Overcharged for PlusNet 8 mb business connection?

We signed up for PlusNet's 8 mb service in Nov 05. Since it was a 12
month minimum contract, we paid for a year up front.

As I recall, at the time they were encouraging people to sign up for
this service with the expectation that it would be available within a
month or two.

This was delayed and it wasn't until 18 April 2006 that the broadband
regrade to BT IPStream Max Premium was completed.

So, between Nov 05 and Apr 06 we didn't have an exchange cabable of
supporting up to 8 mb broadband.

My understanding was that customers who signed up for the 8 mb service
would be charged for the lower speed service PlusNet was offering at
the time until the date the exchange was upgraded. A futher incentive,
as I recall, was that those who had signed up to the 8mb service would
be the first to be upgraded when it became available.

However, we received no rebate and PlusNet's response is to say that
it's an "up to" 8 mb service so tough.

I realise that for customers signing up now this is true - all their
offerings are "up to" 8 mb.

Back in Nov 05 however, this wasn't the case - lower speed, lower cost
connections were available because hardly any exchanges had been
upgraded.

This is a lesson for me to take a copy of the Ts & Cs at the time of
signing up. In hindsight I could have opted for the 2 mb service and
upgraded later on.

Can anyone else recall what the situation was back in late 05?

Paul Welsh wrote:

> Back in Nov 05 however, this wasn't the case - lower speed, lower cost
> connections were available because hardly any exchanges had been
> upgraded.
>
> This is a lesson for me to take a copy of the Ts & Cs at the time of
> signing up. In hindsight I could have opted for the 2 mb service and
> upgraded later on.

How much money do you feel you have lost? What would the upgrade fee
have been.

"Richard Oliver" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Paul Welsh wrote:
>
>> Back in Nov 05 however, this wasn't the case - lower speed, lower cost
>> connections were available because hardly any exchanges had been
>> upgraded.
>>
>> This is a lesson for me to take a copy of the Ts & Cs at the time of
>> signing up. In hindsight I could have opted for the 2 mb service and
>> upgraded later on.
>
> How much money do you feel you have lost? What would the upgrade fee have
> been.

I signed up to Plusnet in Sept 05. BT Max wasn't available then and my
connection was limited to 512K (long rural line).
My daughter signed up at the same time with same conditions and tariff
(Plusnet "Plus" tariff) but being nearer to her exchange than I am to mine,
she got 2Meg.
We both paid the same tariff.
Early this year, Max became available on my exchange and Plusnet did a free
upgrade (now working at 2.5 Meg).
In short, you pay for the tariff.
The speed is what's available from BT (or LLU supplier) and shouldn't make
any difference to the price.

George

On 7 Dec 2006, "Paul Welsh" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Can anyone else recall what the situation was back in late 05?

There were many residential users paying for "up to 8 Mbps" services from
around April 2005. It was unclear when service could be available but it
was also the case (for residential users) that there were more generous
quotas given, in recognition that they were paying more. Those same
users were able to downgrade to the service at 21.99 (instead of
paying 29.99 or 39.99 for 2 Mbps or "up to 8 Mbps") as the 21.99 fee
and various other new accounts were introduced in April 2005 (AFAICR).

You might be better using the discussion area for PlusNet via
<http://www.thinkbroadband.com/> (formerly ADSLGuide) as there may be
other business account holders who also paid for a similar account.

I believe the news archive on the main site (ie before using the discussion
section which is still using the adslguide.org.uk domain) will show that
general advice was not to use the higher cost, "up to 8 Mbps" accounts
until service was actually available.

It was a matter of record that criticism was made of the policies PlusNet
had at the time, to not tell existing customers of alternative (cheaper)
accounts. It's much the same as the way some banks have dropped interest
rates for existing savers but advertise new, attractive, rates for new
customers. It's very much down to the customer to keep abreast of what
accounts exist, whether a service provider is giving them the best value
for money, etc.

I actually left the service on principle when they had "FREE" connection
without making it very clear that it was a "you stay [for five years],
we pay" arrangement. Criticisms were made via USENET and websites and
they did change the way that this aspect was promoted. They probably
did not, however, send mail to all customers at the earliest possible
time to tell users of lower cost accounts. Since you joined in the
November much of the discussion would have already taken place, so it
is a shame that any researching you did failed to spot complaints about
the "up to 8 Mbps" accounts, the relatively higher charges which applied,
and the availability of cheaper accounts giving the same speed to users.

It seems very much a "buyer beware" situation. Unfortunately you will
see no comments as feedback about the news items in the archive, that
is because the news archive dates back 5+ years but the ability to
add comments has only in recent days/weeks become available, since a
major revamp (and renaming to ThinkBroadband) of the website/features,
so there will unfortunately be no notes dating back to the news items.
Also, discussions are "pruned" so only 6 to 12 months of material is
online, so comments dating back to the spring of 2005 when the main
changes to accounts came into effect will not be online there.

Other places to look would be on the PlusNet discussion boards via the
PlusNet "Member centre" login, and there may also be business users who
are in a similar position at <http://usergroup.plus.net/forums/> but to
signup you need to be a customer (ie one can sign up on a home PN link
and post from a work non-PN connection but cannot sign up to use the
forum from a non-PN connection).

On 7 Dec 2006, "George Weston" wrote:

>Early this year, Max became available on my exchange and Plusnet did a free
>upgrade (now working at 2.5 Meg).

The upgrades were free because from 2000 kbps to DSL Max was free from BTW
for any user. A fee (5+VAT) applied for 500 or 1000 -> DSL Max and a
number of other combinations ( eg 'home' to 'business' - ie IPStream
Max Premium [=business] instead of IPStream Max [=home user] )

>In short, you pay for the tariff. The speed is what's available from BT
>(or LLU supplier) and shouldn't make any difference to the price.

But things were very different when "up to 4" and "up to 8" accounts were
launched - see http://preview.tinyurl.com/ycr3dx (goes to TB site).

Richard Oliver wrote:
> How much money do you feel you have lost? What would the upgrade fee
> have been.

About £30 per month for 5 months I suppose. Not enough to warrant
spending much time worrying about.

Paul Welsh wrote:
> Richard Oliver wrote:
>> How much money do you feel you have lost? What would the upgrade fee
>> have been.
>
> About £30 per month for 5 months I suppose. Not enough to warrant
> spending much time worrying about.

I don't know - dictate a letter to your secretary - then dine out on the
credit note. They tend to listen slightly better to business complaints.

In article <(E-Mail Removed) .com>,
Paul Welsh <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>We signed up for PlusNet's 8 mb service in Nov 05. Since it was a 12
>month minimum contract, we paid for a year up front.
>
>As I recall, at the time they were encouraging people to sign up for
>this service with the expectation that it would be available within a
>month or two.
>
>This was delayed and it wasn't until 18 April 2006 that the broadband
>regrade to BT IPStream Max Premium was completed.
>
>So, between Nov 05 and Apr 06 we didn't have an exchange cabable of
>supporting up to 8 mb broadband.
>
>My understanding was that customers who signed up for the 8 mb service
>would be charged for the lower speed service PlusNet was offering at
>the time until the date the exchange was upgraded. A futher incentive,
>as I recall, was that those who had signed up to the 8mb service would
>be the first to be upgraded when it became available.
>
>However, we received no rebate and PlusNet's response is to say that
>it's an "up to" 8 mb service so tough. (snip)

You and countless others were conned by this particular PlusNet trick
which was to pre-sell a vaporware product and then keep those customers
paying the high "queue-jump" tariff for months on end without receiving
any benefit for it whatsoever as they could have had exactly the same
level of service for just £21.99 per month.

Eventually (not at the outset) PlusNet announced in September 2005 that
one of the benefits of this vaporware product was a higher data
allowance than the £21.99 product - but no-one who signed up prior to
September 2005 knew anything about such a benefit and neither did the
majority of people who signed up after this new benefit announcement
which was made on the PlusNet web forum...so the vast majority of the
conned customers had no benefit at all from PlusNet's "queue-jump"
Up-to 4/8MB vaporware offering.

It was anyway a farce since the majority of people who signed up months
in advance for the queue-jump speed bump never got any preference when
the exchanges were eventually upgraded. They waited in line for the
extra speed just like people who hadn't paid up front.

There have been some ugly discussions about it. The ADSLGuide forum
archives aren't retained for that period but you can read plenty here
(log in with both username and password as "guest")

http://portal.plus.net/central/forum...4&postdays=0&p
ostorder=asc&start=0

Under pressure, PlusNet eventually made a concession to those whose
lines were incapable of supporting the new speeds when they came in and
the details of that refund are here:

http://portal.plus.net/central/forum...ic.php?t=42893

with the resulting discussion here:

http://portal.plus.net/central/forum...7&highlight=up
to+refund

If you knew nothing about the additional data allowance - or even if
you knew about it but didn't want or use it - you are probably entitled
to a refund if you can be bothered to pursue it. Unfortunately, too
many conned PlusNet customers just walk away leaving PlusNet laughing
all the way to the bank.

It sounds like you paid 6 months at £39.99 when you could have been
paying £21.99 for the same service - and that's a difference of £108.

I urge you to risk £30 on a Small Claims Court action which you can do
conveniently online at http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk -- and not walk
away from it as others have done.

Stan

On 07 Dec 2006, Stan The Man <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>the majority of people who signed up months in advance for the queue-
>jump speed bump never got any preference when the exchanges were
>eventually upgraded. They waited in line for the extra speed
>just like people who hadn't paid up front.

I think the majority of those who had upgrades in April were from the
"up to 4 Mbps" and "up to 8 Mbps" section of users, followed by those
on PAYG accounts (because of a promise made in October 2005). BICBW.

I'm not going to dredge around in newsgroups or through discussions
on websites to 'prove' it, but if anyone else happens to know, it
may be useful, simply for clarity, as this is an area where PN
seemed to me to do what they had said they would (there was quite
a bit of argument from those on 21.99 accounts when PAYG got ahead
of them in the upgrade queue, and PAYG weren't being processed until
May and June, from memory, so with only 20,000 on PAYG, one could
wonder why they weren't being done during April (had it not been
for the priority assigned for those who had been guaranteed it
would be them first - ie paying 29.99 or 39.99!)

I write as a PAYG user who waited for that DSL Max upgrade, but it
might also be useful to know when Stan stopped using PN ADSL...

On 7 Dec 2006 01:36:15 -0800, Paul Welsh <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> We signed up for PlusNet's 8 mb service in Nov 05. Since it was a 12
> month minimum contract, we paid for a year up front.
>
> As I recall, at the time they were encouraging people to sign up for
> this service with the expectation that it would be available within a
> month or two.
>
> This was delayed and it wasn't until 18 April 2006 that the broadband
> regrade to BT IPStream Max Premium was completed.
>
> So, between Nov 05 and Apr 06 we didn't have an exchange cabable of
> supporting up to 8 mb broadband.
>
> My understanding was that customers who signed up for the 8 mb service
> would be charged for the lower speed service PlusNet was offering at
> the time until the date the exchange was upgraded. A futher incentive,
> as I recall, was that those who had signed up to the 8mb service would
> be the first to be upgraded when it became available.
>
> However, we received no rebate and PlusNet's response is to say that
> it's an "up to" 8 mb service so tough.
>
> I realise that for customers signing up now this is true - all their
> offerings are "up to" 8 mb.
>
> Back in Nov 05 however, this wasn't the case - lower speed, lower cost
> connections were available because hardly any exchanges had been
> upgraded.
>
> This is a lesson for me to take a copy of the Ts & Cs at the time of
> signing up. In hindsight I could have opted for the 2 mb service and
> upgraded later on.
>
> Can anyone else recall what the situation was back in late 05?
>

Hi,

I presume you signed up for one of the old "up to 8Mbps" accounts. These
were sold as being provided at 2Mbps with an upgrade to the 8Mbps product
as soon as it was available in your area. Prior to the beginning of the
bulk regrade process we said that for those customers that had been paying
for the up to 8Mbps service who after the regrade couldn't get the faster
speed and who hadn't exceeded the usage allowances would be eligible for a
refund. Details are available at:

http://www.plus.net/features/news/ma...wsletter.shtml

If your line's sync'd below 4Mbps then please raise a ticket and we can
look into this for you.


--
| Dave Tomlinson Broadband Solutions For
| Customer Support Home & Business
| PlusNet plc @ http://www.plus.net
+ ----- My Referrals - It pays to recommend PlusNet -----