downstream
> noise margin of 15db. ADSL Nation filter in test socket and all
> telephony and wiring removed.
>
> Repeated attempts always result in a synch speed ~1400 and 15db noise
> margin.
>
> ISP says he cannot trouble BT over this, despite the fact that the
> line isn't synching to the ADSL Max specification.
>
> Should the line resynch to a 6db noise level?
>
> Could this be a problem in the exchange?
>
> If so how do I "tell it" to the ISP to get it resolved?

Who is the ISP?

Peter Crosland

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:40:41 -0000, "Peter Crosland"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>brightside S9 wrote:
>> For over a year and a half my Netgear DG834G router always resynchs to
>> a speed around 2100kbps (long line, this rate is OK) and always showed
>> a downstream noise margin of 6db after the resynch. Using a BT line
>> and *not* using LLU equipment in the exchange.
>>
>> This morning the router had lost synch for some reason. The logs show
>> it trying to reconnect from about 0130 to 0700 and then it gave up.
>>
>> A reboot now gives me a poor synch rate ~1400kbps and a downstream
>> noise margin of 15db. ADSL Nation filter in test socket and all
>> telephony and wiring removed.
>>
>> Repeated attempts always result in a synch speed ~1400 and 15db noise
>> margin.
>>
>> ISP says he cannot trouble BT over this, despite the fact that the
>> line isn't synching to the ADSL Max specification.
>>
>> Should the line resynch to a 6db noise level?
>>
>> Could this be a problem in the exchange?
>>
>> If so how do I "tell it" to the ISP to get it resolved?
>
>Who is the ISP?

Wait for the answer till the problem is resolved, fixed or a MAC!
Right now it has been escalated from the 'ticket handler' to technical
support.

--
brightside S9