please help: some questions about Wireless (wifi) networks,Linksys products, range extension

Hi all -

I know this general issue has probably been discussed to death; I have
some specific questions which I'm hoping to get good advice about. I've done
a lot of on-line research on this topic and am now bewildered by the
possibilities.
General background: I have an old Victorian house, with some tin
ceilings and god-knows what else in the walls. My office is on the 2nd
floor, and this is where the cable (broadband internet) comes into the
house. That's where I have a cable modem and a Linksys Wireless router (the
kind with four ethernet ports also). Downstairs, right under the office, I
have three devices with wireless cards (wife's computer etc.) - that works
ok. I also have a Macintosh laptop (older Titanium) with an Airport card,
which works fine in my office and downstairs; however I do a lot of writing
at night and would like to be able to use the laptop to be on-line in the
back yard or on the porch (across the whole house). The wireless signal I
get in those locations is miserable and it's too hard to work that way. So,
from my reading, these are the options I can think of:

1) move the wireless router to the middle of the house. This one is tough
because it requires relocating the cable hole in the side of the house. It
might be doable, but the problem is that I can't try it to see if it helps
before actually going through with it. Also I would *really* like to be able
to help my problem without involving the cable company, taking a day off
work to wait for the guy to show up, extra holes drilled in the house, etc.

2) get a newer wireless router. Mine is a Linksys and has no version number
(it's one of the earliest ones made). Now I see v2 and even v3 on their
website. Do the newer ones have better range? Is there any difference
between v2 and v3 (if I see v2 in the store, should I get it or can I get a
v3 on-line somewhere)?

3) get a booster. I just bought a Linksys wireless booster, and attached it
to the router I have. I noticed no difference whatsoever, despite the
excellent reviews this thing got on-line. Any ideas why? I called the
Linksys tech support and they said to try different channels. Do the
channels really affect the range? And, are there better booster/amplifier
devices out there that people can recommend?

4) get a repeater. Is it possible to get a device which would just plug into
the wall (for electricity) and have no other wired connections, and would
extend my range by repeating outward whatever weak signal it got? This
sounds ideal - I could stick it somewhere on the 1st floor. Would this work?
Are there any down-sides (does it slow everything down by a lot, etc.)? What
products would you recommend? I see that the newer Linksys routers can be
used in "repeater" mode. How does this work? Is there a document on-line
which describes how to set it up that way (what channels to use, how to do
the setup, etc.)? And, can my old (v.0?) device do this? If I buy a new one,
I'm probably better off making it the primary access point (connected to the
cablemodem) and making my old one the repeater, right? Can the old one do
this (maybe a firmware upgrade is needed)?

5) get antennas. I tried buying two non-directional antennas about twice the
size of the ones which were on the unit. It hasn't made much of a
difference. If I get a directional one, does it have to be outside? If so
(people say to stick it out the window), I'll need a cable of some sort, but
I've also read that antenna cables sap range. I'm not up to making my own
antenna; can anyone recommend a decent directional antenna or reflector
which would be good?

6) maybe the problem is with the laptop. So, I tried my wife's laptop with
an Orinoco PCMCIA wireless card in it. Indeed it works much better on the
porch than the Mac. I've read that the early Macs have their antennas inside
the metal case which reduces range. I've tried the Orinoco card in my Mac
and it's somewhat better (although weirdly, not as good as it was when it
was in the PC!). But now I have this thing sticking out the side of my
laptop and it no longer fits into my laptop case. Pulling it out
necessitates a reboot (the driver I found apparently sucks) - a pain in the
ass. Does anyone know of anything I can do to my laptop to improve its
receptivity using the built-in airport card (add-on antennas or anything
like that)?

7) does 802.11g help? I don't need to go any faster; does the new .g
standard increase the range at all?

Any help on these issues would be greatly appreciated. If possible, please
cc: replies to (E-Mail Removed). Thank you in advance!

Mike Levin

In article <BB2B0C00.1089B%(E-Mail Removed)>,
Mike Levin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Hi all -
>
> I know this general issue has probably been discussed to death; I have
> some specific questions which I'm hoping to get good advice about. I've done
> a lot of on-line research on this topic and am now bewildered by the
> possibilities.
> General background: I have an old Victorian house, with some tin
> ceilings and god-knows what else in the walls. My office is on the 2nd
> floor, and this is where the cable (broadband internet) comes into the
> house. That's where I have a cable modem and a Linksys Wireless router (the
> kind with four ethernet ports also). Downstairs, right under the office, I
> have three devices with wireless cards (wife's computer etc.) - that works
> ok. I also have a Macintosh laptop (older Titanium) with an Airport card,
> which works fine in my office and downstairs; however I do a lot of writing
> at night and would like to be able to use the laptop to be on-line in the
> back yard or on the porch (across the whole house). The wireless signal I
> get in those locations is miserable and it's too hard to work that way. So,
> from my reading, these are the options I can think of:
>
> 1) move the wireless router to the middle of the house. This one is tough
> because it requires relocating the cable hole in the side of the house. It
> might be doable, but the problem is that I can't try it to see if it helps
> before actually going through with it. Also I would *really* like to be able
> to help my problem without involving the cable company, taking a day off
> work to wait for the guy to show up, extra holes drilled in the house, etc.

You do not need to mess with the cable company.

But you might consider running an ethernet cable (your own) from your
current linksys router to another part of the house. Use the attic,
closets etc... to keep the wire out of site.

At the other end, attach a 2nd Wireless Access Point device. Set the
SSID to match the first device. Set the WEP encryption key to the same
as the first device. _BUT_ use a different channel for the 2nd device
so that the first and 2nd devices to not conflict. Tell the 2nd
wireless access point to use the Linksys as its router. Do _NOT_ set up
the 2nd access point as a DHCP server. All you want is for it forward
traffic to your linksys.

This 2nd device could be in the basement, attic, or anywhere you can
snake the ethernet cable and you have power.

I have done this. I have DSL and the DSL modem is in the dining room.
I also have a router and an Airport Base Station in the dining room (the
room is actually used as my wife's office). But this location makes it
difficult to connect from the back porch. So I have a 2nd SMC wireless
unit in an upstairs bedroom which is on the opposite side of the house.

The ethernet cable goes down the wall (foot and a half) into the
basement. Across the basement under a linin closet. Through the floor
into the linin closet up the wall into a linin closet just above it on
the 2nd floor, through the linin closet wall into the back bedroom
closet where it attaches to the SMC wireless unit.

I have very good whole house coverage in any room and outside.

> 2) get a newer wireless router. Mine is a Linksys and has no version number
> (it's one of the earliest ones made). Now I see v2 and even v3 on their
> website. Do the newer ones have better range? Is there any difference
> between v2 and v3 (if I see v2 in the store, should I get it or can I get a
> v3 on-line somewhere)?

Just changing the wireless access point most likely will not help much.
Some units may broadcast better than others, but with all the walls you
have to go through and the TiBook having bad WiFi reception, I don't
think it will really help.

But if you can return the unit without costing you anything, you could
give this a try.

> 3) get a booster. I just bought a Linksys wireless booster, and attached it
> to the router I have. I noticed no difference whatsoever, despite the
> excellent reviews this thing got on-line. Any ideas why? I called the
> Linksys tech support and they said to try different channels. Do the
> channels really affect the range? And, are there better booster/amplifier
> devices out there that people can recommend?

I suspect that unless you change the location, the basic problem of your
house and the TiBook will not get much better.

> 4) get a repeater. Is it possible to get a device which would just plug into
> the wall (for electricity) and have no other wired connections, and would
> extend my range by repeating outward whatever weak signal it got? This
> sounds ideal - I could stick it somewhere on the 1st floor. Would this work?
> Are there any down-sides (does it slow everything down by a lot, etc.)? What
> products would you recommend? I see that the newer Linksys routers can be
> used in "repeater" mode. How does this work? Is there a document on-line
> which describes how to set it up that way (what channels to use, how to do
> the setup, etc.)? And, can my old (v.0?) device do this? If I buy a new one,
> I'm probably better off making it the primary access point (connected to the
> cablemodem) and making my old one the repeater, right? Can the old one do
> this (maybe a firmware upgrade is needed)?

I'm fairly sure that some of the newer Airport Base Stations can forward
traffic via WiFi so that you can have an extended network. But verify
before you buy. The same may be true for other WiFi vendors. Do some
investigating on their web sites (linksys, d-link, SMC, Netgear, etc...).

> 5) get antennas. I tried buying two non-directional antennas about twice the
> size of the ones which were on the unit. It hasn't made much of a
> difference. If I get a directional one, does it have to be outside? If so
> (people say to stick it out the window), I'll need a cable of some sort, but
> I've also read that antenna cables sap range. I'm not up to making my own
> antenna; can anyone recommend a decent directional antenna or reflector
> which would be good?
>
> 6) maybe the problem is with the laptop. So, I tried my wife's laptop with
> an Orinoco PCMCIA wireless card in it. Indeed it works much better on the
> porch than the Mac. I've read that the early Macs have their antennas inside
> the metal case which reduces range. I've tried the Orinoco card in my Mac
> and it's somewhat better (although weirdly, not as good as it was when it
> was in the PC!). But now I have this thing sticking out the side of my
> laptop and it no longer fits into my laptop case. Pulling it out
> necessitates a reboot (the driver I found apparently sucks) - a pain in the
> ass. Does anyone know of anything I can do to my laptop to improve its
> receptivity using the built-in airport card (add-on antennas or anything
> like that)?

There has been much discussion about the TiBook and its short WiFi range.

Bob Harris

> 7) does 802.11g help? I don't need to go any faster; does the new .g
> standard increase the range at all?
>
> Any help on these issues would be greatly appreciated. If possible, please
> cc: replies to (E-Mail Removed). Thank you in advance!
>
> Mike Levin
>

"Mike Levin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:BB2B0C00.1089B%(E-Mail Removed)...

> General background: I have an old Victorian house, with some tin
> ceilings and god-knows what else in the walls. My office is on the 2nd

As I mentioned in a prior post, this sounds very similar to my house in
which I have installed a similar wireless network.


> 1) move the wireless router to the middle of the house. This one is tough
> because it requires relocating the cable hole in the side of the house. It
> might be doable, but the problem is that I can't try it to see if it helps
> before actually going through with it. Also I would *really* like to be
able


Sure you can (and should) first try it without actually relocating your
cable modem. If you unplug your cable modem and move your router to the
middle of the house, you will not have Internet access but you will
nonetheless be able to use your network to transfer files, which will let
you determine how well this works. In fact, this could well be your best
plan of all so that you are certain where to relocate the cable modem.

Although I have the wireless network now working well in my house, I
probably spent 2-3 hours experimenting with various locations for the
wireless router until deciding on a permanent location. It is sensitive
enough that there is literally only one half of one bedroom in which I could
place the router and signal booster to provide coverage throughout the whole
house. And although I can now get 500kbps or greater Internet access
reliably anywhere in the house, it is also true that in some locations in
the house this reliable fast access nonetheless is received with a signal
strength of "poor." But its performance is excellent nonetheless so I am
not complaining.

Also, are you absolutely commited to using a cable modem? If DSL is
avaialble, the router could be anywhere you have a phone line. But of
course that could be a significant commitment of time and expense to switch
from a cable modem to DSL.


> and it's somewhat better (although weirdly, not as good as it was when it
> was in the PC!). But now I have this thing sticking out the side of my
> laptop and it no longer fits into my laptop case. Pulling it out


Yes, I have found that a PCMCIA wireless card works better than a
built-inWi-Fi antenna. In fact, although my personal laptop works very well
throughout my house with its built-in Wi-Fi antenna, another IDENTICAL
laptop computer (a Presario 2100) will not pick up the Wi-Fi signal in the
far reaches of the house with its buil-in Wi-Fi antenna but does just fine
with a Linksys Ver 3 PCMCIA card. If that is what it takes to make it work,
I do not think it is a big deal to take out the PCMCIA card when traveling
with the laptop.

--
Richard Kaplan
(E-Mail Removed)
www.flyimc.com

> Sure you can (and should) first try it without actually relocating your
> cable modem. If you unplug your cable modem and move your router to the
> middle of the house, you will not have Internet access but you will
> nonetheless be able to use your network to transfer files, which will let
> you determine how well this works. In fact, this could well be your best
> plan of all so that you are certain where to relocate the cable modem.

good idea! I'll give it a shot.

> Yes, I have found that a PCMCIA wireless card works better than a
> built-inWi-Fi antenna. In fact, although my personal laptop works very well
> throughout my house with its built-in Wi-Fi antenna, another IDENTICAL
> laptop computer (a Presario 2100) will not pick up the Wi-Fi signal in the
> far reaches of the house with its buil-in Wi-Fi antenna but does just fine
> with a Linksys Ver 3 PCMCIA card. If that is what it takes to make it work,
> I do not think it is a big deal to take out the PCMCIA card when traveling
> with the laptop.

pulling the card out is not a big deal. The problem is that the driver is
crappy and requires a reboot every time the card is taken out and
re-inserted (the machine does not see it until you restart).

Mike

"Mike Levin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:BB2B95BB.10AD3%(E-Mail Removed)...

> pulling the card out is not a big deal. The problem is that the driver
is
> crappy and requires a reboot every time the card is taken out and
> re-inserted (the machine does not see it until you restart).


Can the laptop handle Windows XP? Windows XP is pretty graceful at handling
hot removal/insertion of PCMCIA cards, much better than Win 95 or Win 98.

--
Richard Kaplan
(E-Mail Removed)
www.flyimc.com

in article 46ca761f0efa5cfe70805fbdd24c15ab@TeraNews, Richard Kaplan at
(E-Mail Removed) wrote on 7/4/03 10:26 PM:


> "Mike Levin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:BB2B95BB.10AD3%(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>> pulling the card out is not a big deal. The problem is that the driver
> is
>> crappy and requires a reboot every time the card is taken out and
>> re-inserted (the machine does not see it until you restart).
>
>
> Can the laptop handle Windows XP? Windows XP is pretty graceful at handling
> hot removal/insertion of PCMCIA cards, much better than Win 95 or Win 98.

Nope - it's a Macintosh laptop; a very nice machine which works great with
the built-in Airport card. The Orinoco card needs special drivers which I
think aren't optimal...

Mike

Check out this link.
http://kb.linksys.com/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientID=1808584&QuestionText=befw11s 4%20wap11&SelectName1=&advquery=%5bs%5d%5bRank%2c% 2050%3a%5bSum%3a%20befw11s4%20wap11%5d%5bMerge%3a% 20%5bThesaurus%3a%20befw11s4%20wap11%5d%5d%5d&info base=linksysrev.nfo&record={44D}&softpage=IKW_ENU_ JDocView

and look into the linksys WAP11 help under Access Point Mode.
HTH
Tommie

Bob Harris <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<harris-(E-Mail Removed)>...
> In article <BB2B0C00.1089B%(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Mike Levin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > Hi all -
> >
> > I know this general issue has probably been discussed to death; I have
> > some specific questions which I'm hoping to get good advice about. I've done
> > a lot of on-line research on this topic and am now bewildered by the
> > possibilities.
> > General background: I have an old Victorian house, with some tin
> > ceilings and god-knows what else in the walls. My office is on the 2nd
> > floor, and this is where the cable (broadband internet) comes into the
> > house. That's where I have a cable modem and a Linksys Wireless router (the
> > kind with four ethernet ports also). Downstairs, right under the office, I
> > have three devices with wireless cards (wife's computer etc.) - that works
> > ok. I also have a Macintosh laptop (older Titanium) with an Airport card,
> > which works fine in my office and downstairs; however I do a lot of writing
> > at night and would like to be able to use the laptop to be on-line in the
> > back yard or on the porch (across the whole house). The wireless signal I
> > get in those locations is miserable and it's too hard to work that way. So,
> > from my reading, these are the options I can think of:
> >
> > 1) move the wireless router to the middle of the house. This one is tough
> > because it requires relocating the cable hole in the side of the house. It
> > might be doable, but the problem is that I can't try it to see if it helps
> > before actually going through with it. Also I would *really* like to be able
> > to help my problem without involving the cable company, taking a day off
> > work to wait for the guy to show up, extra holes drilled in the house, etc.
>
> You do not need to mess with the cable company.
>
> But you might consider running an ethernet cable (your own) from your
> current linksys router to another part of the house. Use the attic,
> closets etc... to keep the wire out of site.
>
> At the other end, attach a 2nd Wireless Access Point device. Set the
> SSID to match the first device. Set the WEP encryption key to the same
> as the first device. _BUT_ use a different channel for the 2nd device
> so that the first and 2nd devices to not conflict. Tell the 2nd
> wireless access point to use the Linksys as its router. Do _NOT_ set up
> the 2nd access point as a DHCP server. All you want is for it forward
> traffic to your linksys.
>
> This 2nd device could be in the basement, attic, or anywhere you can
> snake the ethernet cable and you have power.
>
> I have done this. I have DSL and the DSL modem is in the dining room.
> I also have a router and an Airport Base Station in the dining room (the
> room is actually used as my wife's office). But this location makes it
> difficult to connect from the back porch. So I have a 2nd SMC wireless
> unit in an upstairs bedroom which is on the opposite side of the house.
>
> The ethernet cable goes down the wall (foot and a half) into the
> basement. Across the basement under a linin closet. Through the floor
> into the linin closet up the wall into a linin closet just above it on
> the 2nd floor, through the linin closet wall into the back bedroom
> closet where it attaches to the SMC wireless unit.
>
> I have very good whole house coverage in any room and outside.
>
> > 2) get a newer wireless router. Mine is a Linksys and has no version number
> > (it's one of the earliest ones made). Now I see v2 and even v3 on their
> > website. Do the newer ones have better range? Is there any difference
> > between v2 and v3 (if I see v2 in the store, should I get it or can I get a
> > v3 on-line somewhere)?
>
> Just changing the wireless access point most likely will not help much.
> Some units may broadcast better than others, but with all the walls you
> have to go through and the TiBook having bad WiFi reception, I don't
> think it will really help.
>
> But if you can return the unit without costing you anything, you could
> give this a try.
>
> > 3) get a booster. I just bought a Linksys wireless booster, and attached it
> > to the router I have. I noticed no difference whatsoever, despite the
> > excellent reviews this thing got on-line. Any ideas why? I called the
> > Linksys tech support and they said to try different channels. Do the
> > channels really affect the range? And, are there better booster/amplifier
> > devices out there that people can recommend?
>
> I suspect that unless you change the location, the basic problem of your
> house and the TiBook will not get much better.
>
> > 4) get a repeater. Is it possible to get a device which would just plug into
> > the wall (for electricity) and have no other wired connections, and would
> > extend my range by repeating outward whatever weak signal it got? This
> > sounds ideal - I could stick it somewhere on the 1st floor. Would this work?
> > Are there any down-sides (does it slow everything down by a lot, etc.)? What
> > products would you recommend? I see that the newer Linksys routers can be
> > used in "repeater" mode. How does this work? Is there a document on-line
> > which describes how to set it up that way (what channels to use, how to do
> > the setup, etc.)? And, can my old (v.0?) device do this? If I buy a new one,
> > I'm probably better off making it the primary access point (connected to the
> > cablemodem) and making my old one the repeater, right? Can the old one do
> > this (maybe a firmware upgrade is needed)?
>
> I'm fairly sure that some of the newer Airport Base Stations can forward
> traffic via WiFi so that you can have an extended network. But verify
> before you buy. The same may be true for other WiFi vendors. Do some
> investigating on their web sites (linksys, d-link, SMC, Netgear, etc...).
>
> > 5) get antennas. I tried buying two non-directional antennas about twice the
> > size of the ones which were on the unit. It hasn't made much of a
> > difference. If I get a directional one, does it have to be outside? If so
> > (people say to stick it out the window), I'll need a cable of some sort, but
> > I've also read that antenna cables sap range. I'm not up to making my own
> > antenna; can anyone recommend a decent directional antenna or reflector
> > which would be good?
> >
> > 6) maybe the problem is with the laptop. So, I tried my wife's laptop with
> > an Orinoco PCMCIA wireless card in it. Indeed it works much better on the
> > porch than the Mac. I've read that the early Macs have their antennas inside
> > the metal case which reduces range. I've tried the Orinoco card in my Mac
> > and it's somewhat better (although weirdly, not as good as it was when it
> > was in the PC!). But now I have this thing sticking out the side of my
> > laptop and it no longer fits into my laptop case. Pulling it out
> > necessitates a reboot (the driver I found apparently sucks) - a pain in the
> > ass. Does anyone know of anything I can do to my laptop to improve its
> > receptivity using the built-in airport card (add-on antennas or anything
> > like that)?
>
> There has been much discussion about the TiBook and its short WiFi range.
>
> Bob Harris
>
> > 7) does 802.11g help? I don't need to go any faster; does the new .g
> > standard increase the range at all?
> >
> > Any help on these issues would be greatly appreciated. If possible, please
> > cc: replies to (E-Mail Removed). Thank you in advance!
> >
> > Mike Levin
> >