PDC - BDC Conflicts

Hello to all,

I have a problem with a BDC (windows 2000 server) who does not see that the
PDC (SBS 2000) is back on-line. I have got my PDC crashed,and for some
reason the NT-Mirror had stopped some time ago. I have taken the PDC out of
the network, and the BDC took over the security with no problem. I have put
my (early stopped) mirror disk as master and restored alle backups so that
the PDC is ok. I have put the PDC back in the network and had to disconnect
(temporary set them to workgroup) all workstations and servers from the
domain and then reconnect them to the domain. So far so good until I tried
to do the same with my BDC but he keeps saying that there is no PDC so he
can not disconnect and he is not trusted by the domain any more. I cant stop
the AD becourse the server is BDC etc.. I'm turning in a round so my BDC in
no more reachable by the domain and vise versa.

Is there a tool (or a way) to force the BDC server to stop from thinking he
has to stay a domain on his own so that I can downgrade the BDC to a simple
server, take is 'out of the domain' and reconnect it to the 'new domain'

Many tanks in advance

Jean Paul

you need to remove AD from the BDC using DCPromo, remove it completely from
the domain, turning it in to a stand alone server, rejoin it to the domain.
run adprep on your SBS, then run DCPromo on your BDC again to install AD and
make it a domain controller, once its rejoined as a DC make it a global
catalog again.

"Jean Paul Mertens" wrote:

> Hello to all,
>
> I have a problem with a BDC (windows 2000 server) who does not see that the
> PDC (SBS 2000) is back on-line. I have got my PDC crashed,and for some
> reason the NT-Mirror had stopped some time ago. I have taken the PDC out of
> the network, and the BDC took over the security with no problem. I have put
> my (early stopped) mirror disk as master and restored alle backups so that
> the PDC is ok. I have put the PDC back in the network and had to disconnect
> (temporary set them to workgroup) all workstations and servers from the
> domain and then reconnect them to the domain. So far so good until I tried
> to do the same with my BDC but he keeps saying that there is no PDC so he
> can not disconnect and he is not trusted by the domain any more. I cant stop
> the AD becourse the server is BDC etc.. I'm turning in a round so my BDC in
> no more reachable by the domain and vise versa.
>
> Is there a tool (or a way) to force the BDC server to stop from thinking he
> has to stay a domain on his own so that I can downgrade the BDC to a simple
> server, take is 'out of the domain' and reconnect it to the 'new domain'
>
> Many tanks in advance
>
> Jean Paul
>
>
>
>

"Jean Paul Mertens" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hello to all,
>
> I have a problem with a BDC (windows 2000 server) who does not see that
> the PDC (SBS 2000) is back on-line.

1. There is no such thing as a PDC and BDC in Windows 2000 or newer. There
is a PDC "role" but it is not the same thing.

2. SBS cannot join an existing Domain, so having a second DC in an SBS
controlled system is almost [but not quite] totally worthless.
a. Rebuilding SBS and giving it the same Domain name as before only
creates two *different* domains that just happen to have the same name.
b. The other DC can not see the SBS as being back online on the original
Domain because the SBS is not back online in the orignal Domain. It is a
completely new SBS on a completely new Domain that just happens to use the
same name.

The proper way to have fault tolerance and recoverability with SBS is by
using System-State Backups for the software side and RAID for the hardware
side. The RAID itself needs to be done in Hardware and not in Windows. IMO,
disaster recovery with SBS is itself a disaster and is why I would never
want to run SBS.

There have been third-party non-Microsoft solutions "invented" to deal with
this. You may have to ask in a SBS Group to find details on that. I don''t
have any links or information for that myself.

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

Please explain why you say SBS can't join an existing domain? There is a KB
that gives the steps to do so:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/884453

"Phillip Windell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Jean Paul Mertens" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Hello to all,
>>
>> I have a problem with a BDC (windows 2000 server) who does not see that
>> the PDC (SBS 2000) is back on-line.
>
> 1. There is no such thing as a PDC and BDC in Windows 2000 or newer.
> There is a PDC "role" but it is not the same thing.
>
> 2. SBS cannot join an existing Domain, so having a second DC in an SBS
> controlled system is almost [but not quite] totally worthless.
> a. Rebuilding SBS and giving it the same Domain name as before only
> creates two *different* domains that just happen to have the same name.
> b. The other DC can not see the SBS as being back online on the
> original Domain because the SBS is not back online in the orignal Domain.
> It is a completely new SBS on a completely new Domain that just happens to
> use the same name.
>
> The proper way to have fault tolerance and recoverability with SBS is by
> using System-State Backups for the software side and RAID for the hardware
> side. The RAID itself needs to be done in Hardware and not in Windows.
> IMO, disaster recovery with SBS is itself a disaster and is why I would
> never want to run SBS.
>
> There have been third-party non-Microsoft solutions "invented" to deal
> with this. You may have to ask in a SBS Group to find details on that. I
> don''t have any links or information for that myself.
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
> www.wandtv.com
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
> Microsoft, or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>

Phillip
Actually with SBS 2003 (and I see no reason why it wouldn't work with 2000, but the document was written for SBS 2003) you can install to an existing Active Directory network

--
Cris Hanna [SBS-MVP]
-------------------------------------------------
Microsoft MVPs
Independent Experts (MVPs do not work for MS)
Real World Answers
---------------------------------------------------------
Please do not contact me directly regarding issues

"Phillip Windell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
"Jean Paul Mertens" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hello to all,
>
> I have a problem with a BDC (windows 2000 server) who does not see that
> the PDC (SBS 2000) is back on-line.

1. There is no such thing as a PDC and BDC in Windows 2000 or newer. There
is a PDC "role" but it is not the same thing.

2. SBS cannot join an existing Domain, so having a second DC in an SBS
controlled system is almost [but not quite] totally worthless.
a. Rebuilding SBS and giving it the same Domain name as before only
creates two *different* domains that just happen to have the same name.
b. The other DC can not see the SBS as being back online on the original
Domain because the SBS is not back online in the orignal Domain. It is a
completely new SBS on a completely new Domain that just happens to use the
same name.

The proper way to have fault tolerance and recoverability with SBS is by
using System-State Backups for the software side and RAID for the hardware
side. The RAID itself needs to be done in Hardware and not in Windows. IMO,
disaster recovery with SBS is itself a disaster and is why I would never
want to run SBS.

There have been third-party non-Microsoft solutions "invented" to deal with
this. You may have to ask in a SBS Group to find details on that. I don''t
have any links or information for that myself.

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

I've always been told by everyone that it wouldn't. I don't run it myself. I
didn't know that article existed,...I was under the impression that SBS did
not even posses "dcpromo.exe"

What about SBS2000?

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------


"Steve" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Please explain why you say SBS can't join an existing domain? There is a
> KB that gives the steps to do so:
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/884453
>
> "Phillip Windell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> "Jean Paul Mertens" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> Hello to all,
>>>
>>> I have a problem with a BDC (windows 2000 server) who does not see that
>>> the PDC (SBS 2000) is back on-line.
>>
>> 1. There is no such thing as a PDC and BDC in Windows 2000 or newer.
>> There is a PDC "role" but it is not the same thing.
>>
>> 2. SBS cannot join an existing Domain, so having a second DC in an SBS
>> controlled system is almost [but not quite] totally worthless.
>> a. Rebuilding SBS and giving it the same Domain name as before only
>> creates two *different* domains that just happen to have the same name.
>> b. The other DC can not see the SBS as being back online on the
>> original Domain because the SBS is not back online in the orignal Domain.
>> It is a completely new SBS on a completely new Domain that just happens
>> to use the same name.
>>
>> The proper way to have fault tolerance and recoverability with SBS is by
>> using System-State Backups for the software side and RAID for the
>> hardware side. The RAID itself needs to be done in Hardware and not in
>> Windows. IMO, disaster recovery with SBS is itself a disaster and is why
>> I would never want to run SBS.
>>
>> There have been third-party non-Microsoft solutions "invented" to deal
>> with this. You may have to ask in a SBS Group to find details on that. I
>> don''t have any links or information for that myself.
>>
>> --
>> Phillip Windell
>> www.wandtv.com
>>
>> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
>> Microsoft, or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>
>

Sorry,
Steve posted an article on this. I never knew that was possible. I'd always
been told by others that it could not do so. I don't run it myself.
Someone came up with some kind of complex third-party thing to deal with
this stuff, and now I don't undserstand why all that was needed if SBS can
do this so easily and naturally on its own. I'm not disapointed of course,
if I ever have to deal with it then it will be easier to deal with than I
thought.

I guess this a good example why why people should not cross-post their
question all over the place and stick to the correct groups. Then they'd get
the correct answer from the right people who know best in the first place.


--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.

"Cris Hanna [SBS-MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed) t>
wrote in message news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
Phillip
Actually with SBS 2003 (and I see no reason why it wouldn't work with 2000,
but the document was written for SBS 2003) you can install to an existing
Active Directory network

--
Cris Hanna [SBS-MVP]
-------------------------------------------------
Microsoft MVPs
Independent Experts (MVPs do not work for MS)
Real World Answers
---------------------------------------------------------
Please do not contact me directly regarding issues

"Phillip Windell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
"Jean Paul Mertens" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hello to all,
>
> I have a problem with a BDC (windows 2000 server) who does not see that
> the PDC (SBS 2000) is back on-line.

1. There is no such thing as a PDC and BDC in Windows 2000 or newer. There
is a PDC "role" but it is not the same thing.

2. SBS cannot join an existing Domain, so having a second DC in an SBS
controlled system is almost [but not quite] totally worthless.
a. Rebuilding SBS and giving it the same Domain name as before only
creates two *different* domains that just happen to have the same name.
b. The other DC can not see the SBS as being back online on the original
Domain because the SBS is not back online in the orignal Domain. It is a
completely new SBS on a completely new Domain that just happens to use the
same name.

The proper way to have fault tolerance and recoverability with SBS is by
using System-State Backups for the software side and RAID for the hardware
side. The RAID itself needs to be done in Hardware and not in Windows. IMO,
disaster recovery with SBS is itself a disaster and is why I would never
want to run SBS.

There have been third-party non-Microsoft solutions "invented" to deal with
this. You may have to ask in a SBS Group to find details on that. I don''t
have any links or information for that myself.

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

As Cris says I think that SBS 2000 could also join a domain in the same way
but I haven't even thought about that version for about 4 years.

Steve

"Phillip Windell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I've always been told by everyone that it wouldn't. I don't run it myself.
> I didn't know that article existed,...I was under the impression that SBS
> did not even posses "dcpromo.exe"
>
> What about SBS2000?
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
> www.wandtv.com
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
> Microsoft, or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "Steve" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Please explain why you say SBS can't join an existing domain? There is a
>> KB that gives the steps to do so:
>>
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/884453
>>
>> "Phillip Windell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> "Jean Paul Mertens" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> Hello to all,
>>>>
>>>> I have a problem with a BDC (windows 2000 server) who does not see that
>>>> the PDC (SBS 2000) is back on-line.
>>>
>>> 1. There is no such thing as a PDC and BDC in Windows 2000 or newer.
>>> There is a PDC "role" but it is not the same thing.
>>>
>>> 2. SBS cannot join an existing Domain, so having a second DC in an SBS
>>> controlled system is almost [but not quite] totally worthless.
>>> a. Rebuilding SBS and giving it the same Domain name as before only
>>> creates two *different* domains that just happen to have the same name.
>>> b. The other DC can not see the SBS as being back online on the
>>> original Domain because the SBS is not back online in the orignal
>>> Domain. It is a completely new SBS on a completely new Domain that just
>>> happens to use the same name.
>>>
>>> The proper way to have fault tolerance and recoverability with SBS is by
>>> using System-State Backups for the software side and RAID for the
>>> hardware side. The RAID itself needs to be done in Hardware and not in
>>> Windows. IMO, disaster recovery with SBS is itself a disaster and is why
>>> I would never want to run SBS.
>>>
>>> There have been third-party non-Microsoft solutions "invented" to deal
>>> with this. You may have to ask in a SBS Group to find details on that.
>>> I don''t have any links or information for that myself.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Phillip Windell
>>> www.wandtv.com
>>>
>>> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
>>> Microsoft, or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
>>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

looking at the list of crosspost groups, it's reasonable, there is a decent
expectation of an answer from each and the list is not overly extensive.

Something's been missed in the discussion however. The 'throw the baby away'
method of DC recovery is wasteful whether the DC be an SBS or not.

Jean Paul needs to reassess/redesign his Disaster Recovery process. The
original DC should have been 'recovered' rather than 'replaced'.

and all this gaff about 'there is no PDC/BDC in 2000+ AD's' just bores me,
the FSMO role holders (though possibly distributed) are distinctly more
'primary' than 'other' DC's, correcting someone referring to 'my PDC' is
just muddying the water, it ain't factual but it's a reasonable way of
expressing the idea. I have _very_ little to do with LARGE AD's but those
several I have encountered (tens to maybe hundreds of DC's) all actually
have one server holding both forest and 'first' domain level FSMO roles, if
that ain't a PDC I don't know what it is. (I am not responsible for the
design of these AD's, so don't bother correcting me :-)

"Phillip Windell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Sorry,
> Steve posted an article on this. I never knew that was possible. I'd
> always been told by others that it could not do so. I don't run it
> myself. Someone came up with some kind of complex third-party thing to
> deal with this stuff, and now I don't undserstand why all that was needed
> if SBS can do this so easily and naturally on its own. I'm not
> disapointed of course, if I ever have to deal with it then it will be
> easier to deal with than I thought.
>
> I guess this a good example why why people should not cross-post their
> question all over the place and stick to the correct groups. Then they'd
> get the correct answer from the right people who know best in the first
> place.
>
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
> www.wandtv.com
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
> Microsoft, or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
>
> "Cris Hanna [SBS-MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed) t>
> wrote in message news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Phillip
> Actually with SBS 2003 (and I see no reason why it wouldn't work with
> 2000, but the document was written for SBS 2003) you can install to an
> existing Active Directory network
>
> --
> Cris Hanna [SBS-MVP]
> -------------------------------------------------
> Microsoft MVPs
> Independent Experts (MVPs do not work for MS)
> Real World Answers
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Please do not contact me directly regarding issues
>
> "Phillip Windell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Jean Paul Mertens" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Hello to all,
>>
>> I have a problem with a BDC (windows 2000 server) who does not see that
>> the PDC (SBS 2000) is back on-line.
>
> 1. There is no such thing as a PDC and BDC in Windows 2000 or newer.
> There
> is a PDC "role" but it is not the same thing.
>
> 2. SBS cannot join an existing Domain, so having a second DC in an SBS
> controlled system is almost [but not quite] totally worthless.
> a. Rebuilding SBS and giving it the same Domain name as before only
> creates two *different* domains that just happen to have the same name.
> b. The other DC can not see the SBS as being back online on the
> original
> Domain because the SBS is not back online in the orignal Domain. It is a
> completely new SBS on a completely new Domain that just happens to use the
> same name.
>
> The proper way to have fault tolerance and recoverability with SBS is by
> using System-State Backups for the software side and RAID for the hardware
> side. The RAID itself needs to be done in Hardware and not in Windows.
> IMO,
> disaster recovery with SBS is itself a disaster and is why I would never
> want to run SBS.
>
> There have been third-party non-Microsoft solutions "invented" to deal
> with
> this. You may have to ask in a SBS Group to find details on that. I
> don''t
> have any links or information for that myself.
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
> www.wandtv.com
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
> Microsoft,
> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>

Wally,

That is the problem, if I run DCPromo I got the answer that a domain
controller could not be contacted for the domain so he would not continue.
The message window says that I have to take out the server out of the domain
by making him member of a workgroup and then rejoin the domain. Bus as long
as AD is running on the machine I can not leave the domain (In the system
properties I can not change the identification of the computer becourse he
aims to be a domaincontroller...

and so we are back to start.

Any further ID's

Greets

Jean Paul


"Wallyb132" <(E-Mail Removed)> schreef in bericht
news:89F6566F-4C04-4409-AECC-(E-Mail Removed)...
> you need to remove AD from the BDC using DCPromo, remove it completely
> from
> the domain, turning it in to a stand alone server, rejoin it to the
> domain.
> run adprep on your SBS, then run DCPromo on your BDC again to install AD
> and
> make it a domain controller, once its rejoined as a DC make it a global
> catalog again.
>
> "Jean Paul Mertens" wrote:
>
>> Hello to all,
>>
>> I have a problem with a BDC (windows 2000 server) who does not see that
>> the
>> PDC (SBS 2000) is back on-line. I have got my PDC crashed,and for some
>> reason the NT-Mirror had stopped some time ago. I have taken the PDC out
>> of
>> the network, and the BDC took over the security with no problem. I have
>> put
>> my (early stopped) mirror disk as master and restored alle backups so
>> that
>> the PDC is ok. I have put the PDC back in the network and had to
>> disconnect
>> (temporary set them to workgroup) all workstations and servers from the
>> domain and then reconnect them to the domain. So far so good until I
>> tried
>> to do the same with my BDC but he keeps saying that there is no PDC so he
>> can not disconnect and he is not trusted by the domain any more. I cant
>> stop
>> the AD becourse the server is BDC etc.. I'm turning in a round so my BDC
>> in
>> no more reachable by the domain and vise versa.
>>
>> Is there a tool (or a way) to force the BDC server to stop from thinking
>> he
>> has to stay a domain on his own so that I can downgrade the BDC to a
>> simple
>> server, take is 'out of the domain' and reconnect it to the 'new domain'
>>
>> Many tanks in advance
>>
>> Jean Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>