Please Help - Trying to get 802.11 internet connection via YAGI antenna

I would like to BEAM my DSL connection from my office to my home via a
Yagi antenna. I have been researching this for a few days now and know
what I need to get and how to set it all up BUT... I don't know if it
is possible.

I keep reading - LINE of SITE - .... the distance I need is about 8km
(NOT miles). The land is FLAT and there are no buildings in the
way..... or at least anywhere near the hight of my office (about
50ft)... and my house is also VERY tall...(50ft also). But here is
what scares me... trees.... lots of them along the way.... big ones
too!

Does this LINE of site have to be 100% line of site or does it just
mean in the same direction. Do you think the signal can go through the
trees.

Please anyone give me some suggestions.

>Does this LINE of site have to be 100% line of site or does it just
>mean in the same direction. Do you think the signal can go through the
>trees.
>
>Please anyone give me some suggestions.

Trees are one thing you can blast through.

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010628.html
http://www.bextreme.net/wap11web/
http://www.d128.com/wireless/
http://www.craig-bartell.com/secret/..._11_Bridge.zip

> Does this LINE of site have to be 100% line of site or does it just
> mean in the same direction. Do you think the signal can go through the
> trees.

Game over. You'll need to get DSL at your home too or cut down all the
trees.

David.

> Trees are one thing you can blast through.

Well, we don't know exactly how many trees we're talking about but he
said "lots" and "big ones" so I'm going with the NO answer over that
distance.

David.

(E-Mail Removed) (Kingz#1) wrote in news:4d451e16.0406191146.1fa78362
@posting.google.com:

> I would like to BEAM my DSL connection from my office to my home via a
> Yagi antenna. I have been researching this for a few days now and know
> what I need to get and how to set it all up BUT... I don't know if it
> is possible.
>
> I keep reading - LINE of SITE - .... the distance I need is about 8km
> (NOT miles). The land is FLAT and there are no buildings in the
> way..... or at least anywhere near the hight of my office (about
> 50ft)... and my house is also VERY tall...(50ft also). But here is
> what scares me... trees.... lots of them along the way.... big ones
> too!
>
> Does this LINE of site have to be 100% line of site or does it just
> mean in the same direction. Do you think the signal can go through the
> trees.
>
> Please anyone give me some suggestions.

Well the first reply to your post had a few links with some good
information, but as I read thru each linked page, I didn't see any answer
to your question about trees (without going past the linked pages).

So the answer is yes, trees do affect LOS. LOS means just that, LOS. If
you are an antenna, you can physically see the other antenna, not
counting for distance. Nothing between the two antenna's. While it is
true that you can blow thru some trees, you probably won't be able to get
thru a forest of trees.

The WISP I used to work for would install links in the late
fall/winter/early spring before the leaves grew in and achieve good
quality signals. Then in come the leaves and levels drop. Sometimes
making them virtually un-usable. Even worse during/right after a
rainfall. Many of the NearLOS link's would drop 10 - 20 dBm only because
the leaves grew in.

So how it was explained to me was this.....as you know, microwave ovens
operate in the 2.4 GHz range. That is because this is the resonant
frequency of water. The water in the food absorb's the rf energy and it
is converted into heat. When the tree's have leaves on them, the leaves
contain a lot of water which absorbs some of the energy and the surfaces
of the leaves are curved in every which way which causes a lot of
reflecting. After a rainfall there is also water coating the outsides of
the leaves which worsen's this altogether.

So yes, some tree's can be blown through, but a mile of thick tree
canopies, IMO, would be a tough stretch for any 2.4 gHz equipment
operating within FCC rules.

>So yes, some tree's can be blown through, but a mile of thick tree
>canopies, IMO, would be a tough stretch for any 2.4 gHz equipment
>operating within FCC rules.

Could do the setup late this fall. With the way eqipment prices have
dropped you'll have made out good either way when you see what happens
come spring.

Is there any way to blast signal throught about 5 acres of dense tree
tops? They are about 30ft higher than the top of the two buildings.
Also.... There is a HUGE tower (twice as high as any tree around) that
is in clear sight of my destination building. It is in the back of
some local community center. Would it be possible to use this tower as
a middle point and relay the signal from the tower to my destination
building. If so how much do you think that they would charge me? What
is reasonable? Do I need a source of power at the tower? Would I need
any bridge there? Can I just joing the two antennas together to carry
the radiowaves. The tower already has 2 mircowave antennas on it. And
last.... where would be the best place (cheapest) to find someone who
could climb that high and point these? I'm not going to climb up that
high. How much do you think is reasonable to pay for the pointing.
Could all the pointing be done within a day?

Sorry for all the questions.


Thanks

(E-Mail Removed) (Kingz#1) wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed) om:

> Is there any way to blast signal throught about 5 acres of dense tree
> tops? They are about 30ft higher than the top of the two buildings.
> Also.... There is a HUGE tower (twice as high as any tree around) that
> is in clear sight of my destination building. It is in the back of
> some local community center. Would it be possible to use this tower as
> a middle point and relay the signal from the tower to my destination
> building. If so how much do you think that they would charge me? What
> is reasonable? Do I need a source of power at the tower? Would I need
> any bridge there? Can I just joing the two antennas together to carry
> the radiowaves.

Honestly, I've never thought of doing that. Seems that it might work. I'd
like to hear back from someone who has tried this.


>The tower already has 2 mircowave antennas on it. And
> last.... where would be the best place (cheapest) to find someone who
> could climb that high and point these? I'm not going to climb up that
> high. How much do you think is reasonable to pay for the pointing.
> Could all the pointing be done within a day?

My company was paying $1000 just to get a tower crew out to the site, plus
hourly time. In commercial application's, you've got to pay for INSURED,
experienced climber's. And might I ask, what kind of tower ? If it's a
privately owned radio tower, you MAY be able to talk to someone about it.
See if there's a sign on the building's door with a phone number. There
usually is a monthly fee involved, and some owner's charge based on how
high your antenna's are. A company may have a climber on staff.

>
> Sorry for all the questions.
>
>
> Thanks
>

On 20 Jun 2004 16:01:34 -0500, DS wrote:

> (E-Mail Removed) (Kingz#1) wrote in
> news:(E-Mail Removed) om:
>
>> Is there any way to blast signal throught about 5 acres of dense tree
>> tops? They are about 30ft higher than the top of the two buildings.
>> Also.... There is a HUGE tower (twice as high as any tree around) that
>> is in clear sight of my destination building. It is in the back of
>> some local community center. Would it be possible to use this tower as
>> a middle point and relay the signal from the tower to my destination
>> building. If so how much do you think that they would charge me? What
>> is reasonable? Do I need a source of power at the tower? Would I need
>> any bridge there? Can I just joing the two antennas together to carry
>> the radiowaves.
>
> Honestly, I've never thought of doing that. Seems that it might work. I'd
> like to hear back from someone who has tried this.
>
>>The tower already has 2 mircowave antennas on it. And
>> last.... where would be the best place (cheapest) to find someone who
>> could climb that high and point these? I'm not going to climb up that
>> high. How much do you think is reasonable to pay for the pointing.
>> Could all the pointing be done within a day?
>
> My company was paying $1000 just to get a tower crew out to the site, plus
> hourly time. In commercial application's, you've got to pay for INSURED,
> experienced climber's. And might I ask, what kind of tower ? If it's a
> privately owned radio tower, you MAY be able to talk to someone about it.
> See if there's a sign on the building's door with a phone number. There
> usually is a monthly fee involved, and some owner's charge based on how
> high your antenna's are. A company may have a climber on staff.
>
>>
>> Sorry for all the questions.
>>
>> Thanks
>>

Try:
<http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20020207.html>


--
Barry

> Is there any way to blast signal throught about 5 acres of dense tree
> tops? They are about 30ft higher than the top of the two buildings.

Well you could try taking a microwave oven apart and connect that to a
high gain antenna. In other words (legally) no.

> Could all the pointing be done within a day?

Most likely but can't help you with the other questions. I'd say that
the cost would far exceed the budget unless this is for commercial use.

David.